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Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013) [CLOSED]
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:11    Post subject:  

Okay I'm back, but only for a short while unfortunately.

LateAdopter wrote:
I tried xorgwizard but it didn't work. I got one of those annoying message boxes where the answer is NOT OK, but it only has an OK button.
I wonder what I did wrong!


Do you mind editing /usr/sbin/fatdog-xorgwizard.sh and add "-x" to the first line so it looks like "#!/bin/dash -x" and then run xorgwizard from terminal and copy/paste the output? I tried a few scenarios here to make it fail but I can't reproduce it.

Ted Dog wrote:
OK I'll spill the beans on what I strongly expect is the root cause of these unrelated glitches since my hunch is playing out as we test it.

PLEASE if you have a slow machine or a machine with a AMD family chipset. USE

expand base to ram boot switch!

base2ram=expand

and run same software with and without it boot switch. Yes it will be faster, but that is not what I'm pointing out.

the sfs decompression routine can only be run on one core for the format used, and is blocking file related IO, since puppyliux and Fatdog are really ran with hundreds of tiny text scripts, and it can be a nest of tiny text scripts. I suspect the odd root cause is a side effect of a long history that small files load time is tiny, but the opposite is true in our case. the time to load a tiny file is the same as a large file, and the more tiny files needed the worse the effect.
The packing format of SFS files group tiny files together and compress them as a set, but no decompress buffer exists like a read-ahead ext3 at the kernel driver level.
So each tiny file gets unpacked each and everytime time called and all the other tiny text files it was packed with are as well, but that effort is wasted.

One solution I found was to create a standard ext3 block-device file and have that as a single file within a SFS. This way the read-ahead buffer IO of ext3 at the kernel level takes care of the repetitive decompression problem of small files within the same directory structure.

OK it's out there... I do not have the skills to due the sfs and double loop mount ext3 inside at the init level, but main developers can quickly


Okay, I'm not really clear on what you're up to, but here is some random non-sequitur comments about something that I *do* know Smile
1) When running with base2ram=expand ---> the underlying filesystem in memory is ext2, so all you say above (if I get it correctly) is already done.
2) The kernel has a cache at the VFS level, one level above the bare filesystem. So it doesn't really matter when the the filesystem is ext2, ext3, SFS, XFS, JFS ... when a file has been read, it *will* be cached regardless of the underlying filesystem (unless you explicitly disable this).
3) I don't see the point of having ext3 diskimage compressed inside SFS. Doing that will add one level of unnecessary indirection. Which speed bottleneck are you trying to address?
4) As previously said, Fatdog64 can use anything as its basesfs - not only squashfs. I already showed an example here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=707387#707387.

Ted Dog wrote:
yes you understand this, also neat plus if ext3 block-file is copied to a harddrive, we could have a win-win type of frugal install, not really INSTALLED per say but that would free up RAM weak machines and remove the sfs problem as a bonus.
Ok I'm lost here - what is this "SFS problem"?

Ted Dog wrote:
Which is why I wanted an auto-expand if RAM>= 10x sfs size. but no...
The reason for no auto-expand is because there are others who may want to use that RAM for running applications. If we do auto-expand then we also need to add switch for "no-autoexpand" ... messy.

chapchap70 wrote:
Hi Jamesbond. Don't go crazy looking into the Thunderbird Pet. I installed Thunderbird 24.0 myself and changed the default icon.
Now you're talking ! Laughing Problems with own-compiled software should be indicated as such as the beginning.


Quote:
When I opened my netbook lid back up, my arrow no longer moved and pushing the power button made my puppy bark and exit X. I put the old suspend.sh file back and renamed the one you rewrote
Suspend never works for me, both the old and the new one, probably due to quirks in my graphics card (I've got dual-radeon laptop). All I've got after waking up is a black screen. If the old suspend.sh works then use it. It works on kirk's machine so may be he can help to look into this.

Gobbi wrote:
My graphic card is a Radeon HD 7870 XT (Tahiti) and 'radeon workaround' solved the initial problems in FD620 . As then , after loading the kernel everything stopped , freezing the screen after the line where it was loading the kernel modules.
Do this: blacklist=radeon and pfix=nox. When you get to terminal, delete the file /etc/modprobe.d/radeon-dpm.conf, and then do "modprobe radeon" and wait a couple of minutes to see if you've got any video. If it doesn't work, then perhaps the radeon in this kernel version isn't good for your card.

Quote:
I could repeat an error though : Changing the Gtk theme ( Gradent Brown ) and then from the same Gtk window changing font (bold 12) then pushed 'Apply' button and then pushed 'Ok'button gave me a black screen with the mouse pointer functioning and after 10 seconds lxpanel ( strange coloured ) appeared . No wallpaper. Restarted X and the wallpaper I've set was on the desktop.
I even repeated changing the font size from 12 to 13 and then --> Apply --> Ok --> No more wallpaper again and lxpanel issue again . Restarting X put everything in order .
Confirmed, this is a bug in glib. However I hesitate to upgrade glib because it is used by many applications; if the only thing that a new glibc fixes is gtk-chtheme (and it break others) then I prefer not to do it. That being said, there is a "glib-2.36-630.pet" on the broken folder in ibiblio. Test it out if you wish - it fixes the crash with gtk-chtheme but we haven't tested in other situations.

Quote:
A second issue : Control Panel/Desktop/Fatdog64 Event Manager. Canceling the initial 30 seconds of interval for saving , without putting a zero (0) there gives an error and an increase of CPU activity which grows if I repeat trying to acces that Event Manager from Control Panel/Desktop/ .
Previously I remember the zero (0) value was added by default even if someone forgot to put a value...
No, this would be the same behaviour even in earlier Fatdogs. I'll add default values the fields are blank.


L18L wrote:
kirk wrote:
Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:
Never got a terminal.

pfix=nox savefile=none
last thing I could see was :not using savefile

pfix=nox savefile=none loglevel=7
last thing I could see was: [ messages which I am used to see from dmesg command ] error ... video ...

What's the graphic card? If it's intel then you'll need to blacklist intel, not radeon (perhaps blacklist=i915 or blacklist=i810 or blacklist=gma500_gfx). How about trying to boot with "nomodeset"?

Ted Dog wrote:
lid close on laptop drains battery quickly (12-15hrs), did not see that in FD621 lid down for a day or day half.
Ok I will leave this to kirk as I said before, it doesn't even work for me so I don't use it.

Quote:
Pug in contaner is using 60% cpu run as user spot taking 90+Megs and growing , after using FD631rc1 for days, system is freezing and barely able to type.

Which browser, Seamonkey or FF? Do you use noscript or adblock? The usual suspect for runaway plugin container is flash ads ...

Quote:
multiple dbus deamons dups one of each type being created/distroied recreated by both spot and root. system my crash will try to get screen prints.
This is a bug, there should only be two "dbus-launch" process - one for root and one for spot. Do you know how I reproduce this? If it it keeps creating/re-creating that is the problem with hald, and hald is used by Flash ... so it may be related to the plugin container problem above.
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 13:07    Post subject:  

Download, frugal install and made a savefile in the normal way.

All works fine and its very fast boottime.

Went to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600/

to test SFS, but it fails to download for some reason.

That is more likely to be a SeaMonkey failure I assume.

But trough the SFS manager i do download.

Ibiblio did a downgrade of their bandwidth and its awfully slow. Guess Nluug and/or others are the future.

Update. The packet manager, unlike last release, does a weird thing when you doubleclick on, lets say firefox to mark it for installation. When you double click, the entire window drops down to that line at the bottom of the screen where the different programs you have open are showed. Not important, but a bit annoying.

Great work James Bond(and others)

Last edited by Atle on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 20:05; edited 1 time in total
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 13:25    Post subject: Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)
Subject description: video and/or gpu
 

jamesbond wrote:
L18L wrote:
kirk wrote:
Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:
Never got a terminal.

pfix=nox savefile=none
last thing I could see was :not using savefile

pfix=nox savefile=none loglevel=7
last thing I could see was: [ messages which I am used to see from dmesg command ] error ... video ...

What's the graphic card? If it's intel then you'll need to blacklist intel, not radeon (perhaps blacklist=i915 or blacklist=i810 or blacklist=gma500_gfx). How about trying to boot with "nomodeset"?

Got it run now (UEFI booted) using
Code:
blacklist=gma500_gfx

system was installed to a pen drive as:
Code:
dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1.iso of=/dev/sdb
UEFI_booted.png
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UEFI_booted.png

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4108
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 20:40    Post subject:  

If FD630 is remastered to a new ISO after initial setup and tailoring, should I expect that
Code:
dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1-NEW.iso of=/dev/sdb
will yield a bootable drive/stick?

Curious

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2298
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 21:05    Post subject:  

I'm really surprised not to many puppylinux spins use the single line hyrid-isolinux command when making the ISO file, this dual use ISO method is already kinda old, every other major distro seems to support this.

so yes dd-ing an ISO file made with the command, works great.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 01:16    Post subject:  

Atle wrote:
Update. The packet manager, unlike last release, does a weird thing when you doubleclick on, lets say firefox to mark it for installation. When you double click, the entire window drops down to that line at the bottom of the screen where the different programs you have open are showed. Not important, but a bit annoying.

That's odd. I can't reproduce it here; it behaves normally. Anyone else having similar problems?

L18L wrote:
Got it run now (UEFI booted) using
Code:
blacklist=gma500_gfx

system was installed to a pen drive as:
Code:
dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1.iso of=/dev/sdb

Ok, so you're running it using UEFI framebuffer. gma500_gfx is the driver for the dreaded Poulsbo graphics card and its offspring; so if blacklisting it works it means that your graphics card isn't supported in kernel 3.11 yet (or the support is broken). The driver is still being actively developed and according to what I've read the kernel devs make a significant changes in 3.12.

gcmartin wrote:
If FD630 is remastered to a new ISO after initial setup and tailoring, should I expect that
Code:
dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1-NEW.iso of=/dev/sdb
will yield a bootable drive/stick?


Yes.

Ted Dog wrote:
I'm really surprised not to many puppylinux spins use the single line hyrid-isolinux command when making the ISO file, this dual use ISO method is already kinda old, every other major distro seems to support this.
Some people are opposed to this, because a typo when doing "dd" can easily wipe off your harddisk. It is especially worse for Windows refugee. For this to happen, I think someone will need to write a simple Windows (and Linux) GUI programs that will do the "dd" in a controlled manner to the flash-drive.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2298
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 01:30    Post subject:  

how to duplicate problem I wrote about, check email, and surf this forum, without rebooting for little over a day and a half, downloaded a file from this forum, and reply to a few posts.
The 'event' happen on this thread, during typing in a textbox..

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=89512

Opps that post was deleted (not by me) it was very wonky (typos galore) since the textbox was being blotted with white bars, and text chunks shifting in/out of view, the very bad time, posted the one above after that one did not have as many corruptions. Got a screen shot, but based on your reply it was not going to be anything you have not described. The white out block JUST occurred AS I was spell checking the word described, in the last sentance, Happened again when I misspelled sentence. Cool it is looking like an issue with spell checker..
If you are a good speeller if my never happen, I guess
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kirk

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: florida

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 08:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
lid close on laptop drains battery quickly (12-15hrs), did not see that in FD621 lid down for a day or day half.


Quote:
When I opened my netbook lid back up, my arrow no longer moved and pushing the power button made my puppy bark and exit X.


The things that have changed since 621 are the kernel and the suspend script. The only real difference in the suspend script is that it does not unmout usb devices by default. The script tells the kernel to suspend to memory, the kernel puts everything on hold and then tells the bios/uefi firmware to put the hardware to sleep. I'm not sure there is anything that the kernel does that can effect battery life.
Black screens and things not resuming correctly are kernel bugs unfortunately. Sometimes you can work around these by removing the offending module before suspending and then reloading it after. We'll be updating the kernel before final, so that may help.
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 09:39    Post subject: Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)
Subject description: thanks and 2 suggestions
 

jamesbond wrote:
...Ok, so you're running it using UEFI framebuffer. gma500_gfx is the driver for the dreaded Poulsbo graphics card and its offspring; so if blacklisting it works it means that your graphics card isn't supported in kernel 3.11 yet (or the support is broken). The driver is still being actively developed and according to what I've read the kernel devs make a significant changes in 3.12.

Yes the culprit is definitely the gma500_gfx module only.
Code:
modprobe gma500_gfx
in the running system makes it all black...
Anyway.. resolution is 1600x1200px (should be 1920x1080)
So I am hoping another kernel will help.
----

I suggest that with pfix=nox and/or nomodeset xorgwizard (and modprobe <video>) should not start. At the moment it looks like just xwin is not started.

The desktop drive icons should be placed some bits higher.... (see my screeny above)

...to be continued (especially i18n related)
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 10:41    Post subject:  

Quote:
That's odd. I can't reproduce it here; it behaves normally. Anyone else having similar problems?


I did another test on the same machine, same installtion and its GONE. I try full screen mode etc. It seems like my entire desktop is behaving better, as yesterday, when i closed a program, the dialog box sort of went away going left and upwards. But for a long time I have suspected my Grapich card, a Nvidia GeForece GT 520m to be a eraly model or "monday product" because normally what works for other owners of same card under linux, works, but mine not.

A tiny minor thing with Opera, as once installed the icon is missing in the menu.

And did I love how Seamonkey desktop icon was exchanged with the firefox one when installed? YES I DID...

Did I love to post my 14.68 second boot time to this thread? YES I DID.

Cant wait for final release. A proposed "point of sales" for a distrowatch announcement, could be that darn great boot time.
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:24    Post subject: Re: Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)
Subject description: i18n
 

L18L wrote:
...to be continued (especially i18n related)


I have copied some locales from
/usr/share/locales/i18n/locales
of another distro (precise 5.7.1)
and used "Set Locale" from Control Panel>Localisation to set my LANG to de_DE.UTF8.

Let LANG stay LANG in Control Panel and localization works there.
Change line 27 of /usr/sbin/fatdog-control-panel.sh from
Code:
LANG=C # make ash/bash run

to
Code:
#LANG=C # make ash/bash run

or simply copy
Code:
sed -i 's@LANG=C # make ash/bash run@#LANG=C # make ash/bash run@' /usr/sbin/fatdog-control-panel.sh
into console and press ENTER key.
locale.png
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locale.png

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 17:29    Post subject:  

Packet and SFS mangager has choices of repositories, but the default one is ibiblio that are so S L O W ...

Could it be better to use on of the others in order to give new users a better first experience? Like Nluug or better?

Took me some time to figure that one out and its hard to understand why all downloads including the one at the first page here is set to use the slowest option. Any good reason for that or could it be changed?

Trying to do some test downloads in order to find out about the speeds of the various options, I might have a little possible bug.

I have a large savefile 2048mb, 4 gig of ram and my firefox downloads to root/spot/downloads.

Yet i get this message as attached. I had the error before, but thought it might be on serverside or so. Please see attached image.

Atle
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kirk

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: florida

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 20:32    Post subject:  

Quote:
Could it be better to use on of the others in order to give new users a better first experience? Like Nluug or better?


Ibiblio is actually who gives us hosting. Nluug is a mirror. Maybe we can put an option in there.

Your Firefox error message about being out of memory is misleading, it is actually talking about disk space. Do you have enough free space in your savefile?

If you're using a linux partition (ext2/3/4) I find the savefolder much better. In grub boot with something like this on the kernel line:

savefile=direct:device:sda6:/fd64save

Where fd64save is the name of an empty folder on partition sda6. This way you don't have to worry about running out of space, except if the partition fills up. And you don't have to create a savefile.
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct 2013, 00:31    Post subject:  

Hi Kirk...

Yes i made a savefile as big as 2048.

But if you look in the right lower corner, you see that there is 1,4 gb free savefile space. To me this looks more like permissions, but i am open for having made a mistake.
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Gobbi

Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Fri 25 Oct 2013, 08:02    Post subject:  

Jamesbond said :
Quote:
Do this: blacklist=radeon and pfix=nox. When you get to terminal, delete the file /etc/modprobe.d/radeon-dpm.conf, and then do "modprobe radeon" and wait a couple of minutes to see if you've got any video. If it doesn't work, then perhaps the radeon in this kernel version isn't good for your card.


I did two things:
1 . Booted with pfix=nox loglevel=7 then modprobe radeon then xwin . This gave a lot of vertical narrow black and white stripes on my screen and the system frozen .
2 . As you suggested I removed the radeon-dmf.conf file before starting X adding loglevel=7 . Did modeprobe radeon and the last lines on the black screen were :

.
.
[drm] Internal thermal controller with fan control
[drm] power management initialized
[drm] fb mappable at 0xD1388000
[drm] vram apper at 0xD0000000
[drm] size 4325376
[drm] fb depth is 24
[drm] pitch is 5632
fb con : radeondrmfb (fb0) is primary device
Console : switching to colour frame buffer device 170x48
radeon 0000:01:0: fb0 : radeondrmfb frame buffer device
radeon 0000:01:0:registred panic notifier
[drm] initialized radeon 2.34.0 200080528 for 0000:01:0 0n minor 0

I assume fatdog did find a way to use the card. Then xwin and fatdog started normally on the screen .
Looking forward and waiting patiently for the Catalyst.pet .

Jamesbond said
Quote:
Confirmed, this is a bug in glib. However I hesitate to upgrade glib because it is used by many applications; if the only thing that a new glibc fixes is gtk-chtheme (and it break others) then I prefer not to do it. That being said, there is a "glib-2.36-630.pet" on the broken folder in ibiblio. Test it out if you wish - it fixes the crash with gtk-chtheme but we haven't tested in other situations.


I tested the glib-2.36-630.pet and it solved that glitch , but if it can make more damage on other occasions I can live with the old one since I only make those settings in the beginning and restarting X put back the normal screen.
BTW on that broken folder in ibiblio I saw Seamonkey 2.20 witch I use it with no problem on fatdog 620 .Did it also give problems ? I'd like to know more...

Installed the pet which contains the transset-df command line tool , did a visit to the owner's site and saw how to use it but , it seems fatdog's WM openbox has no such thing as transparency , or it needs other themes , I don't know .
Jwm also does't have transparency and I couldn't start icewm after I installed the pet. Could anyone give me a clue when can I use transset-df ?

Last edited by Gobbi on Fri 25 Oct 2013, 09:15; edited 2 times in total
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