Community Edition anyone interested?

[wanderer]

i am going to try to build an iso
with woof debian
this makes the most sense to me at this time
if things change
we can also make changes

hopefully i will be able to do this
i will start actually downloading things tomorrow
and will work over the weekend
i will report back to the forum
on my progress

i'm sure i will need a lot of help
so any help or any kind of input is appreciated

remember our goal
is just to work on a new puppy together
as a community
so that everyone will have an opportunity to participate
the fact that you are reading this forum
means our goal is being accomplished

thanks to everyone
and i'm sure i will be begging for help soon

wanderer

[mavrothal]

Guys, we're starting a distro war.

I do not see any war. I believe we settled on Debian-stable (we do not need any excitement now )

On a different but related note. I can see that Playdayz is arround these days...

[gcmartin]

... Are *you* willing to do it? Is Puppy worth enough of your time to spend on fundraising efforts?

???

Maybe you miss-understood. I already agreed to help with your suggestion. In fact, I think it's a good idea.

Thoughts.

[mavrothal]

... Are *you* willing to do it? Is Puppy worth enough of your time to spend on fundraising efforts?

???

Maybe you miss-understood. I already agreed to help with your suggestion.

gcmartin,
3000 post of no code or debug contributions but plenty of ideas on how Puppy should develop, suggest that you can really mount a campaign.
Put this ability into good use to produce a tangible beneficial outcome for Puppy yourself.
I think that $100,000 is probably too high of a goal but even $10,000 can go a long way in puppy development.
So, as you suggest in your signature "Get ACTIVE"

[zigbert]

Debian or Slackware - who cares?
The one who leads the project will decide.

[wanderer]

hey everyone

to get our project going
i'm going to try to build a woof debian iso
over the weekend

i dont have any experience with woof
so i dont know if i can get woof
to do what i want it to do
or even if i can get woof to work for me
however i will keep trying until i get it done

i am reading the info
on the forum
and on the woof page
but if there is anyone
who can give me advice
or help
that would be great

i will keep the forum posted
about my progress

wanderer

[anikin]

I believe we should write Woof 3 as a community effort, but we must prove we can build something usable using today's Woof first.

Woof 2 has many drawbacks and I feel it's way too old-fashioned, bloated, x86-centric and encumbered with legacy code. However, it's too early to change this situation.

May I humbly ask you, guys to do one thing before you proceed with the actual work.

Please, get xorgwizard out of woof and let Puppy boot straight to X/desktop - like all other OSes/distros do. No flag-sticking, no sniffing around users' computers - a transparent startup routine. Please, take a step, that is long overdue.

Thank you.

.

[greengeek]

I think we mustn't give up the alternative to Woof, full independence, in case the community release model fails.

+ 2

[wanderer]

the way i see it there are (at least)
2 ways to make the iso

1. the woof way
i assume this is pretty complex
and limited by the scripts
i dont know but we will see

2. the "build from parts" way
this is the way i like to do it
as you not the script are moving the parts

i am going to try a hybrid approach

i will try to make a series of small isos with woof
for each stage of the process of building the iso

stage 1 ramdrive command line only
stage 2 basic x image x jwm rxvt only
stage 3 basic apps image emelfm rox leafpad
stage 4 basic internet image dhcpd dillo
stage 5 web browser and media player image
stage 5 other apps that we want image

we can then tear these images apart and streamline them

and when we understand the basics of woof
we can modify it so that it is straighforward and minimal

i will start doing this today

any thoughts ?

wanderer

[Iguleder]

I'd go for a more traditional selection of applications, to appeal more to today's Puppy fans

While you take the Woof path, I'm exploring the other way around - total independence. I have a bootable, 13 MB ISO for x86_64, with the latest Linux 3.10.x (LTS), which recognizes all my hardware, without BusyBox, toybox, udev and systemd ... but lacks a graphical desktop. The whole thing can be built automatically for 32 or 64 bit, so 64 bit is the main focus right now.

Today, I got the good old Xfbdev to run (940 KB, it's tiny!) on this thing and ported OpenBSD 5.4's window manager to Linux, since I want to use it as the window manager. I'm stuck with a wild bug which causes all requests to the X server to fail, but once I get it to work, we can easily build a small 20-25 MB Puppy with a barebones graphical desktop - something similar to Tiny Core, but better, since the Tiny Core developers don't have a tiny X server for their 64 bit flavor - they're stuck with an old, 32-bit Xvesa binary.

EDIT: forgot to ask. Am I the only one who misses the 4.2.1 days, times when everything "just works", even when it's a community release, despite of the fact Puppy doesn't uses pre-made packages from another distro? It's hard to be on your own in the Linux world (i.e think of Fuduntu and SolusOS), but I really like Tiny Core's way of doing things and I think we can learn a lot from it, especially in the area of community-maintained packages

[cthisbear]

"Am I the only one who misses the 4.2.1 days, times when everything
"just works","

Ah! yes. Those were the Days my friend.

Cheers to you Mr Iggy.....Chris.

[jpeps]

"

Ah! yes. Those were the Days my friend.

Cheers to you Mr Iggy.....Chris.

Yes, before modern applications that utilize current available, abundant, cheap resources.

[Geoffrey]

Just asking, is this something that is to be usable by anyone, or just a play thing for geeks, it's beginning to sound very antiquated.

cheers Geoff

[gcmartin]

For those who suggest raising money for development, how about some suggestions to what would make you comfortable donating money? Have you done so to an organization before? What do you feel is going to be a driver for donations to this project, as you suggest?

Again, if you feel I can help, you must do your parts so that this get off the ground in the right way where most everyone can envision benefit and most importantly ... TRUST. Right?

[jpeps]

Just asking, is this something that is to be usable by anyone, or just a play thing for geeks, it's beginning to sound very antiquated.

cheers Geoff

It's basic devolution, a world with a finite number of "bits" that need to be jealously hoarded and protected. It's basic TinyCore fundamentals, which probably explains their need to control everything and everybody with an ounce of vision or creativity.

[wanderer]

everything is just a plaything for geeks
just kidding

i think its important to realize
that we should be trying to make a iso
that does what we want it to do
and not be misled into thinking
that the latest technology
is necessary or superior

i use ttuuxxx's Classic Pup
which is based on the 2 series
and it works better for me
than any of the new puppies

ttuuxxx took an old base
and upgraded the browser and media player
and this works better
and is more maintainable
than the newest Quirky

goingnuts with his pupngo
is another great example
and that is on a puppy 4 base

i will try woof
but it may be unnecessarily complex
slow and buggy
which i expect

we very well may end up making this from parts
like we did in the old days
and by the way those isos worked just great

wanderer

[jpeps]

For those who suggest raising money for development, how about some suggestions to what would make you comfortable donating money?

I don't think that would fit the current model. John payed RS a regular salary at DSL, which certainly provided incentive. That would require a benefactor. Another approach could be a banner ad in which proceeds went to a central developer. I don't know how much of an incentive that would be. People can contribute now, but probably most don't and won't.

[wanderer]

iguleder

i agree with you
that is an excellent base

i will try the woof thing
i would like to see how it pulls
and cuts down packages from debian
i think its useful to have access to
a large repository
and a distro with continuous development

we shall see
that is the advantage of working together

wanderer

[sunburnt]

I and others have commented about how so much reinventing the wheel goes on around here.
I think it`s very important to keep this in mind as any effort is put out. Let`s see what`s available.

# Link to Pussy which is Puppy like and Debian based:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475

This may not be exactly what is wanted, but it`s closer than anything else right now.

# What a new Puppy needs:

Small size ( Difficult with Debian. 200+MB seems to be it`s target size with the apps Puppy has.).
Puppy`s many boot types.
Make SFS files directly from the Debian repository ( App builders can always make custom ones ).

This is what I see: size, bootability, and lots of apps in .deb and .sfs package formats.
# Add your thoughts about needs...
.

[wanderer]

i have just completed
my first woof2 debian squeeze iso
and i am using it now to write this

couldn't get it to look for wheezy
but will look for that next

most things seem to work fine
but it looks like i will have to adjust
the monitor resolution

it took a lot of time
but was straightforward to do

i couldn't adjust it to make partial isos
will look into that next as well

i dont know how to post it
for others to look at
so someone will have to tell me how

well this is a start
and we now have an iso to play with

thoughts anyone ?

wanderer