How to dual boot Puppy and Windows 7?

[W6LQR]

Repartitioned and installed Lucid Puppy but when I try to run Windows from Grub2 it wants to reinstall Windows. I let it go ahead and do the reinstall from the backup USB drive but same result. Puppy runs fine and I'd like to dump Windows but have a couple programs I'd still like to run.

The hard already had threee partitions uswed for Windows 7 so shrank the 3rd and largest, created a loigical one to hold the ext2 and swap file partitions.

Here is Grub, hope someone can help.

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.7
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Lupu 525 (sdb1)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /lupu_525.sfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title Lupu 525 (sdb1) RAM mode\nBoot up Puppy without pupsave
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /lupu_525.sfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

# Full installed Linux

title Lucid Puppy 525 (sda5/boot)
uuid dec390ec-024c-4d20-ba62-8f6700014635
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda5 ro

# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
errorcheck off
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bootmgr
chainloader /bootmgr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /io.sys
chainloader /io.sys
errorcheck on

# Boot from Partition Boot Sector

title Unknown (sda1:PBS)
uuid A848775048771BEE
chainloader +1

title Windows Vista/2008/7 (sda2:PBS)
uuid 20EC7850EC7821E8
chainloader +1

title Unknown (sda3:PBS)
uuid F2EC7A9EEC7A5D33
chainloader +1

title Lupu 525 (sdb1:PBS)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map --hook
uuid 4E38-081D
chainloader +1

# additionals

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

[RetroTechGuy]

I suspect that the easiest method is simply to save your lupusave on the hard disk (and the .sfs as well), then boot the CD whenever you want Puppy (I ran my Win98 system like this for perhaps a year, the first 6 months or so running onto a flash drive)

Alternatively, you could create a bootable USB flash drive, and stick it in when you want Puppy.

[dk60902]

Have you tried using Grub4Dos as the bootloader rather than Grub2?

[maik.murks]

Repartitioned and installed Lucid Puppy but when I try to run Windows from Grub2 it wants to reinstall Windows. I let it go ahead and do the reinstall from the backup USB drive but same result. Puppy runs fine and I'd like to dump Windows but have a couple programs I'd still like to run.

The hard already had threee partitions uswed for Windows 7 so shrank the 3rd and largest, created a loigical one to hold the ext2 and swap file partitions.

Here is Grub, hope someone can help.

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.7
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Lupu 525 (sdb1)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /lupu_525.sfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

title Lupu 525 (sdb1) RAM mode\nBoot up Puppy without pupsave
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /lupu_525.sfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram,fsck
initrd /initrd.gz

# Full installed Linux

title Lucid Puppy 525 (sda5/boot)
uuid dec390ec-024c-4d20-ba62-8f6700014635
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda5 ro

# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
errorcheck off
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bootmgr
chainloader /bootmgr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /io.sys
chainloader /io.sys
errorcheck on

# Boot from Partition Boot Sector

title Unknown (sda1:PBS)
uuid A848775048771BEE
chainloader +1

title Windows Vista/2008/7 (sda2:PBS)
uuid 20EC7850EC7821E8
chainloader +1

title Unknown (sda3:PBS)
uuid F2EC7A9EEC7A5D33
chainloader +1

title Lupu 525 (sdb1:PBS)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map --hook
uuid 4E38-081D
chainloader +1

# additionals

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

The above configuration you've posted is NO configuration of GRUB2. It seems to be that your configuration comes from a file called menu.lst - and GRUB2 has no menu.lst. Moreover it seems to be that the GRUB functionality you are working with is GRUB4DOS.

However, for some more information, please post a screenshot of your disk - how GParted sees it.

Cheers

Maik.Murks

[RetroTechGuy]

Have you tried using Grub4Dos as the bootloader rather than Grub2?

I think that grub4dos is incompatible with Vista/7 (I believe that is the engine under Lin'N'Win, which only works through WinXP).

I don't have a Win7 system to play with, but others have reported/indicated that it's more difficult to highjack the boot process on the newer systems (after all, M$ needs to prevent Linux from being near them...)

Thus, a USB boot or CD boot are likely to be the easiest routes.

Otherwise, I think that you need to put grub on the MBR (and that has always made me nervous).

When I want to put grub on a M$ Windows system, I would:

1) Back up the system so I can restore if I crash it
http://clonezilla.org/

2) Get the Debian live-boot installer
http://www.debian.org/CD/live/

3) Run the Debian live boot installer, and tell it that you want to keep the installed windows system.

It should get you to the point of a Debian command-line login, or more likely an X-windows login screen. Don't bother installing any packages, or even setting up the network access -- you don't need this.

The Debian gurus generally do a good job of setting up their installer, without breaking your existing system (and the few machines that I have put grub in the MBR, were all done with Debian). I'm sure some of the grub Gurus here can tell you how to do this directly, but still follow instruction #1 before trying it...

When I've done this, Debian builds a menu.lst file with needed Debian and Windows pointers inside.

Then to add Puppy, you simply edit the menu.lst (stored in /boot/grub on your Debian partition), and add in the Puppy pointers. You can, if you wish, boot the Puppy CD and remove everything Debian from that partition, except the /boot/ folder... (you want to boot from CD as the symbolic links in the Debian partition will cross-link with your Puppy files, and may damage components in your Puppy system -- instead let it damage the single-use Puppy system, stored only in RAM -- please don't mount anything other than the Debian partition, so any rogue delete processes can't traverse those folders)

[W6LQR]

Additional info that may help -

Yes, menu.lst was produced by Grub4-dos but is located in one of the Windows 7 partitions where boot files are.. Windows 7 has 3 primary partitions which I had to install Lucid Puppy on a logical partition along with the swap partition. You can only have 4 primary partitions of course.

I did have a backup of the system on a USB drive and have tried to return the NetBook to factory condition but after reloading everything ends up with an error message.

I did install Grub4-dos on the MBR as Puppy suggested and that may be what Windows objects to. On other computers I've been able to restore the MBR with fdisk on a floppy but the NetBook doesn't have a floppy or DC drive.

How can I restore the MBR ? Any other ideas ??

Jerry

[ICPUG]

Just to correct RetroTechGuy's comments.

grub4DOS IS compatible for Vista / Windows 7. Lin'N'Win does use grub4DOS but it is not written for Windows 7 because I've been lazy and not updated my Windows 7 machine with grub4DOS yet!

Noryb0009's Windows Installer for Puppy (an automated Lin'N'Win) works under Vista/Windows 7 but this option is no longer available for W6LQR because he says he has borked his MBR!

There should be a hazard warning in the Universal Installer that those intending to dual boot with Windows must not install Grub to the MBR unless they know what they are doing and they have a Windows Recovery Disk should it go wrong.

There should also be a hazard warning when Windows 7 is turned on that the user should create a Windows Recovery Disk and the warning should appear every boot until the disk is created or the warning is manually turned off!

[ICPUG]

W6LQR

Your menu.lst is a wonder to behold! From it I deduce, but cannot be certain, that (a) your first primary partition is the Windows 7 Recovery partition or perhaps a partition holding the files to restore the netbook to factory conditions. (b) your second partition is where Windows 7 is stored and (c) Your full install Puppy is on the first logical partition. (d) You have some frugal installed pups on another drive (e) not sure what your third primary partition is - maybe NTFS formatted for data?

Can you confirm those thoughts?

I would like to know
(a) Which entry from the grub menu do you try and boot Windows from. The construct of menu.lst for the Windows entry I have never seen the like of before!

The entry for:
Windows Vista/2008/7 (sda2:PBS)
seems the correct one to choose. Is this what you choose?

(b) What is the exact wording of the error message/instruction to install Windows please? Was the error message when you tried to return the netbook to factory conditions different? If so, what was it.

(c) Have you tried booting the entry:
Unknown (sda1:PBS)
What happens (I'm hoping you get the Windows Recovery options)?

Can you confirm that when you backed up your system to the USB disk you did a file copy only so that the MBR was not copied.

[RetroTechGuy]

Just to correct RetroTechGuy's comments.

grub4DOS IS compatible for Vista / Windows 7. Lin'N'Win does use grub4DOS but it is not written for Windows 7 because I've been lazy and not updated my Windows 7 machine with grub4DOS yet!

Thanks for the update, ICPUG.

Does this mean that one can hook Lin'N'Win into the Win7 bootloader (assuming you've done this a few times, and kinda know what you're doing)? Or does the code need a recompile?

Noryb0009's Windows Installer for Puppy (an automated Lin'N'Win) works under Vista/Windows 7 but this option is no longer available for W6LQR because he says he has borked his MBR!

There should be a hazard warning in the Universal Installer that those intending to dual boot with Windows must not install Grub to the MBR unless they know what they are doing and they have a Windows Recovery Disk should it go wrong.

Mucking with the MBR has ALWAYS made me nervous! That's why I am so happy to have found Lin'N'Win -- beautiful package and instructions... (and reversible, should one want to restore to a simple Windows machine). I think that I mentioned that I perform the mods from Puppy, during the Puppy install process...

In the past, I've found that Debian has been very reliable at installing grub to the MBR -- but not a task to take on lightly.

I'm sure that true grub experts will poo-poo going that route, but not being a grub expert, I've generally let the Debian experts do the work for me (but I still back up the system so it can be restored, should things go badly).

BTW, as for the possibly borked Win7 system -- I would boot Puppy (flash drive or CD), plug in a external USB drive, and copy any important documents off the computer, before trying to perform a Windows recover (in the old days, Windows "recover" often meant "scrub the drive, reinstall base system").

Better safe than sorry!...

[Ray MK]

Hi W6LQR

"The hard already had threee partitions uswed for Windows 7 so shrank the 3rd and largest, created a loigical one to hold the ext2 and swap file partitions."

Am assuming that you used Puppy and Gparted to shrink and repartition your ntfs HDD.

If that is the case you may have a problem.
I recall reading that W7 has it's own resize tool (although - could never find it) and if the HDD is resized
using something else (ie Gparted or similar) W7 really gets the hump.

The absolute simplest and most reliable way to dual-boot W7 and Puppy is to use grub4dos
installed to a USB stick or an SDcard.

Install grub4dos to a vfat formatted usb stick or SDcard after
1) first making sure it is marked as bootable
2) creating at least one Puppy folder containing the required puppy files to boot
(you can put as many different Puppy's in thier individually named folders as space or desire allows)
3) tell grub4dos to install itself to that disk only (making sure you tick the appropriate box)
4) grub4dos will automagically search the disk and prepare a suitable menu.lst file and install itself
to the selected disk (or multiple disk's if so instructed)
5) Make a folder called menu and make a copy (not move) the menu.lst file there as a backup.

Finally - reboot - and go.

The above proceedure can be repeated ad-infinitum.

HTH - very best regards - Ray

[ICPUG]

Does this mean that one can hook Lin'N'Win into the Win7 bootloader (assuming you've done this a few times, and kinda know what you're doing)? Or does the code need a recompile?
...

BTW, as for the possibly borked Win7 system -- I would boot Puppy (flash drive or CD), plug in a external USB drive, and copy any important documents off the computer, before trying to perform a Windows recover (in the old days, Windows "recover" often meant "scrub the drive, reinstall base system").

Better safe than sorry!...

Not sure what you mean by code needing a recompile. Just as you can hook the grub4DOS grldr file into the XP boot loader (as given in the Lin'N'Win instructions) you can also hook it into the Windows 7 boot loader (although it needs the grub4DOS grub.mbr file as well and a new set of more complicated instructions (!) ).

By the way, I haven't done this once yet! I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing though because I have been told a few times what to do and recently checked the process against the Windows 7 bcdedit manual before I will embark on the process! I have to convince myself I am not going to generate problems before I embark and I have to do it myself before I rewrite Lin'N'Win for Windows 7. As I said Noryb0009 has followed the process in the automatic Windows installer and others have followed it manually without problems.

Your comments about Windows Recovery are valid but the tools available in the Windows 7 Recovery Partition or Windows 7 Recovery Disk include (I think) one to fix a borked MBR without doing anything else.

Ray MK

You're absolutely right about the use of gparted on ntfs partitions. I prefer to use Windows tools as well and Windows 7 DOES have a resize tool. I found it and used it to create all sorts of partitions that my computer shop wanted to charge me £40 for if they did it on purchase of the machine! You do have to remember the limit of 4 primary partitions. If you don't and reach the limit you may think you have an error in certain circumstances.

You have a point also that installing to USB or SD Card is probably the safest way to dual boot Windows 7 and Linux as most machines these days can boot this way. Not sure it is the simplest - but that is a personal view. Some of us just want to use the hard disk for various reasons - slightly faster boot - too lazy/awkward to put a stick in - aesthetically more pleasing and less hazardous not to have a stick poking out!

[CatDude]

Hello Ray MK

....I recall reading that W7 has it's own resize tool (although - could never find it).....

Open the Control Panel, and type partition into the search box.

CatDude
.

[Ray MK]

Hi CatDude

Appreciate the pointer and diagrams - fantastic - just what I and very likely many others needed.
Now I feel much more confident about putting a ext partition on the latest laptop HDD.

Many thanks and very best regards - Ray

[ur2d2r]

Just to correct RetroTechGuy's comments.

grub4DOS IS compatible for Vista / Windows 7. Lin'N'Win does use grub4DOS but it is not written for Windows 7 because I've been lazy and not updated my Windows 7 machine with grub4DOS yet!

Noryb0009's Windows Installer for Puppy (an automated Lin'N'Win) works under Vista/Windows 7 but this option is no longer available for W6LQR because he says he has borked his MBR!

There should be a hazard warning in the Universal Installer that those intending to dual boot with Windows must not install Grub to the MBR unless they know what they are doing and they have a Windows Recovery Disk should it go wrong.

There should also be a hazard warning when Windows 7 is turned on that the user should create a Windows Recovery Disk and the warning should appear every boot until the disk is created or the warning is manually turned off!

Is it possible to make a Recovery Disk of Win7 after Puppy_slacko_531 has been Frugally installed? I am trying to uninstall a Frugal install to Win7, using grub4dos, and have no idea where to start...finding out, not all advice from puppy chat is sound but, mostly they are a great help. Thanks in advance.

[rcrsn51]

Please describe exactly what your problem is. Does Win7 no longer boot?

[ur2d2r]

Please describe exactly what your problem is. Does Win7 no longer boot?

I have done a Frugal install on my brother-in-laws laptop (with grub4dos), based on advice given to me in a chat room. He was very excited to finally try Linux out for the first time and Puppy was recommended. I installed it on his Win7 machine and now he would like Puppy to be placed lower in the boot menu. He would like to be able to turn his machine on and walk away (knowing Win7 will load first) and when he has time to check out Puppy HE wants to be able to scroll down to it in the MBR. If it's not possible to change the boot order to accommodate he needs, then he would just like it removed and put back to the way it was before installing slacko_531. (I'm a newbie and never should have installed this to his lappy. Last time I make this mistake...kinda mad at myself right now)

[rcrsn51]

I installed on a Win7 machine and now he would like it to be placed lower in the boot menu.

Boot up to Puppy and look in the Windows partition

You should see a file called menu.lst. Click on it to open it in a text editor.

At the top, you should see two lines named "timeout" and "default".

Change the "default" number to load Windows first. Note that the menu items are numbered starting at 0.

Then change the "timeout" number to whatever time your b-i-l wants (in seconds).

If you are not comfortable doing this, post a copy of the menu.lst file here so we can see it.

[ur2d2r]

I installed on a Win7 machine and now he would like it to be placed lower in the boot menu.

Boot up to Puppy and look in the Windows partition

You should see a file called menu.lst.

I have booted Puppy and have looked in the ntfs partition and I cannot see the menu.lst file. Where would it be?

[rcrsn51]

Does your setup have any other partitions? Look in them.

If you can't find the menu.lst file anywhere, the next procedure would be to restore the MBR to the Win7 original. Be advised that you are moving into potentially dangerous territory.

Download and install the new version of ms-sys from here.

Run the command:

Code: Select all

ms-sys -7 -w /dev/sda

[ur2d2r]

Does your setup have any other partitions? Look in them.

You were correct. The Frugal install made a 1g partition for itself and the menu.lst was inside.

As for changing the "Default" from "0" how do I know which "#" to replace it with? Do I count down the list as:

0=puppy_slacko_531
1=puppy_slacko_531_RAM
2=Windows
3=Windows XP/Vista/7

Win7 is the only other os installed btw. Is this a trial and error process? Replace "0" with a "1" and see what it does? Can I feel safe doing that?
TY for your help also.