(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

gcmartin wrote:Kirk

I had reported several years ago about a problem with Kino where the output of an editing session creates a humongous file (100X the original combined file size) when trying to combined 2 camera clips. (to prove my findings, take 2 video clips from anywhere and try combining them for example).

Most of us are running very robust PCs. Would you consider making a video package that our 64bit PCs can tear the videos apart and put back together? Would an actively maintained OpenShot be a candidate that you would endorse? Could this be either a replacement in FATDOG or an addition in FATDOG or even a PET for 64bit.

Thanks for any consideration.

Openshot is a great video program, but it's a tad big for a pet. I think its around 85mb, once you add in all the dependencies it'll need. Probably would be better suited for a SFS. If they dont want to mess around with it, I'll consider packing it up. Dont know when I'd have time... but I can always add it to the list.

Q5sys I would be interested in a SFS of Openshot.

Thanks

Understanding that Kino is stabilized without future development to fix or add features, the 64bit community could consider "removal replacement" of the current subsystem that has issues. This addresses the size issue as its NOT a 85MB download addition to the system, bur, rather, built-into the system's ISO base. This is a much better option as it clears out the old and replaces it with a contemporary subsystem that has continuing support.

There is added benefits in replacement: The user would have the solution in his desktop system without the need, effort, or possibility of things going wrong which is always introduced when users have to attempt installation outside of the base system.

With so many of us having "hand-helds" which produces video, the ability to manipulate these of our desktop is just one more reason for using FATDOG.

We may want to wait to give Kirk a chance to consider what's best for the 64bit community .... assuming there is still time to make the next bugfix to the current 601. A needed tool like this, if done outside of the ISO process would need to be included in the PPM process. And, sometimes, there are delays when Kirk is busy to get items into the REPO for PPM access. So we may want to give him a chance to review this.

Here to help

gcmartin wrote:Understanding that Kino is stabilized without future development to fix or add features, the 64bit community could consider "removal replacement" of the current subsystem that has issues. This addresses the size issue as its NOT a 85MB download addition to the system, bur, rather, built-into the system's ISO base. This is a much better option as it clears out the old and replaces it with a contemporary subsystem that has continuing support.

There is added benefits in replacement: The user would have the solution in his desktop system without the need, effort, or possibility of things going wrong which is always introduced when users have to attempt installation outside of the base system.

Well its not exactly an equal swap. Kino is about 20 mb with deps included. Openshot as i said is about 85mb. so thats another 60mb (uncompressed) added to the base sfs, if its included. Since im not the FatDog lead dev, i cant really make comment if they are willing to incude this in the iso.
Ill happily try and build it and make an sfs out of it (maybe itll work for LHP as well). If Kirk or JamesBond decide to include it... that's their choice.
However in keeping with the idea of puppy being a slim smaller distro i dont see them wanting to make it part of the base system. i see a much higher likelyhood they'd add the sfs to the ppm if they approve of it.
Ill stop speculating though and wait for them to chime in with their thoughts.

Q5sys wrote: ... Kino is about 20 mb with deps included. Openshot as i said is about 85mb. .. .

I think you may be confusing what was shared. You (we) are talking about 1 thing as you point out, and using that as a measure of the broader picture. Most importantly, we have a deprecated product that is in need of someone's service that is being shipped within FATDOG. What I discuss is for the author and, as I remember it, the post was poised for his consideration.

@Q5sys
I did not say for you NOT to help with a SFS. Nor am I asking anything of you. Should an PET/SFS show up I will do my share in tests and providing feedback, just as I have always done in helping where I can. And, as is already noted, I am not the only one who would welcome your effort.

Hope the author understands my help. It is a consideration. In the past, I have been forced to use Windows or another distro for minor video editing to get past some of the issues. Kino is a fine product, but, it has some issues that have been shared.

We are working with 64bit PCs which, in most cases, are lightning fast with robust RAM in comparison to older 32bit architecture. This is why FATDOG is slightly bigger than other PUPs because the author(s) recognize the advantage they have and the community they are helping. They have not done anything in the past that has produced a negative impact in our systems even thought the download size has had a marginal increase.This increase in a download, again, for those of us who understand architecture and path-lengths, does NOT introduce any negative performance or use impact while delivering much needed additional functionality. Many of us understand this and do not see the slight increases as negative for the benefits and full-feature we gain in the distro.

Thanks Kirk and JamesBond for all you do.

And thanks, in advance, for Q5sys's upcoming contributions to this community.

Here to help

gcmartin wrote:We are working with 64bit PCs which, in most cases, are lightning fast with robust RAM in comparison to older 32bit architecture. This is why FATDOG is slightly bigger than other PUPs because the author(s) recognize the advantage they have and the community they are helping. They have not done anything in the past that has produced a negative impact in our systems even thought the download size has had a marginal increase.This increase in a download, again, for those of us who understand architecture and path-lengths, does NOT introduce any negative performance or use impact while delivering much needed additional functionality. Many of us understand this and do not see the slight increases as negative for the benefits and full-feature we gain in the distro.

Just because a system is 64 bit doesn't mean its a power house. I have a netbook thats got a 64bit CPU in it... but its 1.6 ghz (when on AC power) and has 2gb ram. With Speedstep when I use the battery it drops down to probably around 800mhz speed.
So yea... its 64bit... but it doesnt mean it has the power of my quad core intel desktop with 16gb ram.
So there is a need for slim 64bit puppies. If I tried to run the full setup I have on my desktop on my netbook... it'd run alot slower. So I have to modify what programs I have installed on my netbook via SFS packages so that it zips along.

And Yes... Fatdog is larger than most puppies... I think its around twice the size. But if we (as a community) added in every feature some user might want into the base ISO... we, might as well just run a full blown Slackware install or some other Linux distro.
Speaking specifically about size... the fatdog ISO is 200mb. If we take your concept of, put it all in the core ISO... then we'd be adding in the devx sfs, which is 360mb. So now our decent size puppy is 560 mb. The most recent Arch Linux ISO is 417MB, and that includes both 32 and 64 bit architectures.

If there is a demand for a massive puppy distro... lets call it 'obese pup'; then some dev will step forward and make it. But aside from a few people here and there, asking for specific packages... there doesnt seem to be a large number of people who are wanting all this extra stuff built into the core ISO. I believe this is because people are embracing the modular nature of puppy and can custom design their system as they see fit, and not as someone else has decided whats good for them.
Maybe I'm wrong... If I am... I hope those people will step up and speak.

I have to agree with Q5sys.

Fatdog is probably too big as it already is. I'm not saying it won't grow even bigger with time; but I don't see myself or kirk adding something which suddenly "embiggen" it by 50MB or something unless we have a very strong reason for it. Thus, openshot in the base iso is definitely out of question.

I'm happy for anyone to produce the latest openshot SFS. I did the openshot 1.3.1 SFS for Fatdog 500 but haven't gotten the time to update it ever since (I haven't edited video for a long time).

Alternatively, I would encourage you to try "lives", which is available in the package repo. "lives" is a VJ and video editor http://lives.sourceforge.net/. It has a different UI from openshot but I believe it has similar features.

cheers!

Very impressed with LiVES so far.

Thanks JamesBond, Lives looks good too.

If there is a concern about ISO size and if Kino has some issues. Why not remove it to reduce ISO size. This would ease upload and downloads.

Then, the if could be left to the user community to react when need.

Here to help

gcmartin wrote:Thanks JamesBond, Lives looks good too.

No, thanks for kirk, he chose and built Lives for the rest of us

If there is a concern about ISO size and if Kino has some issues. Why not remove it to reduce ISO size. This would ease upload and downloads.

Because kirk uses this on a daily basis?

I have added a few more Applications.

FileZilla - A great FTP client
http://www.smokey01.com/software/Fatdog ... 0-fd64.pet

LiVES SFS includes all of the required dependencies (Video Editor)
http://www.smokey01.com/software/Fatdog ... 1-fd64.sfs

Patch to fix Smurf look in youtube videos
http://www.smokey01.com/software/Fatdog ... atched.pet

Command line movies grabber
http://www.smokey01.com/software/Fatdog ... 3-fd64.pet

Avidemux-2.6git(11/ 16/2012) will replace Kino in 610 as long as nothing bad shows up. Seems pretty good so far and a nice upgrade over Kino. They are both 12MB uncompressed with all dependencies.

Amazon Prime videos are now working in 610. Turns out Flash player has a dependency on HAL, just stupid. Anyway, 610 has a very hacked down version of hal running to support Flash. Probably fix Flash on other web sites too.

We hope to have 610 (beta?) out next week.

Looks like by mistake I installed a font pet. Now I get 'ERROR: No value entered where "gtk_tree_store_append" expects one!' when trying to open Package manager.

How do I remove this offending pet?

spandey wrote:Looks like by mistake I installed a font pet. Now I get 'ERROR: No value entered where "gtk_tree_store_append" expects one!' when trying to open Package manager.

How do I remove this offending pet?

Open /root/.packages/user-installed-packages and delete the line that contains that font.pet. This will not uninstall the pet but hopefully package manager will work again.

Thanks a lot it worked like charm!!

Fatdog 610beta has been released. See here for the announcement.

Forum member stu90 wrote a script to make a pet package from
a folder called 'makepet'. (It makes a right click menu)

It has the command I found that it didn't work in fatdog 610, but a change would make it
work _____________________________________________