Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013) [CLOSED]

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Ted Dog
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Re: Decompression subsystem utility during system operations

#31 Post by Ted Dog »

gcmartin wrote:Reasonable.
... the time to load a tiny file is the same as a large file ...
This would be the case especially for a RAM based system (similar for those of us running via DVDs instead of full installs) which uses RAM as an I/O device via an architected I/O subsystem.

Base2RAM removes the SFS need, once loaded, for this segment of system operations.

Also to note: AMD processors ahve a differen hardware design from Intel. Its instrution staging is based upon that design.
yes you understand this, also neat plus if ext3 block-file is copied to a harddrive, we could have a win-win type of frugal install, not really INSTALLED per say but that would free up RAM weak machines and remove the sfs problem as a bonus.

gcmartin

Re: Decompression subsystem utility during system operations

#32 Post by gcmartin »

... that would free up RAM weak machines and remove the sfs problem as a bonus.
The early 2006 vendor PCs are the only 64bit platforms which had merely 1GB of RAM (excepting for some 64bit netbooks). Most all other vendor desktops-laptops since had 2GB+ RAM. (this was a vendor mandated standard)

Just a note.

gcmartin

#33 Post by gcmartin »

Radeon in FATDOG
While there is discussion on install, setup, and use of these cards, the community seemingly can be broken into several groups:
  • Desktop only users
  • Multimedia users
  • Gaming users
  • 3D user needs
Question:
Is there anyone who is experienced enough that can setup a thread, document, or wiki which guides simple clear-cut instructions for system setup for persons falling into either of these groups?

This is, "time-permitting", after GA release of FATDOG630 and the Radeon issues are understood-addressed.

Loving this FATDOG...
Edited: Changed video to multimedia in outline
Last edited by gcmartin on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 06:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Ted Dog
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#34 Post by Ted Dog »

Yes and 2G is plenty large enough to try expand to ram.

2G -sfs file (200M) /2 = ~875M user RAM

same

2G - unpacked 700M /2 = ~ 700M user RAM

Which is why I wanted an auto-expand if RAM>= 10x sfs size. but no... :cry:

chapchap70
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#35 Post by chapchap70 »

Quote:
Edit: Clicking on the thunderbird icon launced the new Seamonkey 2.21. I had thunderbird set up as default email. thunderbird-spot still worked in terminal although I have to reconfigure some things.

Hmm, need to look again at that that thunderbird pet is doing. Thanks for reporting.




Hi Jamesbond. Don't go crazy looking into the Thunderbird Pet. I installed Thunderbird 24.0 myself and changed the default icon.

It turns out that I couldn't send or receive email because of the firewall (don't know why specifically) but when I turned it off than back on, sending and receiving worked.


When I opened my netbook lid back up, my arrow no longer moved and pushing the power button made my puppy bark and exit X. I put the old suspend.sh file back and renamed the one you rewrote. Maybe there is a logfile somewhere; I don't know how to figure out what exactly caused the glitch.

Gobbi
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#36 Post by Gobbi »

Thank's for the shortcut Jamesbond :!:
Adding the setting blacklist=radeon from isolinux.cfg into grub made the frugal install work indeed ...
My graphic card is a Radeon HD 7870 XT (Tahiti) and 'radeon workaround' solved the initial problems in FD620 . As then , after loading the kernel everything stopped , freezing the screen after the line where it was loading the kernel modules. I think with the proper Catalyst pet everything will go fine.
I don't remember if I set the wallpaper before I closed the RAM-save... Anyway returning to default wallpaper happened only that once time. I couldn't repeat that.
I could repeat an error though : Changing the Gtk theme ( Gradent Brown ) and then from the same Gtk window changing font (bold 12) then pushed 'Apply' button and then pushed 'Ok'button gave me a black screen with the mouse pointer functioning and after 10 seconds lxpanel ( strange coloured ) appeared . No wallpaper. Restarted X and the wallpaper I've set was on the desktop.
I even repeated changing the font size from 12 to 13 and then --> Apply --> Ok --> No more wallpaper again and lxpanel issue again . Restarting X put everything in order .

A second issue : Control Panel/Desktop/Fatdog64 Event Manager. Canceling the initial 30 seconds of interval for saving , without putting a zero (0) there gives an error and an increase of CPU activity which grows if I repeat trying to acces that Event Manager from Control Panel/Desktop/ .
Previously I remember the zero (0) value was added by default even if someone forgot to put a value...
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LateAdopter
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#37 Post by LateAdopter »

Hello kirk

Thanks for the instructions.
You can force glamor to be used by editing /usr/X11R7/lib64/X11/xorg.conf.d/glamor.conf.
It worked, in the sense that glamor acceleration was enabled and reported in the xorg.log. But it turnout to be slower than the default method.

VLC gave lots of picture too late warnings with my test video. So I reverted to normal and there are no warnings now.

That could be why it is not enabled by default.

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L18L
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Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)

#38 Post by L18L »

Fatdog64-610 (another xorg) was ok for my asrock AD2550-ITX board

But now no go with boot parameters:
blacklist=radeon loadmodules=gma500_gfx loglevel=7 savefile=none

last line I could read before no signal input and black screen was something containing:
drm
error

What could I do to get the exact error messages please?

kirk
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#39 Post by kirk »

L18L,

Sometime when one thing gets fixed something gets broke. Take a look at http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/screen.html and see if that helps.



I've noticed that if you enable glamor, lxpanel will cause xorg to segfault. JWM does work. I'm working on an alternative.

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Ted Dog
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#40 Post by Ted Dog »

Video Editor crashes and disappears on all videos at the file section stage. (granted it was being pulled from NTFS.)

Was able to use FD621 to 'fix-usb' to fat32 for FD630rc, I think the recognition of fat32 is not working, from programs that are looking for it by partition, FD621 saw that the first attempt to construct fix-usb worked in that the partition was there, but unformat, FD630rc1

Also oddly I was unable to change the permissions as root even when root owner/group on a file on said fat32 yet I could copy it fine.

Have my testing box set back up, so I can try burning a few bluerays/DVD multisessions later this weekend.

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L18L
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Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)

#41 Post by L18L »

kirk wrote: Take a look at http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/screen.html and see if that helps.
kirk,
thanks for the link.
I have been trying some boot parameters but without success again.

The last words which I was able to read on the screen were Error and Driver
..then no input signal (message of my monitor) and black screen.

May I suggest you put into the next rc
loglevel=9: writes log to /dev/sda1
so the log can be read after such issues.

Thanks in advance

kirk
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Location: florida

#42 Post by kirk »

L18L,

Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:

xwin jwm

And see if that brings up a desktop. There's an issue with lxpanel if glamor gets enabled.


Ted Dog,
Video Editor crashes and disappears on all videos at the file section stage. (granted it was being pulled from NTFS.)
Is this when you try to encode your edited video?
What type of source video? (flv,avi,....)
What type of video are you trying to encode to?
Was the output to NTFS?
Do you have a link to a video that causes a crash?

Thanks guys.

James will be off line for few days and I'm always slow :). Your patience is appreciated.

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L18L
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no terminal

#43 Post by L18L »

kirk wrote:Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:
Never got a terminal.

pfix=nox savefile=none
last thing I could see was :not using savefile

pfix=nox savefile=none loglevel=7
last thing I could see was: [ messages which I am used to see from dmesg command ] error ... video ...

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Ted Dog
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#44 Post by Ted Dog »

lid close on laptop drains battery quickly (12-15hrs), did not see that in FD621 lid down for a day or day half.

on video editor, since it never loaded any thing I could not test beyond selecting file and seeing a brief message on the status line before it vanished, I'll give it a shot later, without base2ram=expand. It may slowdown the time before it disappears to read status.

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Ted Dog
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spot user killing CPUs

#45 Post by Ted Dog »

Pug in contaner is using 60% cpu run as user spot taking 90+Megs and growing , after using FD631rc1 for days, system is freezing and barely able to type. multiple dbus deamons dups one of each type being created/distroied recreated by both spot and root. system my crash will try to get screen prints.

jamesbond
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#46 Post by jamesbond »

Okay I'm back, but only for a short while unfortunately.
LateAdopter wrote:I tried xorgwizard but it didn't work. I got one of those annoying message boxes where the answer is NOT OK, but it only has an OK button.
I wonder what I did wrong!
Do you mind editing /usr/sbin/fatdog-xorgwizard.sh and add "-x" to the first line so it looks like "#!/bin/dash -x" and then run xorgwizard from terminal and copy/paste the output? I tried a few scenarios here to make it fail but I can't reproduce it.
Ted Dog wrote:OK I'll spill the beans on what I strongly expect is the root cause of these unrelated glitches since my hunch is playing out as we test it.

PLEASE if you have a slow machine or a machine with a AMD family chipset. USE

expand base to ram boot switch!

base2ram=expand

and run same software with and without it boot switch. Yes it will be faster, but that is not what I'm pointing out.

the sfs decompression routine can only be run on one core for the format used, and is blocking file related IO, since puppyliux and Fatdog are really ran with hundreds of tiny text scripts, and it can be a nest of tiny text scripts. I suspect the odd root cause is a side effect of a long history that small files load time is tiny, but the opposite is true in our case. the time to load a tiny file is the same as a large file, and the more tiny files needed the worse the effect.
The packing format of SFS files group tiny files together and compress them as a set, but no decompress buffer exists like a read-ahead ext3 at the kernel driver level.
So each tiny file gets unpacked each and everytime time called and all the other tiny text files it was packed with are as well, but that effort is wasted.

One solution I found was to create a standard ext3 block-device file and have that as a single file within a SFS. This way the read-ahead buffer IO of ext3 at the kernel level takes care of the repetitive decompression problem of small files within the same directory structure.

OK it's out there... I do not have the skills to due the sfs and double loop mount ext3 inside at the init level, but main developers can quickly
Okay, I'm not really clear on what you're up to, but here is some random non-sequitur comments about something that I *do* know :)
1) When running with base2ram=expand ---> the underlying filesystem in memory is ext2, so all you say above (if I get it correctly) is already done.
2) The kernel has a cache at the VFS level, one level above the bare filesystem. So it doesn't really matter when the the filesystem is ext2, ext3, SFS, XFS, JFS ... when a file has been read, it *will* be cached regardless of the underlying filesystem (unless you explicitly disable this).
3) I don't see the point of having ext3 diskimage compressed inside SFS. Doing that will add one level of unnecessary indirection. Which speed bottleneck are you trying to address?
4) As previously said, Fatdog64 can use anything as its basesfs - not only squashfs. I already showed an example here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 387#707387.
Ted Dog wrote:yes you understand this, also neat plus if ext3 block-file is copied to a harddrive, we could have a win-win type of frugal install, not really INSTALLED per say but that would free up RAM weak machines and remove the sfs problem as a bonus.
Ok I'm lost here - what is this "SFS problem"?
Ted Dog wrote:Which is why I wanted an auto-expand if RAM>= 10x sfs size. but no...
The reason for no auto-expand is because there are others who may want to use that RAM for running applications. If we do auto-expand then we also need to add switch for "no-autoexpand" ... messy.
chapchap70 wrote:Hi Jamesbond. Don't go crazy looking into the Thunderbird Pet. I installed Thunderbird 24.0 myself and changed the default icon.
Now you're talking ! :lol: Problems with own-compiled software should be indicated as such as the beginning.

When I opened my netbook lid back up, my arrow no longer moved and pushing the power button made my puppy bark and exit X. I put the old suspend.sh file back and renamed the one you rewrote
Suspend never works for me, both the old and the new one, probably due to quirks in my graphics card (I've got dual-radeon laptop). All I've got after waking up is a black screen. If the old suspend.sh works then use it. It works on kirk's machine so may be he can help to look into this.
Gobbi wrote:My graphic card is a Radeon HD 7870 XT (Tahiti) and 'radeon workaround' solved the initial problems in FD620 . As then , after loading the kernel everything stopped , freezing the screen after the line where it was loading the kernel modules.
Do this: blacklist=radeon and pfix=nox. When you get to terminal, delete the file /etc/modprobe.d/radeon-dpm.conf, and then do "modprobe radeon" and wait a couple of minutes to see if you've got any video. If it doesn't work, then perhaps the radeon in this kernel version isn't good for your card.
I could repeat an error though : Changing the Gtk theme ( Gradent Brown ) and then from the same Gtk window changing font (bold 12) then pushed 'Apply' button and then pushed 'Ok'button gave me a black screen with the mouse pointer functioning and after 10 seconds lxpanel ( strange coloured ) appeared . No wallpaper. Restarted X and the wallpaper I've set was on the desktop.
I even repeated changing the font size from 12 to 13 and then --> Apply --> Ok --> No more wallpaper again and lxpanel issue again . Restarting X put everything in order .
Confirmed, this is a bug in glib. However I hesitate to upgrade glib because it is used by many applications; if the only thing that a new glibc fixes is gtk-chtheme (and it break others) then I prefer not to do it. That being said, there is a "glib-2.36-630.pet" on the broken folder in ibiblio. Test it out if you wish - it fixes the crash with gtk-chtheme but we haven't tested in other situations.
A second issue : Control Panel/Desktop/Fatdog64 Event Manager. Canceling the initial 30 seconds of interval for saving , without putting a zero (0) there gives an error and an increase of CPU activity which grows if I repeat trying to acces that Event Manager from Control Panel/Desktop/ .
Previously I remember the zero (0) value was added by default even if someone forgot to put a value...
No, this would be the same behaviour even in earlier Fatdogs. I'll add default values the fields are blank.

L18L wrote:
kirk wrote:Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:
Never got a terminal.

pfix=nox savefile=none
last thing I could see was :not using savefile

pfix=nox savefile=none loglevel=7
last thing I could see was: [ messages which I am used to see from dmesg command ] error ... video ...
What's the graphic card? If it's intel then you'll need to blacklist intel, not radeon (perhaps blacklist=i915 or blacklist=i810 or blacklist=gma500_gfx). How about trying to boot with "nomodeset"?
Ted Dog wrote:lid close on laptop drains battery quickly (12-15hrs), did not see that in FD621 lid down for a day or day half.
Ok I will leave this to kirk as I said before, it doesn't even work for me so I don't use it.
Pug in contaner is using 60% cpu run as user spot taking 90+Megs and growing , after using FD631rc1 for days, system is freezing and barely able to type.
Which browser, Seamonkey or FF? Do you use noscript or adblock? The usual suspect for runaway plugin container is flash ads ...
multiple dbus deamons dups one of each type being created/distroied recreated by both spot and root. system my crash will try to get screen prints.
This is a bug, there should only be two "dbus-launch" process - one for root and one for spot. Do you know how I reproduce this? If it it keeps creating/re-creating that is the problem with hald, and hald is used by Flash ... so it may be related to the plugin container problem above.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

Atle
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#47 Post by Atle »

Download, frugal install and made a savefile in the normal way.

All works fine and its very fast boottime.

Went to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600/

to test SFS, but it fails to download for some reason.

That is more likely to be a SeaMonkey failure I assume.

But trough the SFS manager i do download.

Ibiblio did a downgrade of their bandwidth and its awfully slow. Guess Nluug and/or others are the future.

Update. The packet manager, unlike last release, does a weird thing when you doubleclick on, lets say firefox to mark it for installation. When you double click, the entire window drops down to that line at the bottom of the screen where the different programs you have open are showed. Not important, but a bit annoying.

Great work James Bond(and others)
Last edited by Atle on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 00:05, edited 1 time in total.

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L18L
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Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)

#48 Post by L18L »

jamesbond wrote:
L18L wrote:
kirk wrote:Could you try booting with pfix=nox and when/if you get to a terminal type:
Never got a terminal.

pfix=nox savefile=none
last thing I could see was :not using savefile

pfix=nox savefile=none loglevel=7
last thing I could see was: [ messages which I am used to see from dmesg command ] error ... video ...
What's the graphic card? If it's intel then you'll need to blacklist intel, not radeon (perhaps blacklist=i915 or blacklist=i810 or blacklist=gma500_gfx). How about trying to boot with "nomodeset"?
Got it run now (UEFI booted) using

Code: Select all

blacklist=gma500_gfx
system was installed to a pen drive as:

Code: Select all

dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1.iso of=/dev/sdb
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gcmartin

#49 Post by gcmartin »

If FD630 is remastered to a new ISO after initial setup and tailoring, should I expect that

Code: Select all

dd if=Fatdog64-630rc1-NEW.iso of=/dev/sdb
will yield a bootable drive/stick?

Curious

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Ted Dog
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#50 Post by Ted Dog »

I'm really surprised not to many puppylinux spins use the single line hyrid-isolinux command when making the ISO file, this dual use ISO method is already kinda old, every other major distro seems to support this.

so yes dd-ing an ISO file made with the command, works great.

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