Need on-screen keyboard with mouse functions

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mikeslr
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Rethinking the Keyboard for single-switch

#31 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,
The following was written before I watched Will's video. But I think most of it holds up. So I'm submitting it "as is" or "was."
The discussion now appears to be entering into a technical area beyond my comfort zone. Except for checking in once and awhile, and seeing if I can recruit others having needed expertise, this may be my last post on this thread.
Although I have always been driven curiosity about everything, shortly after WWII, when I was about 6 and TVs had yet to become mainstream, I took apart the family's radio. No one knew how to fix it and its replacement cost about a week's savings. To say the discussion which followed was not an encouragement of my tinkering with appliances would be euphemistic.
Now that I better understand the problem, at present I have only one thing to add. It will probably complicate things.
We are creatures of habit. Much --perhaps most of what we do, or at least how we do things-- is the result of our internalization of our culture's adaption to its environment, including the existent technology. We learn it, do it, it becomes the way we do it and, thereafter, we don't think about it. Having habits is efficient as anyone will attest who has had to wait while someone else tries to locate keys or eye-glasses “just left someplace.
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Keyboard.jpg
Possible Keyboard Arrangement
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starhawk
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#32 Post by starhawk »

One more question before I give up on my hardware solution.

Can these people reliably tilt their chin forwards, backwards, left, and right, about a half-inch, without problems?

If this gets into pure software I'll have to bow out. I can probably learn arduino code, but even a linux shell script is likely beyond me right now (although I'll have a look if it becomes necessary).

EDIT: even tilting the chin 1/4 or 3/8 inch, would be enough... just need to be able to do it enough to bump into something is all.

standard7452
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#33 Post by standard7452 »

starhawk wrote:One more question before I give up on my hardware solution.

Can these people reliably tilt their chin forwards, backwards, left, and right, about a half-inch, without problems?

If this gets into pure software I'll have to bow out. I can probably learn arduino code, but even a linux shell script is likely beyond me right now (although I'll have a look if it becomes necessary).
Starhawk, I think your hardware solution sounds awesome so I don't want you to think your efforts were in vain for a second.

It's just that the guys who get the shaft on computer access only have a single motion (that isn't even always predictable). So the only way to delineate it is by steps--move mouse, click mouse, wait for A, etc.

Imagine putting a 10kg-20kg weight around your neck and you could only interact if you could put the part in the right place....and you are disabled.

Thank you so much for your help....no good deed goes unchecked.

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#34 Post by starhawk »

OK :oops:

I'm sure someone will help you with a shell script, then. Not something I can really do.

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If the mouse offends thee, pluck it out

#35 Post by mikeslr »

Hi standard7452 and all,

Seems I was mistaken about having little more to add.

I previously indicated that I was able to obtain a functioning version of onboard in jejy69's lxpup-aptget-test by using its included synaptic to install the necessary debs. With onboard onscreen and geany opened clicking the onscreen keys sent the keys selected to geany which displayed them. I'm not certain, however, if onboard is entirely functional under lxpup-aptget. I called up its config module and turned on scanning. Thereafter, various sections of the keyboard were highlighted, but (1) selecting mouse as the keyboard device and checking "mouse only" froze the application except to allow pressing the Enter key to uncheck it and (2) after unchecking "mouse-only" clicking a key on the onscreen keyboard while in the scan mode no longer sent key-strokes to geany. Turning off that mode restored onboard’s communication with geany. Similarly, unless scanning was turned off, onboard did not communicate with either opera or firefox. Hopefully, that problem is simply because I don't really know how to configure onboard or can be overcome. Exploring onboard has overcome my concern that an on-screen keyboard would occasionally obscure other on-screen windows: its display can be dragged and resized so that it uses only space immediately above the taskbar. Although other windows may extend under that display, there's probably a workaround. Interestingly, when set to “grid
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WP51Dos.jpg
Wordperfect5.1 for dos running under dosemu
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ETP
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Need on-screen keyboard with mouse functions

#36 Post by ETP »

Hi Will,

I have found another free Windows webcam solution which, in parallel with this thread, you may want to check out. It looks really good, covering both mouse control and keyboard input purely with head/eye movements. Text to speech is also catered for.

http://www.cameramouse.org

http://www.staggeredspeech.org
Regards ETP
[url=http://tinyurl.com/pxzq8o9][img]https://s17.postimg.cc/tl19y14y7/You_Tube_signature80px.png[/img][/url]
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ETP
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Wordperfect 5.1

#37 Post by ETP »

Hi mikeslr,

Your mention of WP 5.1 brought back a lot of memories. :D :D :D
I used it for years in conjunction with an add-on (The A-Z of WordPerfect) which made it easier to use than Word. It was in essence a collection of macros covering all features. I may still have a copy on one of my archive CDs. Let me know if you wish me to check.
Regards ETP
[url=http://tinyurl.com/pxzq8o9][img]https://s17.postimg.cc/tl19y14y7/You_Tube_signature80px.png[/img][/url]
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#38 Post by greengeek »

Hi standard7452,

forum member SFR has done some fantastic work developing a couple of scripts (attached below) that allow a Puppy to be fully controlled from a single keyboard switch. In their current form the scripts respond to the Pause/Break key that you have requested (and can initially be tested by anyone without having to disassemble the keyboard).

Unfortunately I have not used GOK or Onboard so I don't know if the script will suit your needs with those programs, but I have tested each of them with the xvkbd onscreen keyboard and the combination is very powerful.

The user only needs to run one of these scripts. Although they perform identical tasks they are visually different and it is up to the user to choose which best suits their needs/screen layout etc.

The scripts are as follows:

1) Radar6 places a small window at bottom right of the screen and contains a rotating line within a circle. The rotating line determines the direction that the mouse will travel, and the pause key determines the actions to be performed.

2) Navbar2 places a navigation bar across the top of the screen and uses 8 arrows to display the intended direction of mouse travel, and again, uses the pause key to control actions.

*** DO NOT RUN BOTH SCRIPTS AT THE SAME TIME ***

How does a single key control the actions? Both Radar and Navbar alternate between "choose direction" mode and "choose action" mode and the user simply presses the pause key when they see their preferred direction/action highlighted in the control window.

NOTE : SFR has done a lot of work to make these scripts perform well, but it is important to remember that there are many Pups, many browsers, and a variety of window managers to choose from. Your mileage may vary!! I have been testing with a small number of Pups, and will be testing more combinations, but my first recommendation is that Magoo (which is based on Precise) seems very compatible. There are screenshots below of Radar6 running on Magoo on my netbook. (obviously a bigger screen would suit most users...)

I will describe how I install Radar, but please note that I don't know a lot about the "right way" to do this. (I really don't know all the conventions about where things should go, and how they should be connected together, so I will describe what worked for me). I recommend that you try this script (or any new script for that matter...) on a fresh installation that does not contain important data. The script itself will not cause you any problems but if you are a bad driver and lose control of the mouse you have only youself to blame :-)
If you want to trial Navbar instead of Radar you simply follow the same install steps.

1) Download the attached Radar6 (or Navbar) tar and extract it somewhere. Then place a copy of the extracted folder in /root
2) Click on the radar file inside that folder. You should see the radar window appear at bottom right of the screen. (It should appear on top of all other windows, but if not you may need to shrink other windows enough for it to be always visible)
3) Click the Pause key and you should see the mouse start to move in the direction shown by the radar screen. When you get to where you want to go just hit the pause button again and the radar screen will change to show you the actions you can choose. Just cycle through this process as required
Navbar is similar, but places the control window at the top of the screen so that it doesnt overlap maximised windows below it. At this stage I find radar a little easier to drive than navbar - but both have their advantages.

xvkbd
xvkbd is not a requirement for Radar or Navbar, but it will be a valuable add-on for most users. If the user wishes to type into a document or browser etc you can have xvkbd running in the background, then navigate to the taskbar, select the xvkbd tab (which will bring xvkbd to the front) then click the "focus" key on the xvkbd keyboard, click on the chosen program window, then start typing the text on the keyboard and it will appear in the desired document window. I don't know how xvkbd compares with Onboard but it seems to work well and I found it quite easy to adapt to.

8bit mentioned this post which details the installation and use of xvkbd:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 712#261712
I think the pet will install on most systems, but if not you can manually install the files: Basically you put the xvkbd file somewhere like /usr/bin and click on it when you want it running, or else you can put the file (or a symlink) into the /root/startup folder if you want xvkbd running as soon as Puppy is started.

Some systems also require the two extra libraries mentioned in that post to be added into /usr/X11R7/lib, and then it is necessary to add symlinks with the correct names that xvkbd is looking for. This only has to be done once.

Magoo : Magoo is not a requirement for Radar or Navbar - it just happens to be a Puppy that I like (targeted at vision-challenged or menu-challenged users) and it seems to work well with radar and navbar. It is available as an iso or a .pet
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 472#671472

Now all that's required is to find someone to offer a service grafting 3.5mm mono connectors onto old keyboards so we can tap into the pause key with a footswitch/headswitch or whatever...
Attachments
Radar-0.6.tar.gz
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NavBar-0.2.tar.gz
(51.7 KiB) Downloaded 534 times
Radar6_Magoo_1_.jpg
(95.84 KiB) Downloaded 813 times
Radar6_Magoo_2_.jpg
(92.98 KiB) Downloaded 864 times

standard7452
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#39 Post by standard7452 »

Sorry I have not responded, I was out of town for a funeral...currently reading and looking at all this wonderful info!

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#40 Post by standard7452 »

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so excited this is exactly what I needed for this project.

SFR you have no idea how many people you will help with this...it is better than I could have imagined!

WOW, just WOW!

I will move on to testing with some of the people who will benefit and post results / videos.

And try to come up with a way to thank you all for your efforts!

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mikeslr
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Great Work by SFR

#41 Post by mikeslr »

Hi standard7452,

Yes. Really great work by SFR. No doubt with some encouragement and aiding and abetting by greengeek.

Add the following, per the xvkb site:
"Automatic Click
Set on/off of the automatic click feature and the delay before automatic click is activated. If this feature is set, xvkbd will work as if left mouse button is clicked when mouse pointer is moved on a button and stays long enough. You may want to set Jump Pointer? to OFF to avoid auto-repeating."

I haven't quite figured out how best to use magoo perhaps because I think Magoo-MK129 is broken. (Will email author). But in any event, geany text editor can be run mouseless. I've given up efforts to include WordPerfect for Dos via dosemu since, to make it compatible with Linux apps its native file format could not be used (readable only by LibreOffice, maybe OpenOffice) and if docs are saved as mere text it has little to recommend it over geany.
"A" Magoo modified to substitute geany and other "mouseless" apps would be a very useful interface for this project.
I'm still trying to figure out how to customize xvkb's interface so as to group the most commonly used letters of the alphabet in a pattern of close-proximity to reduce the necessary mouse movement and delay between desired letters. While xvkbd has built in functions to assignments for special keys, they don't handle "standard" keys. However, xvkbd itself must because in addition to the standard "US" keyboard, you can select already available keyboards as diverse as Dvorak or Korean. [The onscreen key must have a label indicating what letter will be sent to the target application, or function called, and "pressing" the key so labeled must have the desired effect]. I'll write to Tom Sato, xvkbd's creator, as soon as I've thought out a keyboard layout using xvkbd's design rather than the rectangular one of the previous illustration.

mikesLr

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Re: Great Work by SFR

#42 Post by greengeek »

mikeslr wrote: I'll write to Tom Sato, xvkbd's creator, as soon as I've thought out a keyboard layout using xvkbd's design rather than the rectangular one of the previous illustration.
I think it's a great idea to have an alternative layout of keyboard - those who do a lot of typing might find a real productivity boost if the keyboard had all those "couplets" that you listed on it. Why type one letter at a time when you could do it two at a time?

Maybe even a list of several alternative keyboard layouts? One for maths, one for science, etc etc

And please pass on my thanks for xvkbd - it's neat!

standard7452
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#43 Post by standard7452 »

Words cannot express how grateful I am that all of you did this.

I showed my friends this, and they couldn't believe what they saw.

Frankly, I cannot believe what I see.

With a few adjustments to XVKBD everything is done to allow a user to access a computer via a single switch.

You guys could make a fortune billing a government agency with this solution, FYI.

I spend a lot of time trying to help those with disability access a computer. I just don't think its fair that the most vulnerable people need to pay the most.

To me, that is not in the spirit of using a computer or accessing information.

All I can say, is that I am SO impressed you guys have done so much.

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#44 Post by starhawk »

standard7452 wrote:I just don't think its fair that the most vulnerable people need to pay the most.
This.

THIS.

THIS A MILLION FREAKIN' TIMES OVER.

I see this in so many ways, every single day.

Then again, like far too many people -- I am the 99%.

standard7452
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#45 Post by standard7452 »

starhawk wrote:
standard7452 wrote:I just don't think its fair that the most vulnerable people need to pay the most.
This.

THIS.

THIS A MILLION FREAKIN' TIMES OVER.

I see this in so many ways, every single day.

Then again, like far too many people -- I am the 99%.
Well after trying everywhere ( I even put up a $1000 bounty on guru.com) it was the PUPPY people who came through first (no reward)--and I kind of knew it would be.

I am just so impressed with all of you it gives me goosebumps and tears to my eyes...thank you.

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#46 Post by starhawk »

Hey -- help is what we're here for. That's the purpose of this forum. It's as close as you'll ever get to a Puppy call center :D

[political]
Besides, what the government can't or won't do, the rest of us kinda have to pick up and deal with, instead. Especially when it's something that the government /should/ do. Even more so when it comes to things like a social safety net, that ensures that people like those you work with can get along OK in life, or that people like me don't go to bed hungry or homeless.
[/political]

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mikeslr
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Thank you standard7452

#47 Post by mikeslr »

Thank you, Will, for devoting yourself to the care of others, for having the good sense to use the only traits by which man actually distinguishes himself from other animals --the joint abilities to co-operate in the use of individual talents and the expectation that we will at least try. And thank you for giving us tinkerers something worth doing.

mikesLr

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ETP
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Xvkb

#48 Post by ETP »

Greengeek/Mikeslr

A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 7ef936a699

The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/

It works well with Magoo (Netbook) V6, not requiring any extra libs. It is not clear from the manual, but in order to get the “Word Completion
Regards ETP
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mikeslr
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Status Assessment and Wishlist: Assisting Disabled

#49 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

Word Completion:
From the manual there apparently is a module for the user to change the word completion dictionary from the default /usr/share/dict/ to something else. Someone (sorry, not me – my skills aren't adequate) should be able to co-opt a dictionary –say the one used by Abiword-- converting its format, if necessary, and include it by default in an xvkbd pet.

Word completion and automatic scrolling –preferably both-- may be essential in order for our solution to become bearable. I can see why Standard7452 suggested Onboard or GOK. Xvkbd can be set so that if the mouse is NOT moved for a specified period of time it will generate a keypress sending the “letter
Attachments
Keyboard2.jpg
Tentative xvkbd Keyboard based on keypress frequency
(51.72 KiB) Downloaded 815 times

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greengeek
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Re: Status Assessment and Wishlist: Assisting Disabled

#50 Post by greengeek »

mikeslr wrote:Would it be possible to include in either NavBar or Radar6 a routine to automatically move the cursor if no button were pressed?
Interesting idea. That might be a useful "backstop" in case the user is locked into a problem they can't clear, or has maybe lost sight of the cursor.
ETP wrote:A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 7ef936a699
The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/
Thanks ETP. I have just trialled Precise 5.5 with your suggested xvkbd 3.2 and it seems to work well. I also trialled it with SFR's new version of radar and navbar and they look like a good combination

Precise 5.5 download here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precis ... se-5.5.iso

(new versions of radar and navbar with enhanced visibilty attached)
Attachments
radar-0.7+navbar-0.3.tar.gz
(119.13 KiB) Downloaded 334 times
xvkbd-3.2.pet
(46.57 KiB) Downloaded 328 times
Precise55+radar7+xvkbd32_.png
(107.91 KiB) Downloaded 785 times
Precise55+navbar3+xvkbd32_.png
(105.31 KiB) Downloaded 831 times

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