Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??

News, happenings
Message
Author
User avatar
jeff-nelson
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:59
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Contact:

Re: Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??

#16 Post by jeff-nelson »

Hi folks,

I'm Jeff Nelson. I saw your thread and thought I'd add my two cents.

First, let me say that I love Puppy. I've been using it for years. Even at Google, I used my modified version as my primary dev box for 18 months inside Google, because in my opinion it was vastly superior to Google's other internal operating system choices for engineers.

Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??
I don't see how you think I "ripped off" anything.

First, other than a very small bonus for the patent (which is not a patent on Puppy btw) I never made a dime off this whole project. Second, Puppy is GPL and I didn't violate any terms of the GPL. Third, when Chrome OS was released, it was also open sourced.

Clearly "Guppy" is short for "GooglePuppy". Shows the genesis of ChromeOS, and how visionary Barry is.
Yes exactly. It's a Google naming convention to re-engineer an existing product and stick a "G" at the front. So Puppy becomes "Guppy".

My product manager and I quickly changed the name to "Google OS" as that was easier to pitch to management.

The patent I think may relate to something I think either a puplet or early puppy was able to do, involving booting over PXE.
To some extent. I don't want to go into any detail, as its certainly covered by the NDA I signed for Google. Google takes their NDAs and trade secrets very seriously.

Exactly, which make this guys claim to having invented it even more ludicrous.

yes Puppy is released under GPL, so yes anyone can take it, change it and re-release it. But you cant them claim that you created it or that you 'invented' it.
I definitely have never claimed to have invented PuppyLinux. In fact I didn't even bring up the name "PuppyLinux" outside Google - or any other technical specifics of the work I did at that time, that Google might consider covered by their NDA.

Some people are confused why the patent doesn't spell out "Chrome OS" or the full operating system. Patents are not product specifications or design documents. A patent only specify the construction of one small, unique feature that goes into a product.

I had actually written two patents for different features in the Google OS distribution, but Google apparently didn't follow thorough with filing the second patent.

I think what this guy is claiming is that his work on behalf of google formed the foundation of googleOS and ChromeOS and that others are taking the credit for that. He is saying that he put together the initial code that demonstrated the ability for googleOS to tap into online processing power and/or app delivery via an internet connection, and he is saying that this processing power/app delivery was based on google services and google storage.
Yes, thats a very, very roughly accurate summary.

I don't mean to say that I invented everything that goes into an OS, wrote the OS from scratch, or built the computer it ran on, etc.

Yea except thats nothing new either.
I know some commentors are claiming there's no novelty, because Marc Andressen invented the web browser... so... it's not new.

But thats like saying, Grog the Cave Man invented the wheel, so the Toyota Prius is not new.

There's still plenty of room for novelty and innovation in the software industry, despite the fact that related stuff may have occurred in the past.

Now that we have Microsoft at one end of the dipole and Chrome OS at the other end - I hope we will see even more entries into the consumer Operating System Wars. Certainly, I don't think the status quo of consumer operating systems (or web browsers for that matter) is particularly good.

I'm just glad I was at the right place, at the right time, and with the right mindset, to realize the product vision behind Chrome OS, and push Chrome OS through at Google back in 2007.

Having access to an excellent GPL open source Linux distribution like Puppy Linux was definitely a big part of that. And the PuppyLinux community, and Barry Kauler in particular, deserve my thanks.

- Jeff

PS - Now if you want a piece of the patent bonus that Google paid me for this project... I'll buy you half a beer sometime and we'll call it even.
Last edited by jeff-nelson on Fri 22 Feb 2013, 04:26, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jeff-nelson
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:59
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Contact:

googleOS?

#17 Post by jeff-nelson »

I still have a copy of googleOS - I must dig it out and give it another whirl. I seem to remember feeling it was so much less capable than Puppy unless you had a high speed umbilical tying you to a good broadband link. Puppy was faster and could do things offline to...
I'm a little confused by this statement.

Unless you are a Google employee you couldn't possibly have a copy of the original "Google OS" (aka Guppy) distribution that I sent out to a company-wide, internal email list at Google.

Did someone else publish a Linux distribution they called "googleOS" perhaps?

User avatar
NeroVance
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 23:00
Location: Halifax, Canada

#18 Post by NeroVance »

Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.

User avatar
Q5sys
Posts: 1105
Joined: Thu 11 Dec 2008, 19:49
Contact:

#19 Post by Q5sys »

NeroVance wrote:Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.
I agree that this was probably what the other poster meant. gOS tauted itself as, "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the modern user." Even came bundled on the 'Cloudbook' back in the day.
They even went so far as to use the same stylized g for their logo.
Image

More info can be found here: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gos

Image

User avatar
NeroVance
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 23:00
Location: Halifax, Canada

#20 Post by NeroVance »

Q5sys wrote:
NeroVance wrote:Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.
I agree that this was probably what the other poster meant. gOS tauted itself as, "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the modern user." Even came bundled on the 'Cloudbook' back in the day.
They even went so far as to use the same stylized g for their logo.
Image

More info can be found here: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gos

Image
Oh my :lol:

I remember that thing, I wonder what became of that thing?

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#21 Post by starhawk »

@NeroVance: http://gosforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4339

Looks like the dev dude got bored and moved on... or something like that ;)

EDIT: D'oh! Link fixed.
Last edited by starhawk on Fri 22 Feb 2013, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#22 Post by nooby »

I may have tested that greenOS it looks very familiar.
But I have puppies and other linuxes on some 5 different computers
so I am too lazy to boot all of them up just to find out. :)

I am curious on if Greenguy really had the one Jeff talks about
could it not have been Chrome compiled for to be booted on intel cpu
there where such several of them some years ago. Even I manged
to boot one of these but them where android AFAIK.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

Caneri
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue 04 Sep 2007, 13:23
Location: Canada

#23 Post by Caneri »

If all of this is true, then this definitely is a feather in Puppy Linux's hat...congrats to Barry for sure!!

Also, if true, and I have a tendency to think that it is true, I wonder if Google would consider high speed server space for our little project. Just a thought. Some people would recoil at the thought but my mind says growing is good...so grow if possible.

I was going to move to Debian/Ubuntu/BSD etc but as Smokey01 said to me awhile back..."we are Puppy and it works so why move onto another bloated OS...we are happy as clams" (this isn't an exact quote..sorry Grant..but the point is well taken)

I for one am intrigued by the prospect that Puppy finally made it onto phones (one of my original request to Telus Corp).

Resistance is Futile...Eric
[color=darkred][i]Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.[/i]
Chinese Proverb[/color]

User avatar
greengeek
Posts: 5789
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2010, 09:34
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

#24 Post by greengeek »

Yes, that's similar to what I remember. Obviously not googleOS then. Cheeky of them to have passed it off as googleOS though.

User avatar
NeroVance
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed 10 Oct 2012, 23:00
Location: Halifax, Canada

#25 Post by NeroVance »

Caneri wrote:If all of this is true, then this definitely is a feather in Puppy Linux's hat...congrats to Barry for sure!!

Also, if true, and I have a tendency to think that it is true, I wonder if Google would consider high speed server space for our little project. Just a thought. Some people would recoil at the thought but my mind says growing is good...so grow if possible.

I was going to move to Debian/Ubuntu/BSD etc but as Smokey01 said to me awhile back..."we are Puppy and it works so why move onto another bloated OS...we are happy as clams" (this isn't an exact quote..sorry Grant..but the point is well taken)

I for one am intrigued by the prospect that Puppy finally made it onto phones (one of my original request to Telus Corp).

Resistance is Futile...Eric
You got Telus to offer phones with Puppy on them? Neat!

I use Bell (Aliant actually, it's the division in my region), hence who knows. Still, a Canadian service offering excellent phones with Puppy (I hope), that sounds swell.

User avatar
darkcity
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sun 23 May 2010, 19:16
Location: near here
Contact:

#26 Post by darkcity »

The patent I think may relate to something I think either a puplet or early puppy was able to do, involving booting over PXE.

To some extent. I don't want to go into any detail, as its certainly covered by the NDA I signed for Google. Google takes their NDAs and trade secrets very seriously.
If Jeff is the real Jeff then he is virtually admitting Google has patented some technology that already existed in Puppy - and therefore under the GPL license.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#27 Post by musher0 »

amigo wrote:And what is Puppy 'based' off of?
Euh... http://distro.ibiblio.org/amigolinux/ ? :)
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

ICPUG
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon 25 Jul 2005, 00:09
Location: UK

#28 Post by ICPUG »

It is interesting that Puppy was the inspiration to Jeff but it seems to me from Jeff's original post that it was running in RAM that he liked and the patent was something to do with net loading apps.

I don't care really. The whole American patent system is mad - it discourages the small guy and can be used against non-American firms to hinder their ability to compete.

What intrigues me is Amigo's comment that Puppy was not the first Live CD to run in RAM. I am intrigued. It certainly was not the first Live CD but I'd love to know which other Linux ran in RAM by default and was a full blown system like Puppy. Knoppix could be set by cheatcode to run in RAM but the default was to run from CD and you needed a lot of RAM to run solely in RAM. Damn Small LInux was based on Knoppix so did not run in RAM by default. What other small footprint GUI Linux's were around in the early days of Puppy?

User avatar
puppy_apprentice
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue 07 Feb 2012, 20:32

#29 Post by puppy_apprentice »

in 2003 i was testing ByzantineOS - Linux with Mozilla as Desktop, loaded to RAM - something like grandfather (or one of grandfathers?) for FirefoxOS and GoogleOS?

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distri ... yzantineos

amigo
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2007, 06:52

#30 Post by amigo »

I'm pretty sure that Knoppix also loaded to RAM from the very start -before it even had persistence. I tried it out once on an old PII -I think it took about 20 minutes to load to the (KDE2) desktop. Wait, I can already hear the next comment -Yeah, Puppy had to come along and invent fast booting...

User avatar
dk60902
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun 26 Sep 2010, 22:34
Location: In front of my computer

#31 Post by dk60902 »

Not to change the topic, but I always liked the concept of the Chromebooks. Fast booting, always up to date, and the $249 looks like it has decent hardware. Puppy is more versatile, and loading it onto small quality laptop would give a lot of the same capabilities/qualities of a Chromebook, as long as Chromium browser is installed. In addition, one can dual boot with other OS's. I wish I could get Chrome remote desktop to work on Chromium browser in Puppy.
HP Pavilion Mini Pentium 1.7 GHz Dual Core 12 GB RAM 120 GB SSD Linux Lite 3.8 64-bit w/ Kensington Slimblade Trackball
Bionic8.0 Xenial64 Tahr64 USB frugal install
Samsung Chromebook Plus
LG V20 LG Xpression Plus Huawei Ascend XT2

topaz
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu 14 Dec 2006, 20:18
Location: Northumberland UK

#32 Post by topaz »

Hi
Guys
This thread has missed the whole very basic issue.
ANY thing which is built withthe linux kernal as a base cannot have any patent UNLESS that code was develpoed for a none linux system.
Google knows its on bad ground with the google OS and the android patents as they are in the same position as microsoft.

Basicaly google has used the Linux Kernal and have not stayed within the spirit of the Linux ethos.

I will not use google OS because of this very basic issue.

User avatar
puppyluvr
Posts: 3470
Joined: Sun 06 Jan 2008, 23:14
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma
Contact:

#33 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Actually, that`s not the case..
Firstly, he did not patent Puppy, Linux, or any Linux code..
He patented the idea of a "web-centric OS"..
However, Android for example, is based on the Linux kernel..
Does the GPL allow Google to patent:
"The name and image "Android" as it applies to a mobile OS"..
Yes... It does...
What about the software?
OK.. Lets say I write the code from scratch..
If I don`t incorporate any code released under the GPL, even though my code runs on the Linux kernel, I dont have to release it under the GPL.. I then only have to provide the kernel sources, nothing more..
Lets say I do use GPL`d code and software.. Can I patent it.. Can I sell it?
As long as I "provide access to the source code" I sure can..
The GPL doesnt say "you cannot profit from, or own, your work"
As long as you "provide access to the source code" you sure can..
You cant patent GPL`d code itself, but you can patent your "Idea" using it..
For example, lets say I come up with a way to use MTPaint to control Radar installations. I cannot patent the MTPaint software itself, it is GPL..
But I can patent the "use of graphical software as it applies to Radar control"
or some such BS... Just have to provide the MTPaint sources, nothing more...
The GPL doesnt prevent owning YOUR OWN ideas, or code.. Just the use of other GPL code to do so..
So if you write YOUR OWN ORIGINAL code in C, just because it runs on the Linux kernel, does not mean you have to release it GPL.. "Open Source" isnt forced upon you.
Just because it is "The right thing to do" doesnt mean you are bound to do it..
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!

Puppy since 2.15CE...

User avatar
darkcity
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sun 23 May 2010, 19:16
Location: near here
Contact:

#34 Post by darkcity »

Does the GPL allow Google to patent:
"The name and image "Android" as it applies to a mobile OS"..
Yes... It does... ...
The name and image are trademarks, they do not apply to the technology used. You could patent mobile OS technology as long as it didn't use ideas/code substantially taken from ideas/code already under GPL
... Lets say I do use GPL`d code and software.. Can I patent it.. Can I sell it?
As long as I "provide access to the source code" I sure can..
The GPL doesnt say "you cannot profit from, or own, your work" ...
You are right you could sell GPL code, but you couldn't patent it. Unless the idea/code was substantially different - like in your radar example.

topaz
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu 14 Dec 2006, 20:18
Location: Northumberland UK

#35 Post by topaz »

Hi
You did not read my post properly
The words " linux kernal as a base" are the operative words. Google cannot patent any code in a linux distro, that been proven in EU law but not in USA law. But yes the idea and name can be patented. :)

Post Reply