Puppeee 4.4 revisited

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rcrsn51
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#31 Post by rcrsn51 »

Mike7 wrote:Should I use isobooter.tar.gz or isobooter_other-1.0.tar.gz, for installing distros like Tiny Core Linux and Slitaz?
You are running a Puppy, so you will use isobooter.tar.gz. An Ubuntu user who wanted to make bootable flash drives would use isobooter_other-1.0.tar.gz.
I am asuming that ISObooter runs only in Linux. That is, it cannot make bootable pendrives from WindowsXP (the op sys on my hard drive). Is that right?
Correct. There are lots of Windows tools for doing this. One of them is discussed here.
Anecdotally, I tried to use the Puppy Universal Installer that came with Puppeee 4.4, and which was meant only to install Puppy, to put Grub onto a flash drive on which I had already placed the files from an iso of TinyCorePlus 4.7.4. The application allows you to choose where it will install Grub, and I guessed correctly that it was sdc1 (I am running Puppeee from sdb). Grub did get put onto the flash drive, but, probably because I do not know how to edit the files properly, the flash drive still was not bootable. Maybe I get a star for a good try, though <grin>.
The point of ISObooter is that you don't have to unpack the ISO file and guess how to install it.
One last thought for now: Because I had so much trouble trying to install Slitaz on a pendrive (their own tazusb.exe does not work!), I went into the Slitaz forum and asked for help. They told me that Slitaz could not be installed onto a FAT file system, so none of the installers that run in Windows would work. Strangely enough, though, most of those installers list Slitaz as a supported distro. Any comment on this?
There is a difference between booting a distro's Live CD and actually doing a hard drive install. But I just used ISObooter to boot Slitaz off a FAT32 flash drive. It took about 30 seconds to set up.

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Mike7
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#32 Post by Mike7 »

You are running a Puppy, so you will use isobooter.tar.gz.
Okay.
There are lots of Windows tools for doing this. One of them is discussed here.
I am looking into that right now. The prep program looks good.
The point of ISObooter is that you don't have to unpack the ISO file and guess how to install it.
That would be a huge relief.
I just used ISObooter to boot Slitaz off a FAT32 flash drive. It took about 30 seconds to set up.
I plan to try it out first thing tomorrow.

Thanks!

Mike

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Mike7
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#33 Post by Mike7 »

Hi, Rok.

Here's a quickee I've been meaning to ask someone for a long time:
Isn't there a difference between installing an iso on a pendrive and installing the extracted files? If it's the iso, how can it have persistence (in Puppeee, the save file)?

Ubuntu, I believe, creates a separate partition for a casper file for persistence. But how would an iso be able to save changes?

As I understand it, the iso is extracted to RAM. So how do the changes get put back into the iso at the end of a session? It can't be done, can it, without creating a new iso?

Mike

jakfish
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#34 Post by jakfish »

I've been lurking this thread with interest since--using an eee 900--I just moved from an early alpha puppeee (w/ a very-stripped kernel) to Puppy 1.0 Celeron.

1.0 is a great puppeee and doesn't always get its deserved kudos. For one thing, its pwireless2 picks up and connects the 900 the fastest of any puppy I've tried on the eee.

I also think that Chrome serves the 900 very well. jemimah's Chrome is 5, but Chrome 7 will install on top of it nicely:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61075

Chrome 7 is probably the highest you can go on a 4.31 set-up. For me at least, I find this to be the fastest browsing--but for reasons I haven't determined, you can't log-in to Chrome to sync bookmarks, etc. I can live w/ that, I guess, though I'd like to know why.

Mike7, I highly recommend getting an internal ssd for your machine. To be doing all you're doing, and trying to do it on usb only (especially when playing w/ other linux's) could compound problems w/ the beginner's installations.

Also, w/ an ssd, your puppy--even though frugally installed--will fly much faster, since you can store the OS sfs, save file, and other sfs's on the ssd. There's a neat, one-line trick in the syslinux.cfg file to get this to work.

And, lastly, Lubuntu 12.10 has been--at least for me--the definitive Linux for the eee. Everything works OOB, 3-second shutdown, and if it's installed on an ssd, it boots even faster than puppeee. Not to mention that it's au currant, with automatic updates almost daily.

I have run Lubuntu off a USB, a big pain and very slow.

So I have Lubuntu 12.10/XP SP3 on the ssd and Puppy 1.0 booting off a class 10 sd card, but accessing its main files on the ssd. Obviously, XP is the weak link here. My heart is always with puppy, and I run one on all my netbooks, but Lubuntu and the eee are a great pair.

The forum here, as we all know, is the best--far, far better than the Ubuntu forum, which has over 3 million posts, I believe. Posting there is like jumping off the earth.

You seem to have great enthusiasm for this venture--my suggestion is get an ssd and not hamstring yourself w/ missing hardware. Its purchase will make life very much fun :)

The worst kind of advice, free :)
Jake

[/url]

rokytnji
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#35 Post by rokytnji »

Isn't there a difference between installing an iso on a pendrive and installing the extracted files? If it's the iso, how can it have persistence (in Puppeee, the save file)?
Not sure what you are asking. All I can say is how I test MacPup for runtt21.

I download what ever test iso he emails me. I use unetbootin for linux to install the test iso
(by the way, I md5sum check all downloaded files to save headaches in testing later)

I boot the flash drive test iso with the syslinux bootloader provided with unetbootin.
Then after getting to the desktop. I install grub4dos to mbr on the pendrive to get rid of
syslinux bootloader. Why you may ask?

Because grub4dos gives more boot options than syslinux does. After grub4dos is installed. I shutdown and make a 512MB save file ext2 and name it test1(with the date).

Reboot and then set up wireless (which I tested earlier before making save file) and do whatever changes I wish to do to personalize and install certain applications I personally use as part of the test.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 978#647978

That install is a quad booter, (Macpup,Vector,Semplice,AntiX) in my Desktop computer, not pendrive but is a frugal install next to full installs of other linux distros with grub2 and legacy grub, motorcycle shop that I let other bikers play with.

Volhout
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1001ha eeePC

#36 Post by Volhout »

I can support Yakfisk in his choice for Lubuntu 12.10. It really is a good choice for netbooks.

I have a 1001ha eeePC with the standard 1 gig memory, and stille it's original harddisk that has XP sp3 and Lubuntu 12.10 and run puppy from sd card in a grub4dos triboot. 80%of the time I run puppy. Only when apps are missing I fall back to Lubuntu or XP.

But, after running puppeeee for long, I have settled on Slacko 5.3.3. Faster, more stable, and has almost all functions covered that puppeeee has. I did not even bother to replace Seamonkey with Opera (my favorite browser becuase it has turbo that avoids the piratebay blockades we have in Holland).

Good Luck with your investigation. Zorin lite may be an option since it is a Lubuntu derivate.

jakfish
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#37 Post by jakfish »

Huh, Slacko 5.3.3...

It never occurred to me that Slacko might run well on an old eee (though your model has more power than mine).

Thanks for the tip,
Jake

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Mike7
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#38 Post by Mike7 »

Hi, Jake.

Thank you for the suggestions. I will seriously consider putting an SSD in my EeePC as soon as the HDD breaks down, which I fear is not far off.

I agree that Pwireless2 is a great program. The interface, with all its data tabs, is brilliant.

Puppeee 4.4 takes a while to boot. For one thing, it has to put everything in RAM. For another, it has to restore the save file. Considering all that, it's pretty fast. A lot faster than XP (but that's not saying much <grin>.

As a firefox adept, I'm having some trouble getting used to Chrome. I really don't like the way it handles bookmarks. The Firefox bookmark organizer is far clearer, simpler, and faster. And since I have around five hundred bookmarks at this point, that makes a lot of difference.

I am planning to try one of the Ubuntu varieties (maybe Lubuntu; maybe Fuduntu, which was designed for the Eee) as soon as I find a USB installer that works. I will try ISObooter later today.

This is a great forum, like you say. Great people. They'd have to be because Puppy Linux, and perhaps especially Puppeee, are such marvellous systems. The programs packed into the 131Mb of Puppeee 4.4 are amazing. Abiword, for example. And the integrated file managers and word processors. Plus the simple, clear, minimalist GUI and desktop, which beat all the fancy stuff by a mile.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. Since you're a Puppeee user, why not try out Puppeee 4.4 and see how it compares to 1.0. I'd be interested to know your findings.

Cheers!

Mike

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Mike7
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#39 Post by Mike7 »

Hi, Rok.

Thanks for the interesting rundown on your procedure. It wasn't exactly what I asked about (a silly question, probably) but did give me some things to think about.

One question: Do you keep the save file down to 512Mb because of the partition limitations on the flash drive?

Cheers!

Mike

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Mike7
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#40 Post by Mike7 »

Hi, Volhout.

Does Slacko 5.3.3 maintain all the power management and keyboard functions of the EeePC? If so, maybe I'll test it out on mine.

Cheers!

Mike

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Mike7
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#41 Post by Mike7 »

rcrsn51-

At the risk of becoming a pest, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Rok. I really want to undertstand this, and since I'll be using ISObooter it's important to me.

Isn't there a difference between installing an iso on a pendrive and installing the extracted files? If it's an iso, how can it have persistence (in Puppeee, the save file)? Ubuntu, I believe, creates a separate partition for a casper file for persistence. But how would an iso be able to save changes?

As I understand it, the iso is extracted to RAM. So how do the changes get put back into the iso at the end of a session? It can't be done, can it, without creating a new iso?

I hope you or someone else here can explain this to me.

Cheers!

Mike

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rcrsn51
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#42 Post by rcrsn51 »

In the time it took you to ask the question, you could have set up ISObooter and seen for yourself how persistence is handled.

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mikeslr
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Recommend Carolina and Grub4Dos

#43 Post by mikeslr »

Hi Mike7,

I'm just a tinkerer, but have been a Puppy fan for about six years: ever since a I got tired of waiting for a Thinkpad 600e (no longer existent) to boot. Somehow over the years I've acquired 6 computers of various makes, including an Asus 701SD, and a little bit of knowledge about Puppies. I test almost every new Puppy when it is published, and follow its developments.
I strongly recommend that in your exploration of Puppies you try out 'lina-lite, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 571b74e041 and Grub4Dos. 'lina-lite is the conceptual descendent of Puppee. Jemimah, after creating Puppee and Fluppee –a generic of Puppee, not just for Asus computers-- went on to create Saluki, including in it many innovations. Jemimah is a computer professional. Unfortunately, within a period of six months she experienced two employment reverses and has “gone walkabout

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Mike7
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#44 Post by Mike7 »

rcrsn51-

Okay, 'nuf said. Soon as I get my roof fixed I'll try it.

M.

jakfish
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#45 Post by jakfish »

If anybody is using Puppy 1.0, just a note to say that Grumpywolf's Chrome 10.0.612.1 dev will install over Chrome 5.

Even snappier, though still without successful log-in to sync bookmarks, etc.

With the advent of a really good browser, Puppy 1.0 is becoming my go-to, moving past Lubuntu 12.10.

I did install Zorin 6.2 Lite on a ssd partition and though intriguing, it didn't boot or shut-down as fast as Lubuntu. Too, it's based on Lubuntu 12.04, which only has 8 mos of updates remaining. 12.10 has 14.

Boy, do I wish either 12.04 or 12.10 were LTS.

Jake

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Mike7
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#46 Post by Mike7 »

Hi, mikeslr.

Thanks for all the interesting info. I didn't know there had been further developments of Puppeee. I will surely try them out. Do you know if they have the USB self-install feature of Puppeee 4.4, like the bootinst.bat file?

I think I understand most of what you said, but I'm too new to all this to feel confident about implementing it. Dealing with partitions is partiularly worrying for me. Same goes for Grub4DOS, which I really need to figure out how to use.

Your workaround for saving the save file is good. I'll remember that.

I may have some questions for you relating to various things you told me, down the line.

Cheers, and thanks again.

Mike

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Mike7
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#47 Post by Mike7 »

rcrsn51-

ISObooter didn’t work. Here’s what happened:

-- I plugged in a pendrive, formatted it with gparted, and checked that it had a boot flag.
-- I extracted isobooter.tar.gz and copied the isobooter file to the pendrive.
-- I clicked on it, and got:

Do you want to make drive bootable? [y/n]

-- I typed y and pressed Enter, and got this:

Are you sure> [y/n]

-- I typed y and pressed Enter, and got this:

------------------------------------------------------------------
cp: cannot stat ‘/usr/lib/grub4dos/grldr’:
no such file or directory
/tmp/myscript.txt: line 16: bootlace.com:
command not found

No ISOs found! Press Enter to quit
------------------------------------------------------------------

-- I pressed Enter and quit.

Notes:
-- grub4dos was not opened.
-- I am now unable to remove isobooter by re-formatting the pendrive with Gparted.

Query: Should the pendrive be mounted or unmounted during the procedure?

Hope you can help me out with this.

Mike

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rcrsn51
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#48 Post by rcrsn51 »

What version of Puppeee are you using?

IIRC, I looked in one and saw Grub4Dos. But I have lost my download link to check again. Apparently, your version does not.

I don't understand your problem with deleting the isobooter file. Just right-click and delete it.

But to run Gparted, the partition must be UNmounted.

[Edit] I got a copy from aarf's link here. and it has Grub4Dos.
Last edited by rcrsn51 on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 21:33, edited 1 time in total.

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ally
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#49 Post by ally »

hey mike

might be easier to get a usb cd-rom is you're having all these problems, I did!

keep trying - it's worth it

:)

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mikeslr
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Hope I didn't confuse you

#50 Post by mikeslr »

Hi Mike7,

Hope I didn't confuse you. Saluki/Carolina/'lina-lite are not further developments of Puppeee: its just that Saluki was a later creation of jemimah so employed some of the expertise and experience she acquired creating Puppee.
They do not have bootinst.bat unless it is now known under a different name: "Bootflash Puppy to USB." Its been some time since I installed Puppeee to my eeepc, Asus 701SD. It currently runs Saluki, and sits on my nightstand to provide web access so I can obtain an answer to that important question I'll have forgotten by the morning. Before my next trip I'll probably switch over to 'lina-lite. At any rate, as far as I recall, the bootinst.bat enabled you to set the flag of USB-Key to "bootable" while you were still in Windows. That's what Bootflash Puppy to USB, which I think is now standard on all Puppies, does, however, of course not in Windows. If, however, bootinst.bat did more, than no. You'd have to do it manually.

Once, however, that flag is set you don't have to do it again unless you reformat the drive. And as I mentioned, if you use gparted to format it, before closing gparted you can set the boot flag to "bootable." Just highlight the partition and --I think-- right-click in the column labeled "manage flags." But uness you need to reformat it, don't. Once the USB-key/drive is bootable you can use it as any other drive: install a bootloader such as Grub4Dos into it, delete any or all files and folders from it --deleting won't reset the boot flag-- and copy any files into it, including those necessary for a Pup to run.,

Last word, for now: Whether or not you intend to multi-boot from your USB-key, if you're going to use Seamonkey or firefox, I recommend that you move the .mozilla file out of the SaveFile. The first time you run either Seamonkey or firefoxin a Puppy, it create a folder, .mozilla, in root. You can see it if you just start Rox: it opens to root AKA /root. Then left-click the "eye" in the center of Rox's toolbar. Other file managers have menus, one of which will have the option to "Show hidden files." .mozilla is used to store settings, bookmarks, plugins, but also to cache webpages. It can rapidly eat up a great deal of space. Your SaveFile is not dynamic, although you can use "Resize Personal Storage file" to increase it. [Requires a reboot into that Pup, as it will resize the SaveFile of the next Pup you boot into]. So what many of us do is move .mozilla out of / and symlink it back. 666philb provided the following link to a Youtube video showing just how its done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvXafoP ... fvXoLCq23c.

Since it's hidden, I usually move it to within a folder called "browserscache" --without the beginning "." to hide it. After starting a new Puppy and running firefox for the first time, I open Rox to /root, delete the .mozilla folder, and create a symlink to /browserscache/.mozilla. If nothing else, I don't have to import bookmarks and install my favorite addons to every firefox.
I also try to remember to clean my cache every once in a while.

mikesLr

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