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Lighthouse 64 602 Beta2 with GIMP-2.8.4 (6-29-2013)
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu 30 Jul 2015, 11:01    Post subject: Re: Usbinstall disaster in 602b2Mariner
Subject description: booby traps and a hopeless ending with USBflash install
 

rcrsn51 wrote:
otropogo wrote:
Why - because, strangely, while you're allowed to save your save file to hdd when booting from the LiveCD, once you've installed to a flash device, you can only save your configurations and applications, and everything else you want to load at next boot, to the same USBflash device.

Use ISObooter and the instructions on page 10. Change "initrd.gz" to "initrd.xz".


Thanks for your suggestion. Have only time to read the linked data cursorily, but it seems to me this wouldn't be a workable solution for me:

1. I want to avoid Grub altogether

2. I don't want to be loading the OS into RAM from a flash card every time I boot, or worse, running the OS from a flash card.

3. I don't want to be limited by the size of the flash card used to boot.

It seems to be a useful tool for portability, but I hardly ever use a different PC, so that doesn't offset any of these issues for me.

The system used in the lupu usbflash installation is much smaller and simpler. Basically, once you've set the USBflash card to boot from the hdd, it just runs , which finds the sfs and the save files on the hdds, and you can cofigure it to look at all the hard drives for the distro sfs or just in specific locations, and alter this at the boot prompt if needed.

It's not perfect, and could be easily improved, if someone took an interest. But it works.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Jul 2015, 11:40    Post subject: Requesting nVidia setup guidance for PUPPY users  

Hello @Otropogo

I think I understand what you share. Summary:
  1. System boots OK to desktop from DVD
  2. You filled in FirstRUN (Personalized Settings) with all the local settings you desired.
  3. Seems all goes well in its use for that booted session

Questions
  • Where did you do your initial save-session? (DVD or somewhere else or both over time)
  • As far as you could tell, did Mariner discover all of your PCs peripherals, OOTB: HDD partitions, USB devices, sound, LAN cards, etc.?
Let us know if files on peripherals can be seen and devices are functioning.

ALSO
From your description, which did you do next? I can see efforts at changing drivers and efforts at moving LH64 to your media devices. Which would you prefer to run normally: Live DVD, Frugal, or Full. (note: booting from many peripherals does NOT offer any boot speed increases over Live DVD. ,,, excepting HDDs/SSDs)

nVidia Setup
I have always found this to be problematic with all of the PUPs I use, so I understand your driver install frustrations. Seem somewhere early on in this thread, one member provides some insight and guidance to exactly that.

Request to anyone reading
    Is there a thread that gives a How to set of steps to add nVidia and use xorgwizard to change the driver, where it is clear and straightforward in PUPs?

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 774
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu 30 Jul 2015, 17:11    Post subject: Re: Requesting nVidia setup guidance for PUPPY users  

gcmartin wrote:
Hello @Otropogo

...
  1. System boots OK to desktop from DVD




Not quite. There was difficulty first in recognizing the ethernet card, then in makinfg the connection. There was also trouble with a black screen instead of display. I had to reboot a couple of times before I got a desktop, no idea how it resolved, but then no options for resolution were offered. Might have to do with dual displays connected and/or dual display adapters, the other being Intel.

[
Quote:
*]You filled in FirstRUN (Personalized Settings) with all the local settings you desired.
  • Seems all goes well in its use for that booted session
    Questions


  • No nothing got saved, as it turns out, no firewall setup no time zone. Obviously a write problem, but there were no error messages.

    [
    Quote:
    list][*]Where did you do your initial save-session? (DVD or somewhere else or both over time)


    I booted first from a rewritable LiveCD, which was NOT written multisession (at least, that's not what I ordered). While in that session, I also tried to install to falsh USB, twice. Maybe that got Lighthouse confused...

    When I rebooted, nothing got saved, its seems. I didn't have time to really check out all the hardware, or any of it, really.

    One thing I did notice is that my wireless mouse woulsdn't work as it does in Windows, attached to a USB port on the external keyboard attached to a USBhub. It wouldn't work attached directly to the hub either. I had to plug it in directly to one of the laptop's precious usb3.0 ports before it would work (sluggishly).


    [*
    Quote:
    ]As far as you could tell, did Mariner discover all of your PCs peripherals, OOTB: HDD partitions, USB devices, sound, LAN cards, etc.?
    [/list]Let us know if files on peripherals can be seen and devices are functioning.


    You'll have to tell me which app to use for that.

    [
    Quote:
    b]ALSO[/b]
    From your description, which did you do next? I can see efforts at changing drivers and efforts at moving LH64 to your media devices. Which would you prefer to run normally: Live DVD, Frugal, or Full. (note: booting from many peripherals does NOT offer any boot speed increases over Live DVD. ,,, excepting HDDs/SSDs)


    I want to boot and save the way I've been doing for three or four years with Lupu528, boot with the bootloader on a flash card, load the main sfs and any additional sfs from the PC's hard drive, run in RAM, and save back to the save file on the hdd. It's hugely faster than anything you can do from a LiveCD/dVD and it frees up the burner almost immediately so you can use it for other things.

    Quote:
    nVidia Setup
    I have always found this to be problematic with all of the PUPs I use, so I understand your driver install frustrations. Seem somewhere early on in this thread, one member provides some insight and guidance to exactly that.

    Request to anyone reading
      Is there a thread that gives a How to set of steps to add nVidia and use xorgwizard to change the driver, where it is clear and straightforward in PUPs?


    That's a minor issue, compared to what I just discovered today, trying to do the same thing on my wife's non-UEFI Windows 7 laptop, that still runs Lupu.

    NB: IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO WRITE TO ANY NTFS PARTITION WITH THIS INSTALLATION, BECAUSE THE NTFS MODULE IS DEFECTIVE.

    It took a lot of work and frustration to fix this three years ago by finding and installing (with the help of others, of course) a working NTFS-3G module. I really didn't think this ugliness would rear its head again.

    If nothing else, there should be a warning in the installation instructions that you're wasting your time trying to save your save file to an NTFS partition. It's only at the very end, when you go to shut down the liveCD boot and select the partition, that you get this message "...NTFS-3G driver unable to mount the partition... using internal driver to mount in read-only mode...".

    So even the liveCD/DVD option won't work for me unless I'm willing to create a fat or Linux partition on the hard drive for Lighthouse which I won't be able to access from within Windows...

    What bugs me about this persistent flaw is that it's probably a well considered deliberate choice motivated by dubious principles. I hope a simple fix is available or it's Sayonara Lighthouse for me.

    Should be able to find the old discussion in the lucid528 thread by looking for NTFS-3G.

    One other tip DON'T use the COMBO usbflash option. For some reason it creates two partitions, without asking or being asked, then tries to install Mariner in the smaller one, and then tries to boot from the one that was left empty! I finally succeeded in booting from flash by choosing USB HD install, legacy.

    But, as I said in the previous post, you'd better use a fast (ie. expensive) USBFlash card with at least 8GB of space., because all your sfs files will have to be on that card, and will have to be loaded into memory from it every time you use them. And shut down will be delayed too, because LH seems to like waiting until the end to save any changes you've made.

    Oh, almost forgot. It doesn't shut down properly either. I had to do hard power down every time on both the win7 and win8 machines-slow, frustrating, hard on the on/off buttom. And on a laptop like mine, on which the only access to the battery is by removing 10 tiny #5 torx screws on the base, and then another three screws on the battery, your hardware could easily fry while you're trying to shut down.

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    edoc


    Joined: 07 Aug 2005
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    Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

    PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul 2015, 10:35    Post subject:  

    Why not use the updated and more actively supported Just-Lighthouse tribute version?

    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99712

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    otropogo


    Joined: 24 Oct 2009
    Posts: 774
    Location: Montreal

    PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul 2015, 14:05    Post subject: NTFS-3G still doesn't work in Fatdog64, April 2015  

    edoc wrote:
    Why not use the updated and more actively supported Just-Lighthouse tribute version?

    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99712


    Does it support R/W access to ntfs filesystem? I couldn't find any reference to ntfs-3g or to "tribute" on the page you linked above.

    I googled "Just Lighthouse ntfs-3G" and found nothing except my own post of yesterday. If it had been fixed, I assume Google would have found a reference...

    So while there may be more active support for this version, it's still inadequate for my needs.

    It seems there are still Linux "purists" who believe the one shouldn't be able to have write access to ntfs files from within Linux. A stance that benefits only Microsoft, it seems to me.

    Apparently this attitude prevails in Just Lighthouse and FatDog64 coding circles.

    I did find a command line option that creates R/W access temporarily, and only for root. But I don't see how this could be workable in my intended installation.

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    edoc


    Joined: 07 Aug 2005
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    PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul 2015, 14:13    Post subject:  

    I asked on the JL64-603 thread on your behalf and included a link to this thread.
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    edoc


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    PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 10:01    Post subject:  

    otropogo - if you go to this linked thread and scroll down on page 12 there's a brief discussion of the problem and solution ... HTH ...

    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99712&start=165

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    otropogo


    Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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    Location: Montreal

    PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug 2015, 13:56    Post subject:  

    edoc wrote:
    otropogo - if you go to this linked thread and scroll down on page 12 there's a brief discussion of the problem and solution ... HTH ...

    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99712&start=165


    Well, it's the usual leap before you look "solution".

    It helped me to waste another hour or so. I suppose it may have helped in narrowing the problem down the the Lighthouse installer module charged with installing the L64 save file from the LiveDVD.

    On the downside, this seems to suggest even more forcefully that the defect is deliberately engineered to frustrate routine booting of the distro from removable media:

    1. the USBflash install:

    a) requires a large, fast (ie. expensive) external flash card, and

    b)a USB3.0 port or be limited to maximum transfers of 20MB/s

    c) even with a) and b), will still be much slower to boot and run than with main sfs and other sfs files loaded from hdd

    d) will monopolize the USB port for the entire session

    2. the LivedCD/DVD install:

    a) requires a DVD burner to boot and run (to save the the installed programs, configuration and data)

    b) will be severely limited as to number of programs/amount of data saveable, given the 4GB storage limit of a DVD

    c) be horribly slowed by the read/write speeds of the burner

    d) will monopolize the burner for the entire session (you'll need a second burner to burn or read another disk while using Lighthouse64)

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    gcmartin

    Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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    PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2015, 11:04    Post subject:  

    Having used DVDs for many PUP years, I am not sure I have had your brief experiences: Sharing my knowledge of your points ...
    1. EVERY
      64bit x86 PC sold (excepting those few Netbooks and the later tablets) comes with a writable DVD (unless of course you did a custom build of your PC)
    2. In my years of using a DVD for FATDOG and LightHouse64, I have never "filled" a DVD. In my case, I do NOT store any user data in my PUP's filesystems, so all of my personal data, multimedia files, and custom apps are saved on my local HDD media.Thus, the only things hitting my DVD is things related to LH64, its config files, and its subsystems
    3. A LH64 boot runs in RAM, not from the DVD on your PC that you are using. I cannot see you ever exhausting RAM to load LH64/JLH to run your apps on your system.
    4. The burner is free when you PC arrives at desktop. If it is not, please share that experience as maybe we can spot what went wrong in the boot process.
    When I recommended LH64, was to see if it would boot without issues and discover all of your PC's hardware with little to no issues. Having used it for as many years as I have, I have found it successful in hardware discovery across many platforms. As nice a distro as this is, we have lost the knowledge of the author thru natural causes. But, the community has attempted to assist user use, knowing we have a fallen member.

    I think you know the reason for recommending you boot and initially use-save via DVD: It was to insure that at this simple use, it arrives and operates as you would want for an application machine. Following this kind of success and insuring if offers app use, services, configuration needs, session saves, etc you would know whether is now a distro to match your use need. Then, next, it should be easy to select a path to get the system to either kind of Frugal requirement you would want.

    So, if it appears that this is meeting the boot elements of your system, we are now faced with the task of the steps to take to get you to a configuration you will be most satisfied with. Our options are varied with this (or any) PUP to get to that next level, easily and knowing what to expect when we get there.

    With your PC's hardware, this seemed, at the time, a good approach to take advantage of your PC's hardware in your favor.

    If you are not willing to give up, there is a chance we can help you get there. But, I think, we must get you to a point of stability and the Live media testing helps to establish if it is meeting that minimum criteria. Please outline where you feel the point of getting to some level of stability is failing, or. if you have arrived a some level of comfort.


    Here to help
    BTW: I seem to remember the JLH author sharing his findings on NTFS issues in this distro.

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