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Precise Puppy 5.7.1
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3602
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:33    Post subject:  

Hi, april.

april wrote:
Mike Walsh- Off subject Mike but do you run tahrpup on the same machine or a 64 bit job?


I no longer run Tahrpup on the Dell. I used to; it's 2002 vintage, and is lumbered with an awful graphics chip; Intel's 'Brookedale-cored', 'Extreme Graphics' adapter from the same time period. Nothing about it is normal at all; Intel flipped the bird to VESA standards when they built the thing. The original Tahrpup was the first Linux distro I ever found that would run on it without problems.

I'd tried a few others; Lubuntu, Zorin Core, Mint, a couple of other Puppies.....but all had a common problem. The display (which is 14.1", and 1024 x 768) would always reduce down to 640 x 480, and jam itself into the top left-hand corner. It wasn't until I tried Micko's Slacko 570 again, and read the release notes for it, that I discovered the only cure for it was two-pronged. I needed to upgrade the BIOS, and then employ the 'i915.modeset=0' workaround on the kernel line in Grub4DOS.

The BIOS upgrade proved easy, having found a site (www.bay-wolf.com) who specialise in Dell notebook & laptop BIOS upgrades, supplied as mini-ISO images. Burn it to CD, run it.....two minutes later, all sorted. Went into the BIOS, and set the video buffer up according to Micko's instructions. Installed 570 (again!), edited the kernel line; whooo, it worked..! Ace. This was only a few months ago; ever since, I've just been having fun...

I fitted a 64GB PATA/IDE SSD in early January; the original HDD was only 20GB. She now quad-boots; Win XP, Precise 5.7.1 (which has always been a favourite of mine); rg66's X-Slacko 2.3.2 (570 + XFCE, another favourite).....and ETP's 'Chromebook' Pup, which is Precise 571 with the Openbox window manager and LX Panel (another very neat 'Pup'.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To get back to your original question, well; I run two instances of Tahrpup, both the 32-bit version, both @ 6.05. One is a USB install, which I keep around for all sorts of fixes & repair jobs. The other, my main one, runs on a 64-bit machine, although it's 32-bit. It's a 10-yr old Compaq Presario desktop PC, made shortly before the HP takeover ( and consequently, far better made), with an MSI Socket 939 board, running the brilliant Athlon 64 (originally a single-core, now using an X2 dual-core).

(starhawk doesn't like these; he reckons they're primitive, heavy on the juice, and barely usable.....he's told me so, too. He's still a 'good ole boy', for all that. Laughing Anyways, it's me who has to use it; and for my use-case, it does exactly what I ask of it...)

I've tried a few of the 64-bit Pups, but I just don't like them; personal taste, I guess. The 32-bits run so bloody fast on there, their feet don't touch the ground. 64-bit (with the exception of FatDog), is still in the early stages as far as Puppy's concerned.....and I simply don't like FatDog. The other problem I have with some of the newer developments is that it's becoming popular to dd images straight to a FAT32 partition.....and since upgrading the BIOS to accommodate the dual-core Athlon last year, the Compaq will no longer boot from FAT32. It refuses. Doesn't want to know. Must be the BIOS, 'cos it would happily boot from FAT32 before the upgrade. But I had to use this newest BIOS for that board, to get the support for the dual-core. And it's made a hell of a difference to multi-tasking. I can live without the FAT booting!

@ starhawk:

Fair do's about putting it aside. I was only trawling (as you do) when I came across this thread; in all fairness, it does sound like your CardBus socket's 'up the creek', and I doubt you'll get much joy out of it.

Just out of curiosity, what did you mean when you said that thread was rather premature? You've lost me there.


Mike. Wink

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Last edited by Mike Walsh on Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:52; edited 1 time in total
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april


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1118
Location: Green Island baby! Drowning in fresh for a month

PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:46    Post subject:  

@ starhawk: OK youve made your mind up so lay in it.
I didn't say I don't know what it is , I said I did not understand it. Big difference .

Quote:
I have tried three or four cards (I actually want to say four), at least one of which used the ancient 'prism2' driver. I get a zero percent success rate across all cards. There is something to do with the CardBus interface that's gone south, here, rather than anything with any particular card.


Hey?? Thats a new bit that wasn't mentioned before.

You won't give detail so I think you are hiding something and just wasting my time . Its pretty easy to get a console response and put it in a post so why don't you? Even screenshots are simple in puppy

@Mike - Thats interesting . I'll study what youve said because I find Precise 32bit won't boot on my Dell Optiplex 64 bit machine and I don't understand why not . Its a complex field though This one works with that one but not another OS etc

Last edited by april on Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:56; edited 1 time in total
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starhawk

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:55    Post subject:  

@ april -- no conspiracy. Laid it out pretty plain in my post. Don't want to believe me...? Your choice. Not something I can do anything about, except to say I was honest, which I was.

As for the modem/router -- there's not much to understand, it takes in a cell phone signal (4g in this case) and spits out Ethernet and WiFi. If you want to look it up, it's a Netgear MBR1515 made to work with Verizon Wireless.

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april


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 18:58    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:
@ april -- no conspiracy. Laid it out pretty plain in my post. Don't want to believe me...? Your choice. Not something I can do anything about, except to say I was honest, which I was.

As for the modem/router -- there's not much to understand, it takes in a cell phone signal (4g in this case) and spits out Ethernet and WiFi. If you want to look it up, it's a Netgear MBR1515 made to work with Verizon Wireless.


Yes but to unerstand it you must work with it and get it connected and get inside it and change stuff . I have not done that so I don't try to advise on equipment I have not seen intimately . See the post though . Why don't you post the output from the command??

Whats it giving you for an IP , what is it setting up as a DNS If you can't find that then you have not looked properly

Code:
#  ifconfig wlan0
wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 90:F6:52:06:77:FD 
          inet addr:192.168.0.3  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:6811 errors:0 dropped:1406 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:5987 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:7682306 (7.3 MiB)  TX bytes:934787 (912.8 KiB)

#



I don't think you know what you are doing so you are getting it wrong and I don't think you will take the time to get to the nitty gritty and understand it.
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starhawk

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 19:22    Post subject:  

Like I told you, there's no point. Two thirds of what you asked for doesn't exist at the point where it all goes bang, and the remaining part is irrelevant.

No IP address is ever assigned. There's no DNS yet at that point. It gives up as it's connecting because the computer cannot ready/activate/"raise" the interface. There is something happening in the system hardware and its interaction with the software that runs the card interface -- before it gets to the actual card -- that simply can't get out of bed.

The reason I say that is because, as discussed, the issue is card-agnostic. I can put in ANY CardBus wireless adapter and it is guaranteed to be 100% fail in that system. I've tried three or four now, including at least two that use the ath5k driver and one that uses the prism2 driver. The issue persists across all cards tried. (Worth noting, the guy who gave me the prism2 card described it as "works in absolutely everything" -- but, then, he's only the guy who runs the town's computer shop and contracts with most of the local businesses for tech support.)

The issue also involves any and all Network Wizards I've tried. Pwireless 1, four different versions of Frisbee, SNS, Dougal's (which is too impatient anyways; there is literally zero chance of that computer crunching numbers fast enough to associate with a network in thirty seconds), you name it.

Those things put together, tell me that we're not dealing with anything that's strictly networking related. In fact, I'd put down money, if I had it, that a CardBus USB card or printer port card or whatever wouldn't work reliably, either.

Honestly, we're at the point where I'd like to take out the CardBus cage and have a look at how it connects in hardware, check for damage to that, and maybe pull the number off the interface chip, to see if whatever lump of driver code out there for it is actually claimed to be fully functional.

See, I'm a hardware guy. I can understand the signals on the wires in between the chips. I can lay that stuff out, to a point... give me a logic probe or an oscilloscope any dang day. Either is more useful to me than *any* coding environment. I know this stuff!

That said, the card cage in question is attached to the underside of the motherboard in such a manner that taking it out is a one-way trip. This is actually the second CPi I've had (the first had major video issues; I suspect the graphics chip was rather off-kilter) and taking that card cage out was how that system wound up meeting its end. I couldn't get the cage back on, and without it the system was worth so little that it wound up getting recycled. I literally took it to the dump. The dang thing goes together like a 3-D jigsaw puzzle, to the point that if you're not a Dell factory, you're not going to get it back together. It's absolutely maddeningly insane.

I might poke around on eBay -- I don't trust lsmod for this, oddly enough -- and see if I can find a good photo of the part. If I can, and I can get a chip number, that's enough to see what the correct driver is. I can verify whether that driver is loaded with lsmod -- that I *do* trust it for, and only that -- and I can read just barely enough C to find out what's going on where, and maybe see if there's missing functionality in that driver.

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starhawk

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 20:45    Post subject:  

Easier find than that. I have a site bookmarked that lists detailed specs for this old heap Dell. Cardbus controller was listed there -- it is a Texas Instruments PCI1131, which uses the yenta_socket driver. It's old enough that I'd think it'd be supported...

Anyway, lsmod reports the following modules loaded when I stick that D-Link card in...

arc4 / ath5k / mac80211 / ath / cfg80211 / rfkill

arc4 is a cryptographic sort of thing and (if I understand it) a reimplementation of the RC4 cryptographic protocol. It underlies both WPA and WEP communications as the encryption used (at least sort of) in them.

ath5k is the specific driver for the card.

mac80211 allows "softMAC" configuration -- software control of WiFi and wired networking devices. Basically.

ath is the common stuff for the ath5k / ath9k / etc drivers. In other words, it's a separate kernel module that contains things they *all* need and want, and generally makes them work.

cfg80211 is a configuration module that generally lets WiFi crap work.

rfkill raises and lowers WiFi cards, either by way of a software command or by way of a hardware switch. On this particular system, it would be the former, as there are no hardware switches to configure any sort of networking anything.

Of all of these, the second, fourth, and last are the most relevant. 'ath5k' and 'ath' indicate that the card is recognized correctly and has the proper driver. rfkill has some potential for interference, so it's worth looking at.

Typing 'rfkill list' at the # prompt reveals that the card is recognized and is neither "soft blocked" nor "hard blocked" -- that is, there is nothing that is holding it from being activated, by way of software command or hardware switch -- or, well, there shouldn't be anything like that.

The specific output is --
Code:
# rfkill list
0: phy0: wlan
     Soft blocked: no
     Hard blocked: no
#


If I run ifconfig, I see nothing out of the ordinary. For the sake of posterity, however --

Code:
#ifconfig
lo     Link encap:Local Loopback
       inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
       UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
       RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
       RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)   TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

wlan0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:13:46:9F:CD:5C
       UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
       RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
       RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)   TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

#


If I then bring up Frisbee, and try and connect, it reports a successful connection, and ifconfig's response is now --

Code:
#ifconfig
lo     Link encap:Local Loopback
       inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
       UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
       RX packets:224 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:224 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
       RX bytes:17184 (16.7 KiB)   TX bytes:17184 (16.7 KiB)

wlan0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:13:46:9F:CD:5C
       UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
       RX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:7 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
       RX bytes:424 (424.0 B)   TX bytes:2223 (2.1 KiB)

#


If I ping Google, however, this is what I get --

Code:
# ping 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8): 56 data bytes
ping: sendto: Network is unreachable
#


...however, things are supposed to be working. But they aren't.

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april


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar 2016, 01:49    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:

Anyway, lsmod reports the following modules loaded when I stick that D-Link card in...

arc4 / ath5k / mac80211 / ath / cfg80211 / rfkill

ath5k is the specific driver for the card.

ath is the common stuff for the ath5k / ath9k / etc drivers. In other words, it's a separate kernel module that contains things they *all* need and want, and generally makes them work.

Of all of these, the second, fourth, and last are the most relevant. 'ath5k' and 'ath' indicate that the card is recognized correctly and has the proper driver. (No it doesn't. It indicates the driver supplied by puppy is loaded .It does not ensure it works . Thats the point I'm trying to make you aware of and you keep moving past it !)The rest below is not anything I remember doing when my adaptor didn't work .
wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet etc -This looks wrong to me if you have a radio connection -No IP 192.168.?.? Where is your local network then ?
-Mine shows
wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 90:F6:52:06:77:FD
inet addr:192.168.0.3 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 -
Setting it up as part of my local network established by my router
Anyway its for others now. I'm gone


rfkill has some potential for interference, so it's worth looking at.

Typing 'rfkill list' at the # prompt reveals that the card is recognized and is neither "soft blocked" nor "hard blocked" -- that is, there is nothing that is holding it from being activated, by way of software command or hardware switch -- or, well, there shouldn't be anything like that.

The specific output is --
Code:
# rfkill list
0: phy0: wlan
     Soft blocked: no
     Hard blocked: no
#


If I run ifconfig, I see nothing out of the ordinary. For the sake of posterity, however --

Code:
#ifconfig
lo     Link encap:Local Loopback
       inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
       UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
       RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
       RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)   TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

wlan0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:13:46:9F:CD:5C
       UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
       RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
       RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)   TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

#


If I then bring up Frisbee, and try and connect, it reports a successful connection, and ifconfig's response is now --

Code:
#ifconfig
lo     Link encap:Local Loopback
       inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
       UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
       RX packets:224 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:224 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
       RX bytes:17184 (16.7 KiB)   TX bytes:17184 (16.7 KiB)

wlan0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:13:46:9F:CD:5C
       UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
       RX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
       TX packets:7 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
       collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
       RX bytes:424 (424.0 B)   TX bytes:2223 (2.1 KiB)

#


If I ping Google, however, this is what I get --

Code:
# ping 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8): 56 data bytes
ping: sendto: Network is unreachable
#


...however, things are supposed to be working. But they aren't.
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starhawk

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar 2016, 11:34    Post subject:  

@april -- even though you will, in all likelihood never read this --

If it's the ath5k driver, how does that explain that the card needing a prism2 driver (which also gets correctly recognized, and the correct driver assigned) fails in a 100% identical way -- something I've mentioned several times over the past several posts...

The correct answer is that the theory you propose (that it's the ath5k driver) doesn't explain the failure of the prism2 card -- and that's why we can eliminate that theory as not making sense. If it were JUST the ath5k driver, that's one thing. But it's not, and that changes the situation -- the chances of two drivers of the same approximate type being corrupt in the same OS are surprisingly high, to the point that one can write it off as "not gonna happen".

This is basic troubleshooting stuff, yo... and I'm not even that good at it. (TBH I'm actually kind of awful.)

But you've bowed out anyways, so I'm just talking to myself.

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar 2016, 13:23    Post subject:  

april wrote:
@ starhawk:
Quote:
I have tried three or four cards (I actually want to say four), at least one of which used the ancient 'prism2' driver. I get a zero percent success rate across all cards. There is something to do with the CardBus interface that's gone south, here, rather than anything with any particular card.


Hey?? Thats a new bit that wasn't mentioned before.

You won't give detail so I think you are hiding something and just wasting my time . Its pretty easy to get a console response and put it in a post so why don't you? Even screenshots are simple in puppy



This is a late introduced circumstance and requires a separate look at.
On the face of it it seems logical that if they alldon't work in that card interface the interface could be bad.

I think however the real reason you don't give too much detail is you want to advertise yourself and your byline on here. You probably have found that you did not understand or follow the setup advice given at first anyway and have now gone back and gotten it to work. Your logic makes about as much sense as your by-line.

As I have said elsewhere ,there is a problem with these radio devices in Puppy and Linux in general. People are working on it but very slowly. There are many different chips and drivers.

Here is one for example [url] http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=106015[/url]

The other cards in that interface may well need adjusted and recompiled drivers to run properly . They mostly all connect but then drop out immediately and need keep alive prompts to stay connected .

You however seem to have trouble understanding that .

I ask again " Where is your local network IP ? Your device has not been allocated one from what you have shown so far.
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starhawk

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar 2016, 14:23    Post subject:  

As previously reported multiple times, it doesn't get that far! No IP is ever assigned. It dies before that point. You know, if you'd actually bother to read the full content of my posts, I'd start making a lot more sense.

New information: it dies just after requesting the IP address. I hadn't mentioned that before, because I'd forgotten it, and not thought it relevant.

Considering, by the way, that the ath5k driver is what runs a lot of those cards from the era of CardBus WiFi cards -- I think we'd know by now if it was the ath5k driver. That's the sort of blooper that doesn't get out of beta testing. Even if it somehow miraculously did escape beta and make its way to the full version, surely by now we'd have a mess of reports about it in the Beginner's Help section of the forum? That one would be such a doozy that there'd either be a loud announcement somewhere about a patch, or that they would have released a 572 and 572 Retro to deal with it. That would constitute a major issue, dude.

Logically, since none of that ever happened -- no noise, no patch, no revisions -- it has to be unique to my hardware. That in and of itself eliminates the card. If you go on eBay, something like twenty-four out of twenty-five CardBus WiFi cards will be based on a chipset requiring the ath5k driver. No, really! I looked... it's hard NOT to get a card that needs the ath5k driver. That group of chipsets is damn near ubiquitous.

Therefore, the issue would most reasonably lie, not with the card proper, but with the driver chip or something further up in the plumbing. That is, it's unique to my hardware configuration, the laptop itself.

...as for the continued conspiracy theories...

I am neither a bot nor a living billboard, nor am I some sort of anti-religious crusading nutball. To give this idea far, far more of an answer than it really deserves -- I am neither out-and-out against religion, nor belonging to any particular religion, faith, or group. Religion and I don't get along on a personal level, but if you're on better terms, that's fine. It's not my business what other people get out of religion, just that it doesn't do anything, really, for me -- and there are a lot of people in a couple fairly prominent religions that do some very, very bad things, I think -- things that go directly against what they claim to believe in. I don't want to be associated with those sorts of people, and so I choose not to partake in their religions.

If I were preaching something (I'm not, actually) it would simply be mindfulness -- the idea that one should know what one believes in, through-and-through, and one should adhere to those beliefs, and the teachings and all behind them, in a reasonably accurate manner. I'm not against any one religion, or religion in general, or anything like that. What I am against is hypocrisy -- in *all* forms. That's really all there is to it.

As for the assertion that I am somehow computationally incompetent, I find that equal parts deeply offensive, hilarious, and kind of sad. If that's your explanation for why you don't understand me, I feel bad for you...

My mother has a photo somewhere of me reaching for a keyboard, eyes full of wonder, at all of six months of age. By the time I took that A+ Certification course in high school (2003-4), I wasn't far from being able to teach the damn thing myself. (Well... in terms of raw knowledge, no -- public speaking and such has never been my thing.) At this point in time I tinker with computers on a near-daily basis -- not to mention that I have been able to lay out designs for Seventies- and Eighties-style single board computers similar to say the Sinclair MK14 or the MOS Technology (and, later, Commodore) KIM-1. You can say, oh it's just a bunch of chips on the board -- now tell me what each of those chips does and how it communicates. I actually understand that crap. The other day I was working on an Arduino based project and using a logic probe and oscilloscope. You probably have never heard of either one, nor would have a clue what they're for or how to use them.

Don't tell me I'm incompetent or an idiot just because you can't understand me -- or for any other reason. My mother did better than to raise herself a damn fool.

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar 2016, 17:45    Post subject:  

You have just declared what you are . No more needs be said
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar 2016, 17:48    Post subject:  

Did you see the first part of the post where I responded to the, er, more constructive portion of your request...?
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Mar 2016, 07:21    Post subject:  

Please don't PM me . I did not read it and will not . Place it publicly here if you wish to say something to me and I will read it here.

I have never understood the need for pm's
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Mar 2016, 11:12    Post subject:  

PMs are for things that don't belong in public, or things that people don't want to say in public.

Last time I posted a PM someone got very mad at me. So, not doing that again.

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 13:43    Post subject:  

It appears that you deleted the PM... oh well, your loss.

For the record there was nothing disagreeable in there... but I am neither resending it (as I can't without rewriting it, which is a task I see no point in) nor am I posting its approximate contents for all to see -- like I said, the last time I publicly posted PM material, it got someone very angry at me, so I'm not willing to do that any more.

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