Can I run Slacko in a laptop with no hard drive?

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hhm7163
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Can I run Slacko in a laptop with no hard drive?

#1 Post by hhm7163 »

I have an old laptop w/XP that has BSOD and will not boot. Don't know the problem and don't know condition of hardware. Just found out that Linux doesn't need HD and I could boot from CD or flash drive. I have virtually NO technical knowledge. Would Puppy Linux Slacko Live CD & wifi 802.11n USB Adapter work to save the machine assuming no hardware damage to prevent it? It would seem to be ready to do it all. My USB is 1.1. Is that compatible with above package? Wifi for internet would be primary use.
Any other Puppy alternatives that someone with very limited knowledge could use?
Is there something available to download that could boot just to see if the hardware is functional?

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dk60902
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Re: Puppy Linux Slacko

#2 Post by dk60902 »

hhm7163 wrote:I have an old laptop w/XP that has BSOD and will not boot. Don't know the problem and don't know condition of hardware. Just found out that Linux doesn't need HD and I could boot from CD or flash drive. I have virtually NO technical knowledge. Would Puppy Linux Slacko Live CD & wifi 802.11n USB Adapter work to save the machine assuming no hardware damage to prevent it? It would seem to be ready to do it all. My USB is 1.1. Is that compatible with above package? Wifi for internet would be primary use.
Any other Puppy alternatives that someone with very limited knowledge could use?
Is there something available to download that could boot just to see if the hardware is functional?
What make/model laptop are you using? What wireless USB adapter are you using?

If you want to run Win XP on your laptop again, you should save all your important files/documents to a USB drive, and then do a clean install of Win XP.
HP Pavilion Mini Pentium 1.7 GHz Dual Core 12 GB RAM 120 GB SSD Linux Lite 3.8 64-bit w/ Kensington Slimblade Trackball
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LG V20 LG Xpression Plus Huawei Ascend XT2

hhm7163
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Puppy Linux Slacko

#3 Post by hhm7163 »

Thanks for the reply.
The laptop is Gateway, Model 450SX4. The wireless USB adapter is Tenda Mini 11N, Model W311M.
I have no intention of again running XP. Anyway, I don't have any install disks. Not furnished.
I have no desire to save anything. Important stuff had already been moved to new computer. I'm just trying to save the machine for some use rather than throw it away. My thought was to remove the HD and boot only Puppy Linux (if hardware is able and I am able to understand what I am doing).

gcmartin

Run SLACKO on a LAPTOP

#4 Post by gcmartin »

This might help.

There are 2 ideas shared in this thread. Let try to help with each.

First
There is really not a need to concern yourself with XP as Puppy does NOT intend to "attach" the HDD in the Laptop. To do so requires a manual action on your part to "see" any files on that HDD. And, Puppy does not modify any XP files. Only you can use tools to modify anything on the XP drive.

If you do have a concern about the integrity of the information on your HDD and want to insure that it is impossible to touch, then remove it; turn the laptop over and unsnap it.

Ir you have been using your XP for many years, you may want to have Puppy access those files for Puppy is fully capable of making use of those files in the same manner as XP did...for the most part.

Next, Puppy on Laptop from CD/DVD
I am going to assume you have already used a tool to take the ISO and make a bootable CD/DVD. Assuming you have a bootable CD/DVD, you are armed and ready to boot your Laptop. The simple requirement is to tell the Laptop to boot from the CD/DVD. This can be done in one of 2 ways:
hit the Laptop"s "F" key (for example F1, F2, F8, F10, F12 - depending on which manufacturer makes your laptop) and select the CD/DVD.

That's it. This will get you to a Puppy desktop. If your laptop has 1GB of RAM, I recommend you start with FATSlacko as it negates the need to access and add many subsystem functions you are accustomed to with XP, (If you have a 64bit capable CPU, LightHouse64 also gives you an out-of-the-box (OOTB) full XP experience.

Lastly
Doing this, you are on your way. Post us back if you have other questions about using your laptop for booting Puppy.

When you do get Puppy running, there is a forum thread with addresses using the particular distro you select. There is one for Slacko, FATSlacko, and LIghthouse64 as well as all of the other particular distros available.

Here to help

starhawk
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#5 Post by starhawk »

...google says that your boot menu key (to select the drive with which you want to boot) should be either ESC or F10.

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OscarTalks
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Re: Puppy Linux Slacko

#6 Post by OscarTalks »

hhm7163 wrote:My thought was to remove the HD and boot only Puppy Linux (if hardware is able and I am able to understand what I am doing).
Assuming you have access to another (working) computer and having read your posts I suggest you just download the .iso and burn it (as a disc image, not a copy of the .iso) to create your bootable Live CD. This is the best place to start. Very quick and easy to do.

I wouldn't remove the HD yet. If the XP problem was software you may be able to use the HD in several ways to run or install Puppy later.

Pop the Live CD into the laptop drive and power up. Chances are it will boot like that if the hardware is OK.
Oscar in England
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hhm7163
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Puppy Linux Slacko

#7 Post by hhm7163 »

gc---
I have NOT "already used a tool to take the ISO and make a bootable CD" because at this point I didn't know what to do. What "tool"? Is there just one ISO on Puppy site to take? I've done a lot of googling and I'm intimidated and confused by the steps to follow to do a successful burn such as typing commands. Is there a choice to just click and burn? I have never burned a CD.
So, FATSlacko would be an additional burned CD? Any problem with it and an old machine? The Puppy site mentions some versions might not work on older machines and suggested Wary Puppy for oldies.

Oscar---
I have never burned so I am new to the process.
You say "download the .iso". Download to where? My Documents? Where do I find the .iso? Search the Puppy site and there is just one?
You say "burn it as a disc image, not a copy of the .iso". You lost me. When it is downloaded someplace (saved) then it is an image? Or rather during the burning process are there options such as image or copy?

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OscarTalks
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Re: Puppy Linux Slacko

#8 Post by OscarTalks »

hhm7163 wrote:Oscar---
I have never burned so I am new to the process.
You say "download the .iso". Download to where? My Documents? Where do I find the .iso? Search the Puppy site and there is just one?
You say "burn it as a disc image, not a copy of the .iso". You lost me. When it is downloaded someplace (saved) then it is an image? Or rather during the burning process are there options such as image or copy?
You can always go to http://puppylinux.com and follow the links from there to find where you can download the .iso files from. The ibiblio download site can be very slow, the mirrors (such as nluug) are often much faster.

For Puppy Slacko 5.3.3 try:-
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/di ... g-SCSI.iso

As a second option since your laptop is quite old you may wish to also try Puppy Wary 5.3 which is here:-
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/di ... ry-5.3.iso

You can download these to anywhere, so long as you know where you put them. The My Documents folder is fine.

Obviously you will need blank CD's (or DVD's). Probably best to use re-writable ones but they don't have to be.

Then you need some burner software. Not sure what operating system you are using. With XP you have to download something. I have used Infra Recorder in the past. Win 7 has burner software included I believe, but I have never used Win 7.

The option "burn image" or something similar should be a fairly obvious button or selectable item in the menu of the burner software application. You then have to select the downloaded .iso from the location where you saved it (eg My Documents). There may be a couple of other clicks to make. Select a low value for the burn speed for example, and then let it do its thing and you should have a bootable Live CD in a few short minutes.

After the burn, one test you can do is look at the files on the CD using Windows Explorer. If it is just one .iso file on the disc you have made a copy (which is wrong). If you see a cluster of files you have burned an image of the .iso (which is correct).

You can also try the Live CD on any other working computers you have. Just power up with the CD in the drive and it should boot into Puppy without affecting the Windows installation or anything on the HD at all.
Oscar in England
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James C
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#9 Post by James C »

Here's a pretty simple how to.......

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/bur ... on-windows

Just use a Puppy iso image instead of Ubuntu..... :)

hhm7163
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Puppy Linux Slacko

#10 Post by hhm7163 »

Oscar--
Puppy booted!!!
Could not connect to internet. I went through the wizards, but nothing helped.
I have not tried Help. Will do so tomorrow and probably Google. I have a wireless router located very close. The wireless USB adapter on the laptop worked fine for internet, but it was downloaded to the HD and no help now. Could it be downloaded to RAM as is Puppy? Any other suggestions for the internet problem? Being online was to be the main use for the machine, but at least it has some use and saved from discarding. For that I am very grateful for your help. You have been extremely patient with me.

James--
I use Windows 7 and was pleased to see it has Windows Disc Image Burner which made it fool proof for me. I sure need that kind of help.

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OscarTalks
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#11 Post by OscarTalks »

Wireless USB adapters can sometimes prove a bit fiddly to get going. I am no expert on them as I have only ever used one. With that one I had to use the network wizard and the series of steps I had to go through were quite complicated.

With Windows you normally have to install drivers but with Puppy this is usually not the case. The drivers are supposedly included in the Linux kernel as modules. Which Puppy did you boot into? Slacko and Wary do have different kernel versions so if one didn't work it may be worth trying the other.

I know you want to use the laptop as a portable, but if it has an ethernet port you can plug in a cable just to test (connect the cable and reboot if it doesn't auto-detect). There is another wizard / network tool called Frisbee which may be better at detecting and configuring the USB adapter. Saluki Puppy has Frisbee by default and works more easily with my adapter. If it turns out that your adapter is not supported then it may be a case of hunting round for one that is, but one way or another I am sure you will be able to get something up and running.

By the way, how much RAM does the laptop have? Also it would be interesting to know if you are able to create a save-file on your HD at first shutdown. If so this is an indication of nothing physically wrong with the HD.
Oscar in England
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hhm7163
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Puppy Linux Slacko

#12 Post by hhm7163 »

Apparently the only choice provided by Wary is "eth0", but all attempts say eth0 provides "Wired" access and all configuration tries results in no connection because ethernet is not connected. It appears that Wary will not connect wireless. So I tried ethernet and I am now connected and typing this on Wary.
You mentioned Saluki. Would I need to burn that .iso to CD as I did for Wary? Would it also be saved in RAM? If so, would I need to delete Wary from RAM? How?
I have 512MB. I didn't attempt to create save-file on HD. Instead added to CD (I think). I wasn't sure what I was doing. Wary went through it's thing and shut down.Whatever it did I didn't see any benefit when I again booted. Wary still went through all of the downloading process and asked me to make various choices as it did originally. After sending this I will try to save-file to HD.
P.S.
When I logged off I was not given opportunity to save-file to HD. Apparently the choice can only be made once.
Checked out Saluki. It is for new machines and new hardware.
Assuming my HD is OK, could I install Linux on the HD and it would boot and run even though I can't boot windows or does the HD operate independently?

cthisbear
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#13 Post by cthisbear »

hhm7163:

Try >> DpupExprimo5X327

http://smokey01.com/pemasu/DpupSqueeze5 ... primo5X327

If it fails try >>>Lucid 528.05

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855

And use Frisbee.

"""""

Are you sure your wireless is switched on???

Where to find the wireless switch on a gateway laptop?

On the right side towards the front.


"""""
Specs: Gateway 450SX4

http://support.gateway.com/s/Mobile/Gat ... 1sp2.shtml

""""""""""

Debian Etch: Connected so do try>> DpupExprimo5X327

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... ch-631250/

::::::

Card says Broadcom.

" 1x Brand New Broadcom 4318 Wireless card
(Driver provided on the bottom) "

http://www.mini-laptop-accessories.com/ ... -7803.html

Yet here it says >> Agere ORiNOCO

Wireless Ethernet interface features (Factory installed option)

Agere ORiNOCO IEEE 802.11b network card installed
in Mini PCI expansion slot
Uses factory-installed internal antenna assembly
11 selectable channels
2412 MHz - 2462 MHz Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum
40 bit (minimum) WEP and 128 bit RC4 security

http://support.gateway.com/s/Manuals/Mo ... 508859.htm

Chris.

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OscarTalks
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#14 Post by OscarTalks »

The "eth0" is your ethernet card so looks like Wary is not seeing your USB adapter as things stand. Hopefully someone else more experienced than me will chip in with some advice about this.

Saluki and Slacko are both designed more for newer hardware but they may work. Once you know how to burn Live CD's it is simple to try them. You don't need to delete anything from RAM. It is all gone when you power down and loads everything from the CD again at boot-up so swap CD and you swap distro.

If you tried to save the data back to the CD I am wondering if that has not worked properly. If a save-file has been created somewhere then Puppy assumes you don't need to be offered that option again, but it sounds like settings are not being stored. There are various things I can think of that you could try here, but maybe best to burn a fresh Live CD and boot again but this time at first shutdown make sure you create the save-file in the HD.

Can you see the HD displayed as an icon (or icons) in the bottom left hand corner of the desktop?

If the HD is OK you will be able to wipe the whole thing or partition a section of it off and install Puppy. It would also be a good idea to allocate 1 to 2 gigs of it as a Linux swap partition. This backs up the RAM if you are browsing pages (eg with embedded videos) which need lots of it. Puppy has Gparted and Puppy Universal Installer in the menu which will do this, but no urgency as running from Live CD is fully functional.
Oscar in England
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Flash
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#15 Post by Flash »

@ hhm7163, to save to the CD, the CD must have been burned as a multisession CD and not closed. The Windows program you used to burn the Puppy CD may not have done it the right way for you to save to the CD (called a multisession Puppy.)

However since you now have a Puppy CD that boots, you can use the burning program in Puppy to make a CD that you can save to. Actually Puppy comes with two burning programs that will do the job. Menu -> Multimedia -> Burniso2cd is specialized for burning Puppy CDs and DVDs. Menu -> Multimedia -> Pburn is a general burning program for CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray disks. It's a bit harder to use because of all the options it gives you, but it will burn a multisession CD or DVD too.

I highly recommend using a CD-RW if you have one, at least until you get comfortable burning Puppy CDs. Pburn can blank it as well as burn a new Puppy on it. :)

You need to tell us how much RAM is in the laptop. Or did I miss that?

gcmartin

#16 Post by gcmartin »

@Hhm7163 lots of very good and accurate advice in this thread.

@Flash shares that there are 2 ways of burning any CD/DVD. There are "standard" (my word for it) and there is "multisession". Windows provided you with a standard process. This causes the CD to close in such a way as it prevents any future writing to it. Using the "multisession" approach allows Puppy to save all of your work when it Shuts-down.

There are 2 things I wish to try to help you understand in this post; namely LAN and then using Puppy to write a mutisession CD/DVD as @Flash recommends.

LAN
When Puppy(s) boot, LInux will inventory your machine. For the LAN, your laptop has a wired ethernet LAN adapter built onto its motherboard. You have said that your router is "very near" your laptop, so I'm sure that you ran a wire from the laptop to the router and that was how you used the booted Puppy to connect to the Internet.

This procedure is the simplest, easiest way to get Puppy up and running over your LAN.

To use your WiFi card, Puppy MUST have a driver to associate when it boots in order for it to be available for your use. IF it does not have a driver at the time it was loading, you WILL NOT SEE THE WiFi when you start the utiltiy to access your LAN...BUT YOUR WILL ALWAYS SEE ETH0, the wired adapter.

Mutisession CD/DVD
As @Flash helped you with, if your laptop has a CD burner or a DVD burner, then you can use Puppy, once booted, to write any additional ISO you choose, easily. He show 2 methods to help you.

burn2cd
This is really the easiest to create the multisession CD/DVD. It just needs to know where the ISO is, and everything is done for you.

This utility will take a BLANK CD/DVD and will properly create it so that it is a multisession, bootable, Puppy CD/DVD. Once this is completed, you can use it to boot Puppy and run and make all the necessary tailoring or changes you might choose. When you are complete and shutdown the laptop, you will be give the chose to "Save to CD". This will save everything you did in such a way that it will all be brought back, the next time you boot the DVD/CD.

Pburn
This utility is a feature rich tool which not only does multisession, but also does so much more....BUT, you will spend moments (maybe many) to learn its nuance for using it.

Hope this helps

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tallboy
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#17 Post by tallboy »

Hi hhm7163.
A little tip for you: Unless you have planned to remove or disconnect the harddisk, or just not use it at all, you could use the partition tool that you find under 'System' in the menu (mine is 'parted', yours may be another), and make a Linux swap partition on the HD. If you are not familiar with the concept, the 'swap' partition works as virtual memory, that your ordinary memory may access, when running tasks that demands more memory than what is physically installed. I would suggest a 1.5 Gb swap partition. Puppy will automatically search for swap partitons, and use them without asking or telling you, when needed. A swap partition is not used for anything else.

Re. your wifi: I run dpup_485 as of this writing, and my ZTE MF636 modem is not recognized automatically, it is one of those modems that also has a function as a memory stick.
  • Try attaching the modem after bootup, and give the system some time to react, if the modem has a light, check if there is any reaction at all.
  • If the modem come up on the desktop as a disk symbol, try mounting it, and then immediately unmounting it, and wait for it to come up on the desktop as a modem/stick symbol.
  • Then run he connect wizard.
I hope your new linuxbox will fill your needs, you'll be surprised how little you need other computing power. In time you'll learn how to remaster an .iso to be absolutely perfect for you personal use. Advice: don't Google too much, you'll find all you need here in the forum...

I do as gcmartin, I run off a live-CD/DVD only, and I hardly ever use my multi-GB Debian installation anymore. I use a portable HD for USB, to store the few things I really need. It gives me the fredom to only carry a puppy CD/DVD and my tiny HD (or USB stick), ready to be used in any PC, anywhere.

tallboy

hhm7163
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Puppy Linux Slacko

#18 Post by hhm7163 »

I have been attempting other Puppy versions and all without success. None will boot. In making choices to try they made reference to i386 and i686. I chose i686 because I have Pentium 4. Now while booted to Wary I was looking at the HD and saw in my XP folders one called I386. This may mean that I have i386 and I need to search for other Puppy choices to work with my 512 MB RAM and hopefully contains provisions for wireless internet.

I accessed burn2cd and now stuck at screen to "Please choose the iso file". They list folders: ./,../,choices,file-sharing,ftpd,my-applications,my-documents,puppy-reference,spot,startup,web-server. At the end of the choices it says "Selection: /root" and under that "*.iso". I need to choose one of the above folders. I have a CD-RW in the drive. Will the program then copy Wary .iso from RAM? I will choose multisession.


I previously downloaded Wary to HD, the files are shown, but Wary would not boot from the HD. Just because the files are shown doesn't necessary mean the OS is on the HD?

It is frequently mentioned that a Live CD will boot even if computer doesn't have a HD. I removed the HD, powered up and nothing happened other than message that no OS and CD access not available. So back to HD in place.

PS
Playing around with Wary I found, somewhere, Operating System-System Information where it said under Kernel---Linux 2.6.32.59 (i686).
So my i386 system did take an i686 OS (Wary). Now I don't know why the others would not boot.

PPS
As to the above options for burn2cd and .iso location, I found all of the options in a window, opened each and didn't see .iso mentioned.

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OscarTalks
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#19 Post by OscarTalks »

Other Puppies should burn and boot in the same way as the Wary one did if you download the correct .iso file. Not sure where the i386 or i686 option is coming from. I would use your Windows 7 computer for this for now if you have more blank CD's. Lucid Puppy may be worth a try as it is OK for older hardware and has Frisbee in the menu, but it doesn't have a (proper) browser when you first boot it so you will have to install one. The .iso for Lucid Plus 528-005 is here:-

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupup ... .005-1.iso

Then just use your Windows Disc Image Burner as before.
While you are at it, make another fresh Wary Live CD so you can attempt to boot from it and create your save-file on the HD at first shutdown. Take your time going through the steps of that and be sure that you are saving in the right place. It may be that something happened to your first Wary CD when you tried to save your data as a multi-session CD.

Just to clarify, these are two alternative methods of achieving the same thing. Multi-session CD is original Puppy plus additional saved data all on the CD. This is option 1. I think you should not be choosing this.

Closed CD (remains always as just the original Puppy) plus additional saved data on the HD is option 2 and is the one I think you should be going for unless we discover that the HD is faulty.

In fact, Wary would be the ideal Puppy for that computer, except for the one snag that the WiFi isn't working. As I understand it this is your main stumbling block and needs to be resolved before thinking about installing to HD.

Installation to the HD when you are ready is best done by booting the Live CD as normal and running the tools Gparted and Puppy Universal Installer. You will probably also need to install Grub or Grub4dos bootloader. These steps are done from the menu. You don't download more files to the HD.

Does the laptop not have an internal WiFi facilty? I was wondering about that when you mentioned a USB wireless adapter. If so then you have 2 possible ways of getting a wireless internet connection.

Maybe try installing Frisbee in Wary. I haven't tried this, but there is a .pet which someone has posted here:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 2&start=85

Not sure why it didn't work when you disconnected the HD, maybe something in the BIOS, but anyway, if the HD is not faulty then really you want to keep it in and make use of it.

As you have discovered, Puppy will access all your Windows files so you can rescue anything that you lost when Windows stopped working. This is a further indication that the HD is OK
Oscar in England
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OscarTalks
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#20 Post by OscarTalks »

Here is another suggestion. Exprimo is an elegant Puppy with Firefox browser included and runs Frisbee out of the box. I just booted a Live CD of it on my old HP computer which has my (sometimes problematic) USB wireless adapter plugged in to it. After the initial set-up I just clicked the "Connect" desktop icon. Frisbee comes up. You have to allow a few moments but it loads up and scans and displays available wireless networks including mine. I just have to click on my signal in the list and then click on the "Create Profile for the Selected Network" button, enter my password, wait a few seconds and it connects.

On your Windows computer, download the .iso from here:-

http://smokey01.com/pemasu/DpupSqueeze5 ... 0-SCSI.iso

Burn the image disc, pop it in the laptop and see if it boots. You do not need to make a multi-session CD in your situation. See if it shows any evidence of finding wireless devices or signals. At first shutdown go through the steps to create a save-file of 512 MB on the HD.
Oscar in England
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