(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

johnywhy,

(1) From your comments elsewhere, it is more than likely your hardware is trashed. You might PM Sage requesting advice.

(2) Is your "teamviewer" rated a Wine silver (as opposed to platinum or gold)?

(3) If you really want help (as opposed to recording your sarcastic bitching) just ask 01micko and others pleasantly.

One thing I'm very curious about JohnyWhy, after reading your plethora of reports in the forum here, it has me wondering whether or not you have ever done an md5sum check of any of the .iso files that you've downloaded?

Not asking sarcastically here - I'm really asking out of genuine curiosity because with all of these problems you've been experiencing across the board like this I'd be so much inclined to believe that you've somehow managed to get corrupted downloads. How each time? I'd love to know that myself! Corrosion of the copper in the ethernet connectors could be one possibility - I actually had this once! ( I have a special cleaning cloth for silver/gold rings which I used on the connectors and it worked a treat. )

If using wifi sometimes if the computer is placed between the broadcast unit and a microwave oven - this can actually cause enough disrruption of bytes for a bad md5sum on the .iso. ( One reason why I dislike wifi because of all the mitigating factors that can cause signal corruption and data loss. )

At any rate JohnyWhy, this is why it is always so very important to make sure to run an md5sum/checksum upon your .iso files and making sure the numbers agree before use.

I hope this has been of some small help.

Cheers/Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge d'Acadie"

Thanks for tips, I don't mean to bitch. Just getting frustrated with what seem like endless bugs.

I'm going to check my hardware with UBCD, and will verify my downloads. Will report back to this post.

However, the two possible issues you guys mention (bad hardware, bad downloads) may be the cause of the crash, I think they don't adress other issues I mentioned:

-slickpet failure to log, detect, delete, or re-do incomplete download.
-How do I delete the broken download?
-Shouldn't puppy restart it from halfway point?

Ie, crash recovery. But maybe crash recovery is not puppy's problem. I don't mean that sarcastically, maybe the puppy philosophy is that crashes are likely due to user error, and puppy is not trying to be THAT easy to use that it can recover from user error.

Thanks

johnywhy,

Use your backup - I remember your response on that subject. Do you?

I repeat, tell us about your teamviewer Wine rating.

With a 30 year background in the computer industry .................

Jasper wrote:Use your backup

using a backup is helpful when the OS does not have crash-recovery. I think Puppy has some crash-recovery, but not enough to recover from this crash.

I do feel it's reasonable to want slickpet to log, detect, delete, continue, and/or re-do incomplete downloads. I feel using a backup in this case is a "workaround", but that's just me.

Please don't take that as a criticism of Slacko or its devs-- I assume they want to hear about crashes and suggestions.

Jasper wrote:tell us about your teamviewer Wine rating.

Version 7.0.x TeamViewer Silver on Wine 1.3.34
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... n&iId=5956

However, I was using TeamViewer "for Linux", which comes bundled with it's own Wine
http://www.webupd8.org/2012/01/teamview ... eased.html

which might mean:
a) TeamViewer and/or it's bundled wine are possibly tweaked by TeamViewer Inc. for improved compatibility with each other

b) This Teamviewer is possibly less likely to step on Puppy's installed Wine.

Jasper wrote: it is more than likely your hardware is trashed.

my understanding is that one of puppy's goals is to work with older computers/outdated hardware. Older computer are arguably more likely to have dysfunction. So, i think it would be consistent with Puppy's goals to catch hardware dysfunction without crashing the OS, IMHO.

thanks all for feedback, i appreciate it.

note, i was asked to make my links real links, but i have found that doing so causes the entire post to be hidden. i've seen that for many months on this forum. So, i just tried again and was surprised it worked ok this time.

And i never claimed to have 30 years in the computer industry. You misread.

johnywhy.

-How do I delete the broken download?

Use your backup (best option) or even try Pfind.

If that's what it is ............................. If - If - If - ........................

As explained, highlight the whole link and use then use the URL button.

Jasper wrote:highlight the whole link and use then use the URL button.

yep, i've been using it correctly. Maybe a browser issue on another puppy i was using.

How do I delete the broken JRE download?

Jasper wrote:Use your backup (best option) or even try Pfind.

i used find in the console. Is that as good as pfind?

my fix was to manually download jre-1.7u4-i586.pet and install it. slickpet was giving me jre 1.6, which would not help anyway-- the web app i'm using requires 1.7.

Would be helpful if the JRE in slickpet displayed its version number.

i found the slickpet download here:
/initrd/mnt/dev_save

which is the PARENT directory of my puppy frugal install. seems strange for puppy to save stuff outside of the puppy directory. On the other hand, it avoids overloading the PSF. Still, seems like it could run into space or permissions issues up there-- or what if frugal is the top-level dir of the partition? Probably the slickpet devs handle those possible scenarios.

Is there something about my config or partitions that causes slickpet to save outside of the puppy directory?

Would be helpful if slickpet let me choose where to save downloaded files, or automatically purge them when the install is done.

"Anybody know where slickpet downloads to? I will try to find..."

Use Pfind.

"This netbook got knocked a few times."

Perhaps Slacko etc. could automatically repair all malfunctions and perhaps any dents as well, if 01micko or BarryK or playdayz or jemimah can only find the time

Jasper wrote:Perhaps Slacko etc. could automatically repair all malfunctions and perhaps any dents as well, if 01micko or BarryK or playdayz or jemimah can only find the time

Nobody expects that. My netbook has received no more nor fewer knocks than the average portable computer. It does not have any dents, and afaik, it's usb ports are in working order.

That said, my understanding is that one of puppy's goals is to work with older computers/outdated hardware. Older computers are more likely to have hardware dysfunction. So, i think it would be consistent with Puppy's goals to catch hardware dysfunction without crashing the OS, IMHO.

What do you use your USB ports for? USB1 or USB2?

I only use mine with USB sticks or an external drive and they do not last for ever.

What's your GHz/MHz ?

How much RAM have you?

Do you use a swap file or partition?

How old is your machine and what are its model details?

As previously suggested why not use your profile and signature?

Google Chrome 19 for Slacko

One possible advantage of Chrome (in addition to the speed) is that Flashplayer is built-in so that the external Flashplayer is not needed. I believe that this has solved problems people have had with youtube in Lucid. There has been discussion I read that Adobe will discontinue the Linux version of Flashplayer after 11.2 except for companies that "partner" with Adobe, which I understand that Google is or will

This version is set up so that some options that report to Google are turned off: Under "The Wrench" -> Settings -> Show Advanced Settings -> Privacy one can turn off some options which *might* insure that info is not sent to Google and *might* improve the quickness of the browser.

Additionally, in /usr/bin/google-chrome the command line option --disable-metrics is *in some versions* of Chrome said to turn off the collection of info that would be sent to Google--thereby not sending info and again possibly speeding up the browser. I am not sure if this works in Chrome 19 but the option is present. The browser Iron claims to provide further privacy safeguards but does not include flashplayer.

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/googl ... slacko.pet

johnywhy wrote:Thanks for tips, I don't mean to bitch. Just getting frustrated with what seem like endless bugs.

If nobody reports problems, nobody knows to fix them.

johnywhy wrote:-slickpet failure to log, detect, delete, or re-do incomplete download.

Could be worth bringing up as a feature request, not sure how complex getting SlickPet to be able to recognise problems would be, however.

johnywhy wrote:-How do I delete the broken download?

The download file for Pets on Slickpet is saved to /tmp/ (load the File icon from the desktop, go up one level by clicking the green arrow on the directory window toolbar and then bring up the /tmp/ directory).

SFS files (which I'm assuming your dodgy JRE download is) are saved to /mnt/home - the root directory of the drive or partition in which your save file is located.

johnywhy wrote:-Shouldn't puppy restart it from halfway point?

Bear in mind that resuming downloads requires both the software and the hosting server to support that feature. Even now a good number of servers don't support resume. That said, it's an excellent potential feature request which could be very useful if it can be implemented.

HTH!

Jasper wrote:What do you use your USB ports for? USB1 or USB2? I only use mine with USB sticks or an external drive

Me too, and video, audio, and photo devices, and card readers.

Jasper wrote:swap file or partition?

--not sure, it's a slacko 5.3.3 frugal. Does that tell you?

Jasper wrote:What's your GHz/MHz ? RAM ? How old , and model details? why not use your profile and signature?

Will do.

Jades wrote:If nobody reports problems, nobody knows to fix them.

sho' nuff.

Jades wrote:Could be worth bringing up as a feature request, not sure how complex getting SlickPet to be able to recognise problems would be, however.

For hardware failures, I'm thinking lower-level, not just slickpet. For interrupted downloads, that's seems a common feature in various places (like firefox). I suppose, a matter of setting a flag someplace that says "download finished". If no flag present, slickpet knows it was interrupted.

Jades wrote:The download file for Pets on Slickpet is saved to /tmp/.

SFS files are saved to /mnt/home

Which one? Confused.

Jades wrote:a good number of servers don't support resume. That said, it's an excellent potential feature request which could be very useful.

For servers that do not support resume, then just start over. Currently, neither happens. Could this also be done in the Package Manager?

If possible, please respond to these comments:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 539#630539
THANKS!

johnywhy wrote:

Jasper wrote:Perhaps Slacko etc. could automatically repair all malfunctions and perhaps any dents as well, if 01micko or BarryK or playdayz or jemimah can only find the time

Nobody expects that. My netbook has received no more nor fewer knocks than the average portable computer. It does not have any dents, and afaik, it's usb ports are in working order.

That said, my understanding is that one of puppy's goals is to work with older computers/outdated hardware. Older computers are more likely to have hardware dysfunction. So, i think it would be consistent with Puppy's goals to catch hardware dysfunction without crashing the OS, IMHO.

Please, Mr. Developer, I've got a gammy partition in one of the HDDs in this here computer (heat problem in summer), could you, please, make puppy realise by its own that I cannot install it THERE and expect to use it in SUMMER .
/MHHP

johnywhy wrote:Is there something about my config or partitions that causes slickpet to save outside of the puppy directory?

Slickpet downloads both Pet packages and SFS files. They work in different ways.

A Pet will install inside your save file, using up space as it does so. It is only available for use on the save it's been installed on - for example, if you had four different test installs of Puppy you would have to install the package on each one.

An SFS, on the other hand, is intended to reside outside the save file and be loaded as part of the boot sequence. The main benefit of this is that it won't use up any of your save's space - the Open Office 3.3 SFS is 150MB, for example. The only real drawback of SFS files is that they can't easily be installed on Full Installs of Puppy, AFAIK. Assuming that they're compatible with the Puppy version you're using, the one SFS file can be loaded by all frugal and full installs on that partition.

Perhaps the built-in documentation for Slickpet could be improved a bit to make the distinction clearer?

MinHundHettePerro wrote:Please, Mr. Developer, I've got a gammy partition in one of the HDDs in this here computer (heat problem in summer), could you, please, make puppy realise by its own that I cannot install it THERE and expect to use it in SUMMER.

The software world abounds with hardware fault-detection and remediation (unless we're talking about quantum computing). A google search brings up mcelog which, according to this site http://www.mcelog.org/, provides

Advanced hardware error handling for x86 Linux.

They say all linuxes have (or "should" have) mcelog enabled. I don't see the mcelog in it's default location /var/log in Slacko, but i do see mcelog available in the Slacko repositories. Someone more expert than me would have to explain how to install and use. Sadly, it looks like it may be 64 bit only. Perhaps some awesome puppy programmer could make a 32 bit version of MCELOG?

That is not a demand-- it's a suggestion. Is it an unreasonable suggestion? Maybe, maybe not. Until Barry Kauler comes around and says "we do not want suggestions or bug reports", let's talk about Puppy Linux.

Getting back to the actual business at-hand (puppy linux, not personal insults), mcelog is of a family of tools designed to process Machine Check Errors: hardware faults. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Check_Exception

Another MCE tool is mcedaemon:

Machine checks can indicate failing hardware, system overheats, bad DIMMs or other problems. Some MCEs are 'fatal' and can't generally be survived. Many, however are not fatal, and mced can help you detect and report them more accurately.

http://code.google.com/p/mcedaemon/ Maybe this or something like it could be made to work on puppy? That would be cool.

MS Windows contains a whole "Hardware Error Architecture". Is it any good? Maybe, maybe not. Does Puppy have something better? Something at all? Maybe, maybe not.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

I'm just reading what I find on the web. But the point is, I'm not the only person who thinks an OS should be able to at least detect, if not recover from, hardware failures.

i see a file in /var/log in Slacko called "messages". I do not understand it, but I do see messages like

Detected 1666.435 MHz processor

and

Thermal monitoring enabled (TM2)

-- perhaps whatever is writing to messages might also be employed in a hardware monitoring and alert system for a gamy hard disk.

If one wants to spend money, he could try SpinRite, which works on Linux too http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7684

And/or, one could mirror his drive, or some other form of redundancy-- if puppy supports it.

Amusing: "Frustrated Linux crapware victim asks "Are there any reliable Linux systems?" http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/frus ... 18121.html I really want to reply, "Yes, Puppy Linux!" --but I ain't feelin' that way atm.

Jades wrote:An SFS, on the other hand, is intended to reside outside the save file

so, the puppy package manager is not downloading SFS's into my PSF?

Also, what if my frugal install is at the top of a partition (not inside a directory)? Ie, if, during Universal Installer, I enter "sda2" for the directory, instead of "sda2/slacko5.3.3frugal". Where will slickpet download to?

johnywhy,

If a swap file or partition wasn't set up as a separate and specific exercise then you will not have one. A frequent recommendation on this Forum is that if your RAM is less than 512 MB then make your RAM + SWAP = 512 MB.

Pup devs, coders, testers, artists, specialists, generalists, helpers, translators, promoters and supporters donate their time, resources, energies, expertise and brainpower to advance the worthy cause.

Puppy works widely and is free - if it doesn't work for you - seek help here on the forum or walk away - don't condemn it without firm knowledge or acceptable evidence - don't falsely deter prospective users.