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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Localization Project
official (momanager) language packs
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2525
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 06:14    Post subject: Re: latest ffmm
Subject description: pot files for scripts
 

vicmz wrote:
... I have only a few of those. Many of the scripts I checked don't even have a .pot file at /usr/share/doc/nls/ ! Shocked
Allright, never mind, Laughing it's not that important...


For me it is important for understanding (original!) MoManager:
- creates actual pot file from actual script (xgettext)
- creates po file from pot file (msginit)
- merges existing translations in mo file (msgmerge)

Just because a alsaconf.pot could not be created automatically the rule was introduced:
if a pot file exists in /usr/share/doc/nls/<app>/ then it will be used.

... and there is the danger that the pot file is not actual any more.

So the important rule (for developer) simply is:
If momanager can create the pot file (the developer or the first translator will you see it running momanager) then do NOT store a pot file for this script.

They are in devx Wink
Code:
# pwd
/mnt/+mnt+home+devx_precise_5.7.1.sfs/usr/share/doc/nls
#
# ls
alsaconf            grub4dosconfig  notecase          proxy-setup     xarchive
ffconvert           gtkam           parted            pwallpaper
freememapplet_tray  hardinfo        pdiag             retrovol
gecko-mediaplayer   jwm             peasyscan         ROX-Filer
gphoto2             network_tray    powerapplet_tray  welcome1stboot
#

..and you may have additionaly others, too.

Thanks for the feedback which was good for clearing this issue. Smile
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akarui.tenshi

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 03:52    Post subject: translation confusion...  

Good morning,
I found a serious error when using MoManager (maybe is not an error)... I tried to create a language pack for the language "Català" (ca_ES) and everything was alright, then i found a language pack in Portuguese. However this language pack is in the Portuguese of Brazil (pt_BR) and not in Portuguese of Portugal (pt_PT), so I tried to modify it, but translations pt_BR and pt_PT can not cohabitate in the same language pack, because MoManager recognizes both languages ​​just as 'pt'
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 07:00    Post subject: Re: translation confusion...  

akarui.tenshi wrote:
Good morning, However this language pack is in the Portuguese of Brazil (pt_BR) and not in Portuguese of Portugal (pt_PT), so I tried to modify it, but translations pt_BR and pt_PT can not cohabitate in the same language pack, because MoManager recognizes both languages ​​just as 'pt'

Good morning akarui.tenshi,

I think it's a good thing pt_BR and pt_PT cannot cohabitate in the same language pack...
You can make the choice what the target language has to look like : 'pt', or pt.BR' or 'pt_PT'. This choice is made in "Preferences" (bottom of momanager window. ("transLANG=...")

Hope this helps.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2525
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 07:49    Post subject: Re: translation confusion...
Subject description: Portuguese and Brazil.......
 

Goodday and welcome Very Happy
akarui.tenshi wrote:
... i found a language pack in Portuguese. However this language pack is in the Portuguese of Brazil (pt_BR) and not in Portuguese of Portugal (pt_PT), so I tried to modify it, but translations pt_BR and pt_PT can not cohabitate in the same language pack, because MoManager recognizes both languages ​​just as 'pt'

languagepack_pt-2013 located at
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/pet_packages-noarch/
made by forum member vicmz
has both
Code:
# pwd
/initrd/mnt/dev_save/langpack_pt-20130110/usr/share/locale
#
# ls
pt_BR  pt_PT
#

and just pt, ex: /usr/local/apps/ROX-Filer/Messages/pt/LC_MESSAGES

Thus they do exist (maybe manually created by vicmz [hello vicmz Very Happy ] )
.. and momanager can only, how Bert wrote, create
pt or pt-BR if LANG=pt_BR
pt or pt-PT if LANG=pt_PT

...maybe mismatch between _ and - Question

The question remains: Can you use them and how?

Theory is:
If your LANG is pt_PT then pt_PT is used else pt
If your LANG is pt_BR then pt_BR is used else pt

I am seeing differences in
/usr/local/apps/ROX-Filer/Messages/pt-PT/LC_MESSAGES/ROX-Filer.mo 78k
/usr/local/apps/ROX-Filer/Messages/pt-BR/LC_MESSAGES/ROX-Filer.mo 102k

( /usr/local/apps/ROX-Filer/Messages/pt-PT/LC_MESSAGES/ROX-Filer.mo could be just a link to ../pt/...)

@akarui.tenshi,
your experience in using with LANG=pt-PT vs. pt-BR?
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akarui.tenshi

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 09:06    Post subject: Re: translation confusion...
Subject description: Portuguese and Brazil.......
 

L18L wrote:
Goodday and welcome Very Happy


hello, I have been here for a while, however, only now I decided to become an active member... :p

L18L wrote:
languagepack_pt-2013 located at
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/pet_packages-noarch/
made by forum member vicmz


Yes, it's the pt_Br language pack...

@akarui.tenshi,
your experience in using with LANG=pt-PT vs. pt-BR?[/quote]

My experience? well... for me, the english interface is ok... but for a portuguese users there are differences between the pt_BR and the pt_PT ( an example: "file" in pt_BR is "Arquivo" but in pt_PT is named "Ficheiro")... the same happens to the catalan of spain (language that i also speak) and the catalan spoken in some parts of France...
I know a little bit of programming and i'm trying to understand how MoManager and puppy linux manage the translations...

Bert wrote:
I think it's a good thing pt_BR and pt_PT cannot cohabitate in the same language pack...
You can make the choice what the target language has to look like : 'pt', or pt.BR' or 'pt_PT'. This choice is made in "Preferences" (bottom of momanager window. ("transLANG=...")


when i choose pt_PT or pt_BR, the .desktop files work fine, but some translations like the 'sss' doesn't work
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 11:00    Post subject: Portuguese and Català
Subject description: langpacks
 

Hello L18L, Bert, akarui.tenshi

When I first made the Portuguese langpack, Momanager didn't have a setting to read from 'pt' folder for both 'pt-BR' and 'pt-PT', like in Spanish one 'es' folder is enough for the more than 20 countries including Spain. The SSS won't work properly because I didn't put separate desk_strings files for pt-PT and pt-BR. I'll try to fix it so that anyone interested can keep adding translations. I'm about to travel so maybe you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

akarui.tenshi,

By making a catalanish langpack you'll give many people the chance to renew old (and not-so-old) computers instead of waiting to earn enough to buy new ones. This is extremely important in our time. When I first used Puppy I could simply have remained English and let other people do it in the future, but I thought, 'why not now?' Something similar happened for Italian and Portuguese, although I don't speak these languages natively I wanted to start something for other people to have a base in the future. Sadly, I couldn't find the time to make more translations. As you know, langpack maintainers release a langpack version with new/updated translations every now and then, but I'm already the mainainer for Spanish. Also, users morscerta (Brazil) and SpeedyDuck (Italia) had said they wanted to continue these langpacks, but there's no news from them yet. There's been the idea of splitting langpack_pt into separate versions for European and Brazilian Portuguese, you could then make this for real, since morscerta is meant to do Brazilian Portuguese. Note that Abiword and a few applications don't have a translation to European Portuguese, if the source of the current versions doesn't include one you'll have to do them from the beginning. I'll help you as much as I can.

L18L,

Can I ask you a question? How can I modify the 'es' keyboard in Puppy so that instead of letter 'ñ' I can type dead_tilde? Currently, when I write Portuguese I use spellcheckers, I have to right-click every word that is meant to have dead tilde (informação, ecrã, definições). By switching to abnt-latin2 I have dead tilde, I can even type 'ñ', but then question marks (¿?) and exclamation marks (¡!) are missing, for my keyboard layout is not Portuguese.


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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2525
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 12:49    Post subject: Re: keyboard layouts  

vicmz wrote:
Can I ask you a question?...

Yes but I cannot give you an answer and hope forum member oui can.

---
Are you sure the Korean dog is not a cat Laughing and the Indonesian a bird Question
wuff wuff
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct 2013, 15:32    Post subject:  

Hi

Thank you L18L for your intervention.

West-European languages (and more) are absolutely no problem! Yes, using Puppy:

áâàäãāaąăåǎảạ

all that with only one keyboard layout (I am using as my exclusive keyboard layout since more than 4..5 years! I write extremely fast and don't look on the keyboard! but using a cheap US keyboard (the old standard version of all imported computers Rolling Eyes ) can help because the main disposition is the same. And you can of course do it with other letters of the alphabet!

my keyboard layout is the

us intl (that means US international) from puppy

you can set up as follow

Code:
setxkbdmap us intl
!

you can return to your own keyboard layout with the same command but the other keyboard code. as the console interpreter memorize the entered command, you can commute it fast using the cursor key cursor up (you can memorize both commands in you /root/.history as well as other command line commands you like and often use before you remaster puppy Wink . If you don't use any save file, those commands are always ready to use Idea !

but you also can save this setting in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf ! After restart, us intl is always your first keyboard in graphic mode (the usual mode in Puppy). us accentos give access to partially use of some above writing signs. Also us accentos has now an extended set of writing signs and letters, but the extended signs needs x.org. Different of us intl, the us accentos base can be use completely outside X.org (you can use accents in Linux not having X or after leaving X in Puppy)! Us accentos would be enough for French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish, but does not include the special signs for North West European languages and has and a different sign disposition on the Keyboard. It is not recommandable to use both at the same time (but I do it in Debian, Ubuntu, NuTyx: I use us accentos outside X or without X and commute to us intl in graphic mode! But I can write without problem in a lot of keyboard layouts as Fr, De, Ch-de, Ch-Fr, Tr, Ro, Devanagari without to need to look at all at the sign pictures on the keyboard keys! All that is also possible in Puppy eventually under adding of some TTF fonts only, the keyboard layouts are basically included!)

As the type writer did be developed in the XIX century in the USA, it were the basic keyboard layout of all type writers in the world excepted languages like Chinese (Devanagari etc.But Devanagari keyboard is immediately usable in Puppy with setxkbmap: the problem is only, you have to add a TTF font for some Indian languages in your Puppy: there is no one in Puppy for the official language from 1,5 billion human people).

And as PC did be vulgarized by American people in the last years of the XX Century and the US keyboard is the base of a lot of short cuts in the computer world. We, users of other keyboard layouts, can probably not understand this definitive

fact.

Use us intl and you can write ¿¡ñçßü correctly in all West European languages (excepted, perhaps, unusual languages like Euskara, etc.). As US keyboard is the old base of all, it is helpful to learn easily very unusual keyboards like Roman or Russian or Greek or Magyar as you will find more signs on the keyboard in the basic (phonetic) position as using your usual on specific keyboard!

But you can also commute the signs of all Linux keyboards relatively easily. You will find a lot of old informations in the Puppy forum and more actual informations in the Ubuntu Wikis or Slackware books as both can be the source of our major actual versions of Puppy!

I have no experience in writing from right to left (Arabic, Hebraic) or writing from top to bottom (Chinese, Japanese tradition. writing style). I did learn a bit of those languages, but did buy 20 years ago diverse local copies of Windows 95 for those languages (deception: it was not possible to mix them on the same hard disk, or not easily) as cheaper mdsn Development Platform CD's or did write them per hand! But I know that some puplets did already allow to write Chinese etc. and I did often use Puppy to write in Hindi.

Last edited by oui on Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:34; edited 1 time in total
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 01:33    Post subject:  

Oui,

Thank you. It means I need another keyboard. I've tried to get a US-layout one but couldn't.

L18L,

Korean bark is pronounced 'mong mong', I don't know what's mong mong or guk guk in Indonesian but certainly meong meong is cat sound. Laughing

About the Portuguese langpack, I tried to build a new one with FFMM and got 221 .desktop files in /usr/share/applications.in (only 45 of them had Portuguese translations, the other files have... Spanish translations) and the 'es' folder along with the 'pt' one for ROX-filer - surprise! Momanager interprets Spanish as part of Portuguese language. Shocked I knew many people confuse both languages, but, come on! Laughing Alright, I suppose I need a separate clean install for working exclusively on Portuguese stuff. Very Happy

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Last edited by vicmz on Thu 10 Oct 2013, 02:05; edited 1 time in total
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 01:58    Post subject:  

Well, here it is, a European Portuguese langpack, small because the amount of translations found/made so far but it's a start point. Check and tell:
http://yadi.sk/d/cSTs-X57Agh6b
NOTE: the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:30    Post subject:  

hi vicmz

My keyboard hardware is Ch (Swiss),
I see that the Pt keyboard layout from Puppy is about the same as my Ch layout Laughing :

¬¡⅛£$⅜⅝⅞™±°¿˛ <- ALT GR + right SHIFT
¬¹@£§½¬{[]}\¸ <- ALT GR
|!"#$%&/()=?» <- SHIFT
\1234567890'« <- unshifted

Ωł¢®ŧ¥↑ıøþ°
@Ł€¶Ŧ←↓→ØÞä~
QWERTYUIOP+'
qwertyuiop+'

ƧЪŊĦJ&Łǎă
æßðđŋħjĸłâà
ASDFGHJKLǪâ
asdfghjklçºñ

¦<>©`'Nº×÷ȧ
|«»¢“”nµa·ạ
>ZXCVBNM;:_
<zxcvbnm,.-

(if I did always use the right key combination. I am not certain in all cases. and there are more combinations that I did not test with CAPS LOCK on signs!)

I see it is possible to write all Spanish letters like ñ or ¿ or ü. What do you want more?

Salut

PS: oh, you want use Es, excuse me, but I did try the same with the Spanish keyboard of Puppy some times ago: you have about the same possibilities under an other layout!
Try the combination ALT GR + right SHIFT + a key!
If no sign appear it is probably a dead key, continue and enter an "a" to see if a diacritic sign appears with the a!
Try the combination ALT GR + a key!
Try SHIFT + a key! and, separately, CAPS LOCK + a key!, it is not the same!
CTRL can also offer combinations abilities!
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akarui.tenshi

Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:47    Post subject:  

vicmz wrote:
the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.


es_ES: Lo mismo también ocurre con los ficheros 'sss'
en: The same also applies to the files 'sss'

i had made a little language pack to the pt_PT, in very early stage (alpha stage :p), it doesn't include any .mo file

http://yadi.sk/d/Le8vVO0ZAi7Ac

vicmz: Some desktop translations i consider that aren't right... like 'trash' in fact in pt_PT the right translation is 'lixo' but all Windows users are accustomed to seeing 'reciclagem'...
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2525
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 09:57    Post subject: keyboard  

oui wrote:
I see it is possible to write all Spanish letters like ñ or ¿ or ü. What do you want more?

vicmz,
I have just succesfully tried
Code:
# setxkbmap pt
# informação definições
this was typed in not pasted Very Happy


Code:
#  setxkbdmap us intl
bash: setxkbdmap: command not found
#  setxkbmap us intl
# Zæx©vbñµç
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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 11:22    Post subject:  

Thank you guys. No, AltGr combinations never work for me. The reason why in 'es' keyboard I can't type ~ (oh no! My new phone doesn't have dead tilde either!) and in 'pt' keyboard I can't ask questions ¿? or show emotions ¡! is that in my keyboard layout some buttons are merged, whereas in other layouts the same buttons are split into two. I have to get a keyboard that has exactly the same quantity and arrangement of buttons. New keyboards split the Enter key into to but the long Shift key remains.

akarui.tenshi wrote:
vicmz wrote:
the .mo files are stored at /usr/share/locale/pt/LC_MESSAGES. If they are stored on the pt_PT folder they don't work, or at least not in the latest Puppy Precise.


es_ES: Lo mismo también ocurre con los ficheros 'sss'
en: The same also applies to the files 'sss'

i had made a little language pack to the pt_PT, in very early stage (alpha stage :p), it doesn't include any .mo file

http://yadi.sk/d/Le8vVO0ZAi7Ac

vicmz: Some desktop translations i consider that aren't right... like 'trash' in fact in pt_PT the right translation is 'lixo' but all Windows users are accustomed to seeing 'reciclagem'...

Thank you for the feedback. When I do more translations I'll send them to you so that you can check. Do the other translations work? Rox filer, Abiword, etc. Some files in my langpack version where put manually, for example hunspell dictionaries.

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vicmz


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013, 15:13    Post subject:  

akarui.tenshi,

This is version 2 of the langpack I posted today, including your translations and spellcheck dictionaries:
http://yadi.sk/d/VUGWHNOCAjD5W
You can see the contents of the PET by using the Extract-Makepet right-click tool.

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