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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Localization Project
official (momanager) language packs
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 11:00    Post subject: Portuguese and Català
Subject description: langpacks
 

Hello L18L, Bert, akarui.tenshi

When I first made the Portuguese langpack, Momanager didn't have a setting to read from 'pt' folder for both 'pt-BR' and 'pt-PT', like in Spanish one 'es' folder is enough for the more than 20 countries including Spain. The SSS won't work properly because I didn't put separate desk_strings files for pt-PT and pt-BR. I'll try to fix it so that anyone interested can keep adding translations. I'm about to travel so maybe you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

akarui.tenshi,

By making a catalanish langpack you'll give many people the chance to renew old (and not-so-old) computers instead of waiting to earn enough to buy new ones. This is extremely important in our time. When I first used Puppy I could simply have remained English and let other people do it in the future, but I thought, 'why not now?' Something similar happened for Italian and Portuguese, although I don't speak these languages natively I wanted to start something for other people to have a base in the future. Sadly, I couldn't find the time to make more translations. As you know, langpack maintainers release a langpack version with new/updated translations every now and then, but I'm already the mainainer for Spanish. Also, users morscerta (Brazil) and SpeedyDuck (Italia) had said they wanted to continue these langpacks, but there's no news from them yet. There's been the idea of splitting langpack_pt into separate versions for European and Brazilian Portuguese, you could then make this for real, since morscerta is meant to do Brazilian Portuguese. Note that Abiword and a few applications don't have a translation to European Portuguese, if the source of the current versions doesn't include one you'll have to do them from the beginning. I'll help you as much as I can.

L18L,

Can I ask you a question? How can I modify the 'es' keyboard in Puppy so that instead of letter 'ñ' I can type dead_tilde? Currently, when I write Portuguese I use spellcheckers, I have to right-click every word that is meant to have dead tilde (informação, ecrã, definições). By switching to abnt-latin2 I have dead tilde, I can even type 'ñ', but then question marks (¿?) and exclamation marks (¡!) are missing, for my keyboard layout is not Portuguese.


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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 12:49    Post subject: Re: keyboard layouts  

vicmz wrote:
Can I ask you a question?...

Yes but I cannot give you an answer and hope forum member oui can.

---
Are you sure the Korean dog is not a cat Laughing and the Indonesian a bird Question
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2066
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 15:32    Post subject:  

Hi

Thank you L18L for your intervention.

West-European languages (and more) are absolutely no problem! Yes, using Puppy:

áâàäãāaąăåǎảạ

all that with only one keyboard layout (I am using as my exclusive keyboard layout since more than 4..5 years! I write extremely fast and don't look on the keyboard! but using a cheap US keyboard (the old standard version of all imported computers Rolling Eyes ) can help because the main disposition is the same. And you can of course do it with other letters of the alphabet!

my keyboard layout is the

us intl (that means US international) from puppy

you can set up as follow

Code:
setxkbdmap us intl
!

you can return to your own keyboard layout with the same command but the other keyboard code. as the console interpreter memorize the entered command, you can commute it fast using the cursor key cursor up (you can memorize both commands in you /root/.history as well as other command line commands you like and often use before you remaster puppy Wink . If you don't use any save file, those commands are always ready to use Idea !

but you also can save this setting in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf ! After restart, us intl is always your first keyboard in graphic mode (the usual mode in Puppy). us accentos give access to partially use of some above writing signs. Also us accentos has now an extended set of writing signs and letters, but the extended signs needs x.org. Different of us intl, the us accentos base can be use completely outside X.org (you can use accents in Linux not having X or after leaving X in Puppy)! Us accentos would be enough for French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish, but does not include the special signs for North West European languages and has and a different sign disposition on the Keyboard. It is not recommandable to use both at the same time (but I do it in Debian, Ubuntu, NuTyx: I use us accentos outside X or without X and commute to us intl in graphic mode! But I can write without problem in a lot of keyboard layouts as Fr, De, Ch-de, Ch-Fr, Tr, Ro, Devanagari without to need to look at all at the sign pictures on the keyboard keys! All that is also possible in Puppy eventually under adding of some TTF fonts only, the keyboard layouts are basically included!)

As the type writer did be developed in the XIX century in the USA, it were the basic keyboard layout of all type writers in the world excepted languages like Chinese (Devanagari etc.But Devanagari keyboard is immediately usable in Puppy with setxkbmap: the problem is only, you have to add a TTF font for some Indian languages in your Puppy: there is no one in Puppy for the official language from 1,5 billion human people).

And as PC did be vulgarized by American people in the last years of the XX Century and the US keyboard is the base of a lot of short cuts in the computer world. We, users of other keyboard layouts, can probably not understand this definitive

fact.

Use us intl and you can write ¿¡ñçßü correctly in all West European languages (excepted, perhaps, unusual languages like Euskara, etc.). As US keyboard is the old base of all, it is helpful to learn easily very unusual keyboards like Roman or Russian or Greek or Magyar as you will find more signs on the keyboard in the basic (phonetic) position as using your usual on specific keyboard!

But you can also commute the signs of all Linux keyboards relatively easily. You will find a lot of old informations in the Puppy forum and more actual informations in the Ubuntu Wikis or Slackware books as both can be the source of our major actual versions of Puppy!

I have no experience in writing from right to left (Arabic, Hebraic) or writing from top to bottom (Chinese, Japanese tradition. writing style). I did learn a bit of those languages, but did buy 20 years ago diverse local copies of Windows 95 for those languages (deception: it was not possible to mix them on the same hard disk, or not easily) as cheaper mdsn Development Platform CD's or did write them per hand! But I know that some puplets did already allow to write Chinese etc. and I did often use Puppy to write in Hindi.

Last edited by oui on Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:34; edited 1 time in total
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 01:33    Post subject:  

Oui,

Thank you. It means I need another keyboard. I've tried to get a US-layout one but couldn't.

L18L,

Korean bark is pronounced 'mong mong', I don't know what's mong mong or guk guk in Indonesian but certainly meong meong is cat sound. Laughing

About the Portuguese langpack, I tried to build a new one with FFMM and got 221 .desktop files in /usr/share/applications.in (only 45 of them had Portuguese translations, the other files have... Spanish translations) and the 'es' folder along with the 'pt' one for ROX-filer - surprise! Momanager interprets Spanish as part of Portuguese language. Shocked I knew many people confuse both languages, but, come on! Laughing Alright, I suppose I need a separate clean install for working exclusively on Portuguese stuff. Very Happy

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Last edited by vicmz on Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:05; edited 1 time in total
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 01:58    Post subject:  

Well, here it is, a European Portuguese langpack, small because the amount of translations found/made so far but it's a start point. Check and tell:
http://yadi.sk/d/cSTs-X57Agh6b
NOTE: the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2066
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:30    Post subject:  

hi vicmz

My keyboard hardware is Ch (Swiss),
I see that the Pt keyboard layout from Puppy is about the same as my Ch layout Laughing :

¬¡⅛£$⅜⅝⅞™±°¿˛ <- ALT GR + right SHIFT
¬¹@£§½¬{[]}\¸ <- ALT GR
|!"#$%&/()=?» <- SHIFT
\1234567890'« <- unshifted

Ωł¢®ŧ¥↑ıøþ°
@Ł€¶Ŧ←↓→ØÞä~
QWERTYUIOP+'
qwertyuiop+'

ƧЪŊĦJ&Łǎă
æßðđŋħjĸłâà
ASDFGHJKLǪâ
asdfghjklçºñ

¦<>©`'Nº×÷ȧ
|«»¢“”nµa·ạ
>ZXCVBNM;:_
<zxcvbnm,.-

(if I did always use the right key combination. I am not certain in all cases. and there are more combinations that I did not test with CAPS LOCK on signs!)

I see it is possible to write all Spanish letters like ñ or ¿ or ü. What do you want more?

Salut

PS: oh, you want use Es, excuse me, but I did try the same with the Spanish keyboard of Puppy some times ago: you have about the same possibilities under an other layout!
Try the combination ALT GR + right SHIFT + a key!
If no sign appear it is probably a dead key, continue and enter an "a" to see if a diacritic sign appears with the a!
Try the combination ALT GR + a key!
Try SHIFT + a key! and, separately, CAPS LOCK + a key!, it is not the same!
CTRL can also offer combinations abilities!
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akarui.tenshi

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:47    Post subject:  

vicmz wrote:
the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.


es_ES: Lo mismo también ocurre con los ficheros 'sss'
en: The same also applies to the files 'sss'

i had made a little language pack to the pt_PT, in very early stage (alpha stage :p), it doesn't include any .mo file

http://yadi.sk/d/Le8vVO0ZAi7Ac

vicmz: Some desktop translations i consider that aren't right... like 'trash' in fact in pt_PT the right translation is 'lixo' but all Windows users are accustomed to seeing 'reciclagem'...
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:57    Post subject: keyboard  

oui wrote:
I see it is possible to write all Spanish letters like ñ or ¿ or ü. What do you want more?

vicmz,
I have just succesfully tried
Code:
# setxkbmap pt
# informação definições
this was typed in not pasted Very Happy


Code:
#  setxkbdmap us intl
bash: setxkbdmap: command not found
#  setxkbmap us intl
# Zæx©vbñµç
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 11:22    Post subject:  

Thank you guys. No, AltGr combinations never work for me. The reason why in 'es' keyboard I can't type ~ (oh no! My new phone doesn't have dead tilde either!) and in 'pt' keyboard I can't ask questions ¿? or show emotions ¡! is that in my keyboard layout some buttons are merged, whereas in other layouts the same buttons are split into two. I have to get a keyboard that has exactly the same quantity and arrangement of buttons. New keyboards split the Enter key into to but the long Shift key remains.

akarui.tenshi wrote:
vicmz wrote:
the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.


es_ES: Lo mismo también ocurre con los ficheros 'sss'
en: The same also applies to the files 'sss'

i had made a little language pack to the pt_PT, in very early stage (alpha stage :p), it doesn't include any .mo file

http://yadi.sk/d/Le8vVO0ZAi7Ac

vicmz: Some desktop translations i consider that aren't right... like 'trash' in fact in pt_PT the right translation is 'lixo' but all Windows users are accustomed to seeing 'reciclagem'...

Thank you for the feedback. When I do more translations I'll send them to you so that you can check. Do the other translations work? Rox filer, Abiword, etc. Some files in my langpack version where put manually, for example hunspell dictionaries.

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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 15:13    Post subject:  

akarui.tenshi,

This is version 2 of the langpack I posted today, including your translations and spellcheck dictionaries:
http://yadi.sk/d/VUGWHNOCAjD5W
You can see the contents of the PET by using the Extract-Makepet right-click tool.

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akarui.tenshi

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 12:45    Post subject: L18L... i have a doubt  

Hi... L18L i have a doubt,

what is the meaning of this expression:

LANG="`grep '^LANG=' /etc/profile | cut -f 2 -d '=' | cut -f 1 -d ' '`"

I think that this expression means
LANG (the current language of puppy) "cut f 2" (use only two bytes to recognize the language?)

I'm confused, because, for example (in my case), pt_BR and pt_PT both of them have the same 2 first bytes 'pt' but they aren't the same language, they have differences like the US english and the UK english...
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Mon 14 Oct 2013, 03:15    Post subject: Re: L18L... i have a doubt  

akarui.tenshi wrote:
Hi... L18L i have a doubt,

what is the meaning of this expression:

LANG="`grep '^LANG=' /etc/profile | cut -f 2 -d '=' | cut -f 1 -d ' '`"

I think that this expression means
LANG (the current language of puppy) "cut f 2" (use only two bytes to recognize the language?)

I'm confused, because, for example (in my case), pt_BR and pt_PT both of them have the same 2 first bytes 'pt' but they aren't the same language, they have differences like the US english and the UK english...


cut -f 2 -d '=' means
cut field number 2 where field delimiter is =
thus everything after =
Code:
cut --help
helps

I do not understand the meaning of the next cut
"everything before blank" ?
should be dot.

if line
LANG=pt_PT.UTF8
in /etc/profile
then LANG will be pt_PT

This line in /etc/profile is updated by script
Code:
chooselocale
.

Where did you find this "LANG=...." ?

Do continue to post all of your doubts here please.
You are the first translator to a language where the letters after the underscore are important. So you might find some bugs. Wink
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct 2013, 11:29    Post subject: momanager
Subject description: new version
 

What's new?
Code:
#131013 L18L delete harmful pot files
#131014 L18L WINDOW_WIDTH no more in preferences
#131015 L18L output directory MOMADIR for MoManager-* files configurable by preferences

#131013 L18L delete harmful pot files
These are the files that prevent momanager from creating an actual pot file.
Nothing harmful happens because they continue to exist inside devx file...

#131014 L18L WINDOW_WIDTH no more in preferences
window width is "computed" from screen width....1180px max.

#131015 L18L output directory MOMADIR for MoManager-* files configurable by preferences

These files are not needed if you are the maintainer of the language_pack.
They are needed if you want to contribute a single translation and send it to the maintainer or the developper of the app.

All files created by momanager (but not the languagepack) are written into this directory.
Type in whatever you wish as directory name, this directory will be created if it is not already existing.
Example1: MOMADIR=/root/MoManager-files (Bert's suggestion)
Example2: MOMADIR=/mnt/home/momanager-files (outside of save file)
Example3: MOMADIR=/tmp/momanager-files (no persistance!)
Example4: MOMADIR=/dev/null (no existence at all Cool )
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 927

PostPosted: Fri 18 Oct 2013, 16:22    Post subject:  

MoManager 20131015 is the best ever!

It 'remembered' my settings. Nice.
It stretched itself, filling about two-thirds of my screen. Nice.

So far , it didn't go after the bad ('harmful') guys in /usr/share/doc/nls, but I'm confident it will, when creating a new pet.

Just to illustrate the greatness of this new FFMM: I installed a new puplet, added the devx and, without thinking too much about what I was doing, clicked 'MoManager' in the menu... Up came the original MoManager...it still works, but feels like an old snail crawling through tired molasses...

Just incredible how L18L has implemented little incremental improvements over the months and how MoManager has benefited from all those careful steps!

Of course I was eager to use the new option to save the momanager-dump to another place than /root. I chose /mnt/home/momanager-files as the new directory and lord-and-behold, it was created. But, the first translation I saved was not sent to this new folder, instead it arrived in the old place: /root, which already looked like a composting pile with all these translation files littering it.
It will maybe take a few more translations to persuade MM to send the dump to /mnt/home/...?

To paraphrase current political news: "A source close to the steering committee, who prefers to stay anonymous, told us that FFMM has already been chosen as the default puppy internationalization tool." Laughing



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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sat 19 Oct 2013, 07:17    Post subject:  

Bert,

thank you for the nice words!

But I could not have done it without you
who has always given feedback and made good suggestions.

folder in /mnt/home,
I did not test it before, just /root/MOMA.
Now I changed it in preferences
Code:
CONS_HEIGHT=20                # number of characters
#MOMADIR=/root/MOMA            # (existing or not) directory for storing resulting files
MOMADIR=/mnt/home/MOMA-files  # (existing or not) directory for storing resulting files

..and it has been used instantly (
Code:
# pwd
/initrd/mnt/dev_save/MOMA-files
# ls
MoManager-de-UExtract-2.3-in  MoManager-de-UExtract-2.3-in.tar.gz
#
)

other puplet
I have been trying it in luci528 without success (because window just 1 byte wide)
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