X-Slacko-4.4 with Xfce

[rg66]

X-slacko-3b2 delta uploaded

Grub4Dos frugal install to 80Gb SATA2 SSD on 2.4GHz core 2 duo, iwlwifi, intel Mobile series 4 (Cantiga) video.

Downloaded, sum checked, iso and frugal 3b1 updated. No issues, xlock and screener checked. Installed Geoffreys copy_path and it works a treat. The xclip in X-slacko (0.10) seems adequate, only the copy_path pet applied. Evince 2.32.0 installed and working (Carolina pet didn't work.. gave the oft reported 'pdf format not supported' error msg. The evince-2.32.0-patched_ice-i486-tahr.pet from the Tahr repo worked fine). Abiword 3.0.0 managed the format on one of my problematic docs about as well as LibreOffice did (Abiword 2.8.x quite blew it) so it seems a keeper for now. I know people loathe it and I've had my tussles with it, but it handles most mundane chores quite well at this point. Using flashplayer 10.3.183.51 (from the PPM) and Slimboat is playing BBC live and the few youtubes I've tried. Gnome-mplayer plays cds (nice, tracks in notifications) and dvds (fullscreen ok). Not fancy but seems a good basic player. No burps, tears, or glitches.

Thanks again Marv,

Copy_path was already there, right click "Copy Full Path". Geoffrey's was giving me a bit of trouble so I simply added a 'printf %f | parcellite' custom command, no script required.

I guess apps is the next step. I downloaded the latest Firefox but it's huge, It'll kill my 'under 200mb' quota and FF crashes a lot these days. I tried shinobars no qt vlc for Tahr but it wouldn't work, I guess I'll have to try compiling it myself.

[rg66]

Sorry ally, just about forgot. Thanks for archiving.

[starhawk]

How about Chromium, instead of FF? I'm using the v.37 SFS made for LXPup, it's easily found in the appropriate forum section...

[Marv]

Copy_path was already there, right click "Copy Full Path". Geoffrey's was giving me a bit of trouble so I simply added a 'printf %f | parcellite' custom command, no script required.

I guess apps is the next step. I downloaded the latest Firefox but it's huge, It'll kill my 'under 200mb' quota and FF crashes a lot these days. I tried shinobars no qt vlc for Tahr but it wouldn't work, I guess I'll have to try compiling it myself.

Sorry, I missed the Copy_full_Path. I misread it as Show_Full_Path which has been in Carolina for a long time. Anyway, great to have it.

I won't weigh in on the browser war as I only use externals on all machines I put together as they can have common bookmarks and setups for multiple pups, keep the cruft out of the savefile, and are simpler for me to maintain. I know to be 'complete' a pup is supposed to have one inbuilt but all the current ones are bloatards IMHO.

I do prefer evince over epdfview and the dependencies are already in. It can handle fillable pdf forms.

[rg66]

Having a look over the apps, there's not too much that needs changing.

1. Update mtpaint to 3.44.90 with tuxxx's icons
2. Swap epdfview for evince (looks like evince-2.32.0 is the last one before switching to gtk-3)
3. Update ISOmaster to 1.3.13
4. Update web browser??? (the latest firefox-35.0 is about 30mb bigger (unpacked) than the builtin 24.6.0-ESR which will add close to 15mb to the ISO)

[rg66]

I've uploaded evince-2.32.0, it's a bit nicer than the Tahr pet as it has the thumbnailer and a few other things included. Marv, can you test this?

http://smokey01.com/rg66/X-slacko/pet_p ... 86-3sl.pet

[Marv]

I've uploaded evince-2.32.0, it's a bit nicer than the Tahr pet as it has the thumbnailer and a few other things included. Marv, can you test this?

OK by everything I can throw at it. Viewed, filled, saved pdfs from tax forms to 57 page manuals. Viewed, rotated, saved jpgs and pngs. Haven't looked offhand to see what other formats it supports. It seems just fine.

Stripped epdfview and checked printing from I think everything to see if it was used there. Doesn't seem so.

Should include peasyprint 2.7 for sure. It's tiny and makes a good backend for printing from mtpaint. I generally have used it for that in the past and offhand didn't see a backend aboard, Could set it as the default in mtpaint (peasyprint %f in mtpaint>File>Actions>Configure>Print Image).

[dawg]

4. Update web browser??? (the latest firefox-35.0 is about 30mb bigger (unpacked) than the builtin 24.6.0-ESR which will add close to 15mb to the ISO)

Hi guys; a lurking presently-Carolina user here.
I've a couple of views/suggestions that I've been wanting to share for a while now regarding these lovely XFce pups, and I guess it's now or never.

Firstly, as a FF user and storing it on a dedicated USB flash drive, I'm getting increasingly annoyed by FF's ridiculous ever-growing in size (each major release is by a few MB larger - seriously, what are they putting into it?!? NSA-ware?) and its filling up my drive unnecessarily, and then also having another FF already fixedly built-into the Puppy itself just adds some more to the ridiculousness.

So, my suggestion would be to have the built-in browser (be it FF or any other) in the adrv.sfs, so that one can simply rebuild the adrv with their browser/version update of choice - or none, should they (like myself) prefer to keep their browser "elsewhere" (and that way, more easily updatable).

The same I would suggest for Thunderbird, LibreOffice, and in fact, any other "additional" (or "non-essential") software as well, so that removing the adrv would simply make the pup a "lite" version and customization-ready at will (and even more flexible/modular).

On the same note, for this purpose, having a list of the "official" software that's in the adrv (as well as the main sfs) would come in handy, so it'd make "hunting for" some of the "official" software and including it into the custom adrv a little easier when rebuilding).

Also, as for the browser/FF itself, perhaps having some other, smaller-but-usable-recent-enough alternative would be more economical (smaller ISO).


Last, but not least, for you guys, or anyone still willing to work on other "base" XFce pups:
I'm guessing having more uniformity (regarding the official software choices & features) would probably make the development job, as well as the users' choice of which XFce pup to use, a little easier (less confusing) - i.e. "just use whichever works better on one's machine" - it would kinda make them one and the same, but I guess then that's up to the individual developers and how much of their personal taste and vision they wanna bring into a distro.
I just imagine that more people working on one common goal/vision would bring better and faster progress, and ultimately, more mainstream success. (Rather than scattering the good, creative, productive energy and possibly giving up and leaving the users to themselves and having to find another distro/variant when wanting to upgrade.)
Anyway, this has been my vision and hope for Puppy for years now, and now with XFce, this may finally be even more possible. I see huge potential here!
(Of course, the popular and most useful mainstream apps should either be already included and/or available on-a-click).


One other thing: if somehow possible, having a universal "XFce-ify a Puppy" recipe/script/pet would be useful for converting other/any non-XFce Pups, and then taking it from there would be so much easier (for example, when upgrading/forking a flagship pup).


Just my contribution with a few thoughts on these matters...

Anyhow, thanks to all developers and testers, keep up the good work!

[rg66]

@ dawg

Some good suggestions, having the browser in the adrive is a good idea (although it doesn't help with my 200mb limit which I'd like to try and stick to). Moving all apps to the adrive is also something to consider, Geoffrey and I spent a lot of time cleaning up the main Carolina sfs and moving stuff to the adrive. No browser and a choice of sfs's to download is also an idea, I think lucid was like that.

As far as uniformity goes, X-slacko and X-precise were something I did on my own although the idea was base on Saluki/Carolina. There are a lot of similarities and they share a lot of the same apps that Geoffrey and I made so have a familiar feel to them. Most of the differences are based on the distro, and what runs in one might not in the other. I generally strip out what I don't want and keep the default apps then add a few that I like. I don't have much to do with Carolina these days, chosen apps are pretty much up to Geoffrey.

I have though about doing an Xfce sfs to drop into any puppy but it isn't that simple. Different distro's need different things and I think Xfce should be compiled in that specific one.

Anyway, a lot to think about

[starhawk]

Hey, rg66, I don't know if you saw my post -- if FF doesn't fit, what about Chromium? Is it too big as well...? Doesn't need to be the latest -- I'm running v.37.something (an LXPup SFS, at that) and it works just fine everywhere I go...

Just a thought...

[Marv]

@RG66,
Just noodling around. I like the idea of having the main browser in a SFS, possibly with the option to load it presented on first boot. While continuing to test evince and peasyprint I stripped down the main sfs, put the evince from your pet in in place of epdfview, added peasyprint 2.7 and the PPM flashplayer, put in a few fonts, fiddled a few themes, and just for giggles, pulled firefox and added dillo-3.0.4 from a forum slacko 5.7 pet (one of Oscar Talks I believe) , and modified the /usr/sbin/save2flash along the lines of the one in vlina to get the 'queing to save' message as a notification, not the bright yellow yaf-splash in screen center. The puppy_event_frontend in Xslacko is a compiled daemon so the second message can't be changed. Mostly threw in dillo to see how the newer ones ran and as a way to set up cups before adding the external browsers. Posting from it now. Main SFS is 128.5Mb. Only printer setup and simpleGTKradio remain in savefile. Proof of concept, not tweaked or pruned but stable.If I can't break it it must be stout!

If I had to weigh in with one of the main stream browsers it would be Pale Moon 25.0.1. I can't make myself love it but it has been stable for me and works with pretty much all web sites. Chrome/chromium gives me the willies in the same way that windows does. It just takes off and does things on it's own!

[rg66]

Hey, rg66, I don't know if you saw my post -- if FF doesn't fit, what about Chromium? Is it too big as well...? Doesn't need to be the latest -- I'm running v.37.something (an LXPup SFS, at that) and it works just fine everywhere I go...

Just a thought...

Hey starhawk, I did see your post and sorry for not responding earlier. I was playing around with Chromium-39 wih pepperflash earlier today and remembered why I didn't use Chrome in Windows. I can't have a Menu bar which is something I want, but it is still a replacement option. Firefox is too big and crashes too much these days.

[rg66]

@ Marv

It's fairly easy to get an sfs to load on first run, I did it with my kids "indestructible" Carolina that never saves.

I'm almost leaning towards an adrive with the browser as an sfs. The question being which browser? I'm still a fan of firefox but as stated earlier, size and stability have become an issue. The ESR versions seem to be a little better and smaller.

[gcmartin]

Hello @RG66

This is a idea for your consideration on SFS processing. It needs no reply/acknowledgement. Please understand that it does NOT intend to change anyone's perception(s) about how to handle SFSs in a running PUP, but, some may find this a very interesting implementation that works.

One of the most interesting boot-time occurrences was set forth by @TaZoC several years ago, that only 1 other PUP member has investigated, even though, this was ground breaking.

If you would download, his LIghtHouse64 "Mariner" version, create a DVD and boot it, you, et.al. will see something which many have missed. Hint: Watch what happens with the DVD's SFSs at boot-time.

This helps non-experienced users gain some familiarity of SFS benefits. Should any developer choose to take a moment to look at this, this post should awaken you to some hidden complexity you may not be able to figure out. Should you be able to figure it out, you may want share your finding with that post's author.

This is subtle, yet profound. Take a look!

[rg66]

If I remember correctly all you need is a line in /etc/rc.d/BOOTCONFIG such as: EXTRASFSLIST='skype-4.3.0.37-slacko14.0-apulse.sfs devx_slacko_5.9.3.sfs' and those 2 sfs's should load at boot, save or not.

[Marv]

@ Marv

It's fairly easy to get an sfs to load on first run, I did it with my kids "indestructible" Carolina that never saves.

I'm almost leaning towards an adrive with the browser as an sfs. The question being which browser? I'm still a fan of firefox but as stated earlier, size and stability have become an issue. The ESR versions seem to be a little better and smaller.

adrive is flexible and easily maintained. Maybe a little simpler for the new user as it's invisible. I finally voted above. Palemoon

Using the cropped SFS. CUPS comes up instantly in dillo and it works fine for non-multimedia stuff. Pet was just under 1Mb. Rendering OK. I got my opera bookmarks imported but it was a stretch. No emoticon for that.

[rg66]

OK, the "which browser" question will be put on hold for a short time. I've decided to do an adrive, and most likely the browser as an sfs.

It occurred to me, as I was trying to wake up with a steaming cup of coffee, that a bunch of petget files will need to be edited to accommodate an adrive. After a quick 'grep "installed-packages" *' it appears that they have already been changed to use *-installed-packages which should cover the adrive-installed-packages list as well.

Time for some testing

[Sage]

beta2: Works for me!
Don't believe in 'adrives', '.sfs' s, etc.
Best strategy is to strip the liveCD to bare essentials, just leave Dillo or a CLI browser and concentrate on fire-proof entries in the PPM, which everyone+dog understands and can use to customise on-the-fly, re-master or install to personal preference. Addition of clear textual instructions/advice/guidance only consumes bytes, not Gbs. Then, PPM should appear prominently in the setup panel.

[rg66]

beta2: Works for me!
Don't believe in 'adrives', '.sfs' s, etc.
Best strategy is to strip the liveCD to bare essentials, just leave Dillo or a CLI browser and concentrate on fire-proof entries in the PPM, which everyone+dog understands and can use to customise on-the-fly, re-master or install to personal preference. Addition of clear textual instructions/advice/guidance only consumes bytes, not Gbs. Then, PPM should appear prominently in the setup panel.

Glad beta2 is working for you.

Not sure if I agree, a bare essentials ISO might leave a new user even more lost. Having an adrive shouldn't really make a difference, it's basically invisible to the user. The built in remaster script is sketchy at best and leaves a lot of things out of the build.

[rg66]

I seem to have sorted out PPM to handle the adrive, hopefully. There were only a few lines each to edit in 2 scripts. Other scripts that will probably need editing are remove_builtin and remaster2. The remaster script will be a nightmare, and as I've stated above, doesn't really work that great. I'm going to have a look at the Carolina remaster script, it already has the adrive bits.

Anyway, so far so good. I'm posting this from a test frugal with apps removed from main and put in an adrive. All deps have been left in the main so far.