(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I was starting to think that Barry may be approaching retirement since his blog announcements have become rather infrequent recently.

He has in fact just announced his retirement here:
http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00361

I really hope that this does not signal the end of the Puppy Linux project - it's too important to the Linux community for that to happen.

There is always the danger though, that without its lead developer, the project will just fade away to nothing.

So let's see if we can put together a project based on Puppy - call it the LABR project i.e (Life after Barry's retirement)?

Thanks for everything you've given us in these 10 years Barry. I wish you a happy and fulfilled retirement.

Hi, tronkel.

I too hope Puppy will continue, in whatever shape or form.

You may have noticed that anikin has already started a thread
on the same subject at
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88877
I posted my thanks and best wishes to BarryK there.

Best regards.

musher0

It seems to me the first step in keeping Puppy going the way it has, is to post a clear and complete description of how it works, etc., so everyone pulls in the same direction. In other words, detailed specifications of an operating system.

There may already be a wiki page and/or thread in this forum that can be expanded into such a thing.

- call it the LABR project i.e (Life after Barry's retirement)?

It would be the LABR door?

LABRdoors are nice Puppies.

Puppy Linux is an open source project, so it has no end but it will frozen only until it fades. It order to make puppy linux project continues w/o barry. I suggest the following:

1. Standardized the API in Puppy Linux
2. Standardized the Puppy Linux Core Structure

This factor will continue to exist Puppy Linux because of having a proper standardization in Building Puppy Linux. The puppy linux will become less fragmented, less ambiguity especially in app development for puppy and it can seen easily where puppy linux direction goes.

mistfire wrote:Puppy Linux is an open source project, so it has no end but it will frozen only until it fades. It order to make puppy linux project continues w/o barry. I suggest the following:

1. Standardized the API in Puppy Linux
2. Standardized the Puppy Linux Core Structure

This factor will continue to exist Puppy Linux because of having a proper standardization in Building Puppy Linux. The puppy linux will become less fragmented, less ambiguity especially in app development for puppy and it can seen easily where puppy linux direction goes.

Puppy Linux has never been "standardised" and thrived on different people taking Puppy and making many variants on the same leading to new ideas - the best of which feed back into the "mainstream" Pup.

We would have no Akita, MacPup, LegacyOS etc.

One Puppy Linux is no guarantee of success anyway we have different users legacy , newer machines.

While it isn't possible to replace Barry I'm sure different forum members have some ideas on newer projects for Puppy and it won't be a case of Barry will do it mentality.

Sure Barry leaves a hole but I'm sure there is a lot of creativity and thinking outside the box existing in this community.

Flash wrote:It seems to me the first step in keeping Puppy going the way it has, is to post a clear and complete description of how it works, etc., so everyone pulls in the same direction. In other words, detailed specifications of an operating system.

There may already be a wiki page and/or thread in this forum that can be expanded into such a thing.

some of that information is here, technical details-
http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

aims-
http://puppylinux.com/about.htm

splot wrote:

It would be the LABR door?

LABRdoors are nice Puppies.

Didn't think of that. Well spotted!

Darry 1966 wrote:

Sure Barry leaves a hole but I'm sure there is a lot of creativity and thinking outside the box existing in this community.

Maybe we don't need to be so concerned that Barry won't be the lead developer any longer. If you think about it, the main piece of philosophy that underpins this distro is: "keep it minimalist and fast, but yet full-featured". Does it really matter with what software designs this philosophy is implemented?

OK, Barry has always had his own style of doing things - a very difficult (impossible) thing for others to follow. In that sense he is irreplaceable - but, in matters of software development and design of systems, there is always more than one way to to skin a cat. (Sorry, canine that should be - only joking of course).

The philosophical principle always outlives its original inventor. So if this Puppy-style philosophy is adhered to and applied, there's no reason why the project cannot continue - albeit perhaps not exactly in the identical form as before.

Maybe a good thing in the long run?

".... call it the LABR project i.e (Life After Barry's Retirement)?"

A-dvancing, D-own, O-ther, R-outes?

L-A-B-R-A-D-O-R!
Sums up a nice pooch!

splot wrote:

- call it the LABR project i.e (Life after Barry's retirement)?

It would be the LABR door?

LABRdoors are nice Puppies.

Hi, splot.

Cute comment on a cute dog! And they're Canadian, too!
(Just being patriotic!)

BFN.

musher0

Flash wrote:It seems to me the first step in keeping Puppy going the way it has, is to post a clear and complete description of how it works, etc., so everyone pulls in the same direction. In other words, detailed specifications of an operating system.

There may already be a wiki page and/or thread in this forum that can be expanded into such a thing.

Hi, Flash.

I'll second that. Otherwise, there'll be lots of "mongrels".

BFN.

musher0

Another idea would be a "best practices" Puppy as a hinge between the two eras -- with Barry and after Barry.

Barry is leaving because he needs more time to "puppyfy" ubuntu and he's more interested in
phone-desktop all-in-one hardware. Since there is no one to continue as project leader, should
we call Puppy Linux "discontinued" or just "dormant" distribution? Puppy was nice operating
system, one of the best in its category, thanks to Barry and other contributors.

simargl8 wrote:Barry is leaving because he needs more time to "puppyfy" ubuntu and he's more interested in
phone-desktop all-in-one hardware. Since there is no one to continue as project leader, should
we call Puppy Linux "discontinued" or just "dormant" distribution? Puppy was nice operating
system, one of the best in its category, thanks to Barry and other contributors.

pupifying ubuntu has nothing to do with why he left.

Barry's Blog2 wrote:I will likely keep my "hand in", doing some Puppy-related things. For example, I am interested in the Ubuntu Phone project, and if it does get to actual released converged phone-desktop hardware, I would like to play with that.

Another idea that I have been thinking about is to create a DEB package for Ubuntu, that "puppyfies" an Ubuntu installation. Because, that is what I do anyway, whenever I install Ubuntu. It would be nice to have one DEB to transform the user interface to a close-to-Puppy experience.

And earlier in the post

Barry's Blog2 wrote:I don't plan to just suddenly pull the plug, rather just put Woof (and Puppy) in "maintenance mode" for the next year (or as long as I deem necessary), while a few things get sorted out.

"Maintenance mode" means that I will continue to work on Woof, but just focused on essential fixes, rather than any new features.

"Sorting things out", includes who will want to continue with hosting the Woof Fossil repository, who will be responsible for puppylinux.com. Or, if not "who", singular, then what group of people.

Flash wrote:It seems to me the first step in keeping Puppy going the way it has, is to post a clear and complete description of how it works, etc., so everyone pulls in the same direction. In other words, detailed specifications of an operating system.

There may already be a wiki page and/or thread in this forum that can be expanded into such a thing.

Agree 100%. It'd be nice if he would lay out a roadmap of sorts as a suggestion for where future development could go. but im pretty sure thats not his style.
My main question though is this... who makes the decision on what releases are Official PuppyLinux Releases.

Someone has to have that role, even if they answer to the community. Barry hasnt passed the baton... so does that mean there will be no more official relases and every relase will be a community release?

The last thing i want to see is people making a grab for power and there being a power struggle, or the community splitting apart into seperate camps.

Barry gave us quite detailed information (from his blog):

I don't plan to just suddenly pull the plug, rather just put Woof (and Puppy) in "maintenance mode" while a few things get sorted out.

"Maintenance mode" means that I will continue to work on Woof, but just focused on essential fixes, rather than any new features.

"Sorting things out", includes who will ....... be responsible for (various puppy matters).

I will likely keep my "hand in", doing some Puppy-related things.

Speculation about how all this will work out is not likely to be productive, altho specific proposals or options could be.

Those interested is using Puppy long-term, are reassured that BK will still "be around", and no doubt others will spring into action to take care of Puppy needs as they arise. Users need to be given confidence in their systems (which is the intention of this post).

Puppy has always been grass-roots / bottom-up in style.

The achievements in terms of usable systems and the momentum is such that any user can confidently go on using it; for the forseeable future, anyway.

Which is all anyone needs or can hope for?

Ready for testing here, thanks to all developers.

ATVB

Flash wrote:It seems to me the first step in keeping Puppy going the way it has, is to post a clear and complete description of how it works, etc., so everyone pulls in the same direction. In other words, detailed specifications of an operating system.

I think I can assure you that despite the best intention, this will never happen (documentation is a *huge* effort comparable to building the OS itself, TLDP took years before it gets to the state that it is, now). Fortunately, it isn't necessary either. We have qualified people who knows the inside out - 01micko, pemasu, playdayz, runtt21, iguleder, etc (apologies to those who I group under "etc") and while each individual may not know 100%, the combined knowledge will be near or already at 100% of what is needed to continue Puppy.

The question is how to retain these talents.

Q5sys wrote:My main question though is this... who makes the decision on what releases are Official PuppyLinux Releases.

Someone has to have that role, even if they answer to the community. Barry hasnt passed the baton...

Where I live, there is an old joke each time a leadership position is about to go vacant, make sure your mobile phone is always fully charged so that you don't miss the call (from the kingmaker is)
Joke aside, I'm quite sure Barry will assure that someone / some group will have that role. I'm sure he's now drafting a proper transition plan.

so does that mean there will be no more official relases and every relase will be a community release?

There will be, although it may only bugfix releases for next few releases until the new team stabilises.

The last thing i want to see is people making a grab for power and there being a power struggle, or the community splitting apart into seperate camps.

It already happens even when Barry is/was still at helm, a few times, so I'm not sure how we can avoid this; I mean, anyone who disagrees with the new "management" can just take the code and fork it ... but perhaps competition is good and whoever survives is worthy of being Puppy successor.

---

I think one thing that people have to accept is "don't try to find Barry's duplicate". Any duplicate will always be a poor copy of the original (unless one can make digital copies...). Rather than trying to find a person who talks like Barry and thinks like Barry of behaves like Barry, (but is not Barry so he/she will not get the respect that Barry enjoys now), lets get someone (or group, or even multiple groups) who are *capable*, *committed* and has/have *long-term vision* for Puppy, who will have the guts to make unpopular yet necessary changes, the ability to do it with minimal/no outside help, and persistence to weather the storm that will ensue during this transition period to bring Puppy into the next era.

This sea change that Puppy Linux is now facing is also being reflected elsewhere in the technology world at this time.

To digress from Linux for the moment (in order to illustrate a point here), Windows XP is about to see the end of its life-cycle in a matter of weeks from now. Since XP still accounts for about one third of the Windows user base, this leaves a heck of a lot of computer users with a big question i.e. where do I go now? Windows 7 is no longer current and many users simply don't fancy going for Windows 8 at all. Linux may be a port in a storm for them. Ballmer is also about to depart the scene - coincidentally around the same time as Barry's step-down.

Other big changes are also in the offing. Next month Ubuntu Touch is due - not far from the time when Microsoft is due to finalise the Nokia takeover. Whereto now for mobile users if this buyout goes wrong? Apple? Android? Not much choice there. No wonder then that Barry is getting interested in the potential value that Ubuntu could add vis-a-vis the mobile/smartphone sector. So maybe it is the natural step to take and diversify away from the PC operating system and start to target the "phablet" sector instead.

These big changes are inevitable in the larger scheme of things. That's what's called evolution. Puppy is no exception to this.

Somebody recently posed the question in relation to Linux Mint - the no 1 distro on Distrowatch - as to what could happen to Linux Mint without Clement Lefebre as the lead developer. A very similar situation to the one in which Puppy Linux finds itself. As has been suggested above, The Strong will survive. Puppy Linux is unique enough in its implementation to be counted as belonging to the group of The Strong. In the case of Linux Mint, I really wonder if it would survive within the Strong group without Lefebre at the helm. We'll see.

If Puppy Linux is so perfect as you claim then why is Barry Kauler quitting, he's not going to
"retire" as claimed in title of this thread, he is actually switching focus to phone-desktop
all-in-one hardware and that read between the lines, means he's abandoning Puppy Linux.