Puppi Raspberry Pi Hardware

[Lobster]

Barrys back proving that I am devolving . . .
No surprise there
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02795

In other sound related news: Sound is not a priority for me. I may try my USB headphones which may have an inbuilt sound card - doubt it. Still wrestling with basic command line mayhem such as setting file permissions. Debian Squeeze for Rpi seems very much a work in progress. It will get you going for sure.

Slowly things are settling and I am making sense of the strengths and limitations of my understanding as well as hardware and software.

For those helping and wandering up and down mountains. I am reading and taking my time.

Here is something to get you riled up.
No Flash support.

OK time to continue . . .

[Aitch]

We are in this list already......

http://elinux.org/RPi_Distributions

....and Arch for Pi is CLI...apparently

http://news.techeye.net/hardware/linux- ... -available

Aitch

[sickgut]

The drivers are one thing, whether they be USB, HDMI or thru the Pi's audio port.

The fact that Lobster mentioned that there is no ALSA, there is no way to "talk" to the drivers as there is no audio "core".

The way I see the Linux audio system is as follows: (could be wrong)

Code: Select all

{audio file} ----> {music app} ----> {ALSA} ----> {driver} ----> {hardware} ----> {audio out}

Hope I'm mistaken and that one of those USB thingies work.

sorry to break from the current sound subject.
I want to ask people about clusters because altho the cpu in the Rasp Pi is lame, the video chip is very good, also 256mb ram is quite good also, altho the ethernet isnt gigabit, a gigabit ethernet adaptor could be used on the usb port. Is the usb port version 2.0? i hope it is.

new supercomputers are just clusters but the new ones also have the mechanizm to access GPUs to add to the processing capability just like a normal CPU, so a typical "blade" has 2x cpus on one motherboard and one high end video chip that adds a huge performance increase over just accessing cpus as processing power.

Is anyone here familiar with setting up clusters, and if so is it a simple affair to use attached gpus for processing power, is that a default option in the OS that lets you do this, or is this something very special and out of the reach of normal people?

The appeal of running alot of Rasp Pi in one huge cluster is no need to spend alot of money on cooling, and space is saved as well as power consumption. If the software is ready to access the gpu of the rasp to add this to the pool of processing power, it could actually be reasonably ok, not realy as a price perforamance thing but more like power consumption and maybe space and the ease of adding more "blades" later on and in the event of a failed "blade" its very simple to replace and inexpensive. The cost of a huge air conditioning system is saved and so is the maintanence on alot of water cooling compared to using high end cpus and or cpu fans. Ofcause with so many rasp pi crammed together the heat problem is more than a single rasp standing by itself, but i suspect just one large air forced fan blowing over 30 of them will be enough to keep the air circulating.

anyway.... if anyone knows about clusters accessing gpus then let me know

[Dave_G]

sickgut

I now nothing about clusters, just thinking out aloud here.
Presumably how clustering works is the processing cycles are distributed
amongst many CPUs/GPUs.

If this is indeed the case, then there must be some kind of high speed interconnecting "channel/s"
between the CPU's/GPU's to distribute and collect the data once it's been "crunched".
Surely even USB 2.0 at 480Mbps would create a bottle neck once a cluster
of a certain size has been exceeded?

Just a thought.

[sickgut]

sickgut

I now nothing about clusters, just thinking out aloud here.
Presumably how clustering works is the processing cycles are distributed
amongst many CPUs/GPUs.

If this is indeed the case, then there must be some kind of high speed interconnecting "channel/s"
between the CPU's/GPU's to distribute and collect the data once it's been "crunched".
Surely even USB 2.0 at 480Mbps would create a bottle neck once a cluster
of a certain size has been exceeded?

Just a thought.

i think the inability of the rasp pi to actually pump out processed data at 480Mbs a second would mean it isnt much of an issue as a bottle neck.. dont quote me tho.. just spitting out loud aswell. but yeah... unless we have good networking, you might as well thow it all in the bin. I need to research how much bandwidth is actually used in a gigabit cluster 480Mbs is almost half that speed... my instincts tell me the bottle neck would still be the rasp pi slow processing power...

i have placed an order for one but depending on what i can prioritize here at home, maybe ill order 10 of them just for giggles and try it all out. If it doesnt work out then i can give most of them away as presents to people who would like to have one.

i really do see the Rasp Pi as the perfect platform to bring linux gaming in a semi console format to the masses, but ofcause its not going to go anywhere without any sound how it is now.

[Dave_G]

I remember seeing a video on the Raspberry site where several (can't recall exact number)
of RPI's connected to each other (via ethernet presumably) and driving
a video wall of equal number of screens displaying HDMI video.
Maybe you want to check it out as a starting point.

[Lobster]

The Rpi 'B' - the one with ethernet has 512MB of ram not 256MB (the early boards had 256)

Lobster edit - WRONG Lobster - see later post

Got JWM installed
went to command line by logging out but it needs a parameter to run something like
jwm -display x (where x is the type of display or res or some sort) . . .

[Dave_G]

Lobster

Perhaps the X is display number (0, 1, etc etc)
That is what I would try, what's the worst that can happen?
Are there no man pages or other help for JWM?

[puppy_apprentice]

The Rpi 'B' - the one with ethernet has 512MB of ram not 256MB (the early boards had 256)

Wikipedia, RPi FAQ and every article i've read mention only about 256MB of RAM - maybe u as a developer got a one with bigger memory or somebody from RPi is lazy to change the data

btw. i will by my RPi only when Puppy will be ready ;p

[Lobster]

Perhaps the X is display number (0, 1, etc etc)

Good plan for later
The TV has been claimed by those wishing to watch 'Telly' - whatever that is . . .

oh my mistake the model A was upgraded from 128MB to 256MB
sorry for the confusion
http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs

OK that means Puppy will be using his full skill set to get a small ISO image

I am glad people are inspired to buy the hardware.
I am on a steep learning curve.

I have plans about what I can realistically achieve.

meanwhile in the future . . .
A cluster game console? . . . well the Rpi could be combined with an extension board and a cluster of off the shelf GPU cards for some major rendering

One extension board is the Gert
there will be more:
http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards#GertBoard

[antiloquax]

if you are running the Rasp Pi debian image that can be downloaded from the Rasp Pi site, then everything should be configured to go right ahead and run apt-get update then apt-get install jwm

what is in your /etc/apt/sources.list file?

but if you are running the debian image from rasp pi people and the apt-getting isnt working after you apt-get update and you know the network stuff is working, then post the contents of the /etc/apt/sources.list and we will help best we can

Thanks sickgut - I have my internet working now under qemu. I will try the apt get a bit later.

[Dave_G]

Lobster wrote:

A cluster game console? . . . well the Rpi could be combined with an extension board and a cluster of off the shelf GPU cards for some major rendering

The extension board/GPIO interface only has I2C, SPI, Uart and an 8 bit parallel port.
I doubt the I2C will achieve data rates even as high as 100Kbps and the
parallel one around 1Mbps and probably closer to only 400 - 500Kbps.
The serial/Uart port is probably limited to around 115Kbps and the SPI to
around 1Mbps.
No where near fast enough for a cluster.

So it's back to either Ethernet (100Mbps) or USB (assuming it's 2.0) at 480Mbps.

[raffy]

So it's back to either Ethernet (100Mbps) or USB (assuming it's 2.0) at 480Mbps.

There is a picturehere that shows USB 1.1, but perhaps there is a console command to check on it?

Reproducing the picture here:

[Lobster]

Guys,
. . . talking of USB, I had a USB plugged in when getting these error messages
appear on a pristine boot in Debian Squeeze


are any of those NFS error messages critical?

I am beginning to appreciate what I can bring to Py and prepare
for our real developers.

Raffy is one of our potential early adopters and developers, time allowing . . .

I will be announcing and providing a link to what I will probably call Raspberry PupPy or just PupPy for short . . .

Just to remind you
PARM = Puppy on all ARM processors
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

Most of the info specific to Puppy on Raspbery Pi is here
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppySchoolRaspberryPi


. . . stay fruity
so to speak

[rokytnji]

are any of those NFS error messages critical?

I get a startpar errors in new 3.3.1 kernel install I did. But It's not critical for me. I booted to LXDE Desktop and everything works including sound and moving around files between partitions and internet. Not sure about raspberry pi Debian Squeeze though.

If wanting to look around. look in /var/log/boot

Some info on your error messages:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/201 ... 00311.html

Edit:

After reading this

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 04#p365590

For a common desktop machine you don't need:
rpcbind/portmap
nfs-common
nfs-kernel-server

If you don't know what nfs is then
1) you aren't using it
2) you don't need it.

[Dave_G]

@raffy

USB 1-1:1-0 does not mean the speed.
It's the way Linux names USB ports and hubs (either on the motherboard or external).
Means root_hub = 1, hub_port=1, config=1, interface=0.

For more info on USB, try:

lsusb

or even:

dmesg | grep usb

Don't know if the distros for Pi has lsusb (some Puppies don't) but worth a try.

[Lobster]

Perhaps the X is display number (0, 1, etc etc)

Did not work
worth a try

thanks for error message on boot post rokytnji

[Dave_G]

Lobster

Another thought.
Knowing how paranoid Debian is about security, perhaps JWM not running
has something to do with permissions?

EDIT:
Something else you could try is:

strace jwm (plus any extra parameters needed for jwm)

Then watch the output for any messages.
I often use strace for misbehaving apps.
Gives out a wealth of information.

[Lobster]

USB info:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 008: ID 04f3:0210 Elan Microelectronics Corp. AM-400 Hama Optical Mouse
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0424:ec00 Standard Microsystems Corp. 
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 04d9:1603 Holtek Semiconductor, Inc. Keyboard
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0424:9512 Standard Microsystems Corp. 
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
pi@raspberrypi:~$ 

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~$ dmesg | grep usb
usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
usbcore: registered new device driver usb
usbcore: registered new interface driver smsc95xx
usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_ncm
dwc_otg bcm2708_usb: DWC OTG Controller
dwc_otg bcm2708_usb: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
dwc_otg bcm2708_usb: irq 75, io mem 0x00000000
usb usb1: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0002
usb usb1: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
usb usb1: Product: DWC OTG Controller
usb usb1: Manufacturer: Linux 3.1.9+ dwc_otg_hcd
usb usb1: SerialNumber: bcm2708_usb
usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage
usbcore: registered new interface driver libusual
usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid
usbhid: USB HID core driver
usb 1-1: new high speed USB device number 2 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0424, idProduct=9512
usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
usb 1-1.1: new high speed USB device number 3 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.1: New USB device found, idVendor=0424, idProduct=ec00
usb 1-1.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
smsc95xx 1-1.1:1.0: eth0: register 'smsc95xx' at usb-bcm2708_usb-1.1, smsc95xx USB 2.0 Ethernet, b8:27:eb:24:fb:10
usb 1-1.2: new low speed USB device number 4 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=04d9, idProduct=1603
usb 1-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
usb 1-1.2: Product: USB Keyboard
usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer:  
input:   USB Keyboard as /devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.0/input/input0
generic-usb 0003:04D9:1603.0001: input: USB HID v1.10 Keyboard [  USB Keyboard] on usb-bcm2708_usb-1.2/input0
input:   USB Keyboard as /devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.1/input/input1
generic-usb 0003:04D9:1603.0002: input: USB HID v1.10 Device [  USB Keyboard] on usb-bcm2708_usb-1.2/input1
usb 1-1.3: new full speed USB device number 5 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=05e3, idProduct=0606
usb 1-1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
usb 1-1.3: Product: USB Hub 2.0
usb 1-1.3: Manufacturer: ALCOR
usb 1-1.3.1: new full speed USB device number 6 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.3.1: not running at top speed; connect to a high speed hub
usb 1-1.3.1: New USB device found, idVendor=18a5, idProduct=0304
usb 1-1.3.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
usb 1-1.3.1: Product: STORE N GO
usb 1-1.3.1: Manufacturer: Verbatim
usb 1-1.3.1: SerialNumber: AA04012700031237
scsi0 : usb-storage 1-1.3.1:1.0
usb 1-1.3.4: new low speed USB device number 7 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.3.4: New USB device found, idVendor=04f3, idProduct=0210
usb 1-1.3.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
usb 1-1.3.4: Product: PS/2+USB Mouse
input: PS/2+USB Mouse as /devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.3/1-1.3.4/1-1.3.4:1.0/input/input2
generic-usb 0003:04F3:0210.0003: input: USB HID v1.11 Mouse [PS/2+USB Mouse] on usb-bcm2708_usb-1.3.4/input0
usb 1-1.3.4: USB disconnect, device number 7
usb 1-1.3: USB disconnect, device number 5
usb 1-1.3.1: USB disconnect, device number 6
usb 1-1.3: new low speed USB device number 8 using dwc_otg
usb 1-1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=04f3, idProduct=0210
usb 1-1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
usb 1-1.3: Product: PS/2+USB Mouse
input: PS/2+USB Mouse as /devices/platform/bcm2708_usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.3/1-1.3:1.0/input/input3
generic-usb 0003:04F3:0210.0004: input: USB HID v1.11 Mouse [PS/2+USB Mouse] on usb-bcm2708_usb-1.3/input0

thanks Dave,
will try jwm suggestion

[Lobster]

strace jwm

Gives out too much info to post or analyse for now
The existing window manager is fine anyhows

useful command to know though . . .