App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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L18L
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Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

#16 Post by L18L »

greengeek wrote:
L18L wrote:I have a small (16M is more than enough) bootable partion containing grub on every device (1 hardisk, several USB sticks, no CD).

Thus you could try frugal installs without burning a CD
So do you mean that your boot partition is just big enough for grub, and that the remainder of the frugal files live on the usb sticks? So you just use the hard drive as a boot device only? Or did you mean that each usb stick also has grub on it, requiring the PC to support boot_from_usb?
thx
In a boot partition there is grub and a complete tiny distribution (not in use but works). I have used this on my box without harddisk or CD about one year. Yes, boot from USB is required.
Late I have installed a SSD (behaves like a harddisk but faster).
And there too grub in boot partition. Several puppies all frugal in their own directory.

Your Computer has USB but does not boot from it.
With grub in a bootable partition (or any bootloader) of your harddisk you can boot different operating system.
Not the iso directly, but I hope you find elsewhere howto copy the relevant files from inside the iso into the appropriate location.

First step would be:
Use gparted to create an extra boot partition and maybe a swap partition after having resized the existing partition. You can do this from a puppy running from CD.

Second step
Installation of grub. Should be included in Puppy Universal Installer.

To have a partition of its own for grub is not absolutely required but convenient.

I do not have experience using grub4dos, but I assume it is easier to install. (nooby knows how to do it)

Good luck
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nooby
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#17 Post by nooby »

I do not have experience using grub4dos, but I assume it is easier to install. (nooby knows how to do it)
Nope I would not count on that at all.
What I do try to learn but is a slow learner is to get Linux distros
that are not supposed to work on NTFS formatted drives to work
or at least to load to desktop so one can see how them are set up
with menu and how one find things and personal settings and what
software that is included and how it looks and behaves.

Sadly due to how hardware and software interact very often one
can not save to the partition that one boot from. Ubuntu due to some
pure luck makes it possible to save to NTFS. I don't trust them support
that and most likely them will change code so it will not be possible
after next security update.

But that is my hobby. see my signature.

1. So it is a trade off. Us Qemu or Vbox or Xen or the new one
that I've forgot name for to test drive things easily?

2. Try my more difficult approach to boot them using tricks
and that way get partial use of many distros but not doing full installs
first but only after you have used them in frugal install for a long time.

3. Try to get hold of an old computer that you can format without
losing anything. or accept to lose the recover partitions when you
resize a new computer.

Why am I fanatic? Because Sony Ericson and other Smartphone makers
seems to have decided that if 95% of all their customers only use Ms
then that is the OS them make use of to upgrade their Software.
So I always try to dual boot with the hated MS OS and I hate it too.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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sickgut
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#18 Post by sickgut »

grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc

nooby
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#19 Post by nooby »

sickgut wrote:grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc
Nope I trust it is not something I did at all. It is the Ubuntu Developers
that forgot to put an x in a box them always have since many years
and them very proud of doing it too and very adamant in keeping it
ideologically supported with fancy rhetoric in the Ubuntu forums.

then suddenly them forgot to tick that box and now almost all Ubuntu
can be used in a way them had not anticipated nor expected and them
certainly don't want to be used that way.

I would thank D4P for giving me the first part of teh solution but
his system on his home page is too elaborate for me to follow.

One need to do partitions and I don't want to do such.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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greengeek
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#20 Post by greengeek »

Ok, so far I have mostly been concentrating on GCMartins suggested method of trialling different isos by booting across a LAN (No more wasted CDs!).

More to follow on the other methods later.

The LAN method is this: The puppy PC that contains all of my downloaded iso files is set up as a "Boot file source" or "PXE server" and is available to provide the boot files to any other PC that is set up to "boot from LAN" rather than booting from CD, HDD or USB etc.

If you wanted to you could boot a whole bunch of LAN PCs from the one machine. Don't even need a hard drive or operating system in those other machines.

I was amazed how simple this was to set up. (Thanks GCMartin for the excellent assistance)

Really all it takes is ten minutes to get it running. So easy. And you don't need to have any networking or file sharing already set up at all. Nothing.

I just tried to attach a document detailing the process but apparently neither pdf nor abw attachments are permitted. Hmmm... how best to post this??

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greengeek
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#21 Post by greengeek »

I will just try pasting the text.... (sorry, this doesn't look very elegant..)

Booting a PC via your LAN - Made Simple:

Premise: This is a simplified explanation for setting up a Puppy PC as a “bootfile source
Last edited by greengeek on Sun 27 May 2012, 00:23, edited 11 times in total.

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Flash
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#22 Post by Flash »

Greengeek, on the subject of not making coasters to try out Puppy, I've been using CD-RW and DVD-RW for years. Puppy seems to like them just fine. I burn Puppy to them using Burniso2cd.

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greengeek
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#23 Post by greengeek »

Flash wrote: I've been using CD-RW and DVD-RW for years. Puppy seems to like them just fine. I burn Puppy to them using Burniso2cd.
Hadn't thought of that... when I first tried using CDRW (years ago) I had so many problems and lost so much data that I never went back to them. Perhaps the technology has improved a bit?

I'll see if I still have one lying around and give it a go.

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greengeek
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#24 Post by greengeek »

nooby wrote:wrong place I move this post
It was not as easy as you wrote compared to
just using iso boot.

Setting up a server is not an easy thing. Servers are
the most exploited computer thing on earth. I will not do it!
Nooby - I decided to try all of the methods people are suggesting here and I just wanted to let you know that setting up the "server" to share iso files turned out to be so easy that it takes only a few minutes.

It is really handy for me because it means I can even try different puppy isos on machines that don't have a CD drive or can't boot from USB.

It also means I can get my other family members to trial puppy without even getting out of their chair, and without them having to load a CD or USB stick. They can just reboot and select "boot by LAN" and give it a try.

Simple, simple, simple. Just one more bit of fun.

gcmartin

#25 Post by gcmartin »

sickgut wrote:grub4dos and grub2 can both boot isos directly, IF the iso is specially "prepared" to allow that functions. How to prepare the iso to do that? no one knows lol.

cant do it with debian but you can with some ubuntus etc
Contact Shinobar via PPM. He is the resident authority on GRUB4DOS. I also understand that rscnr51 also is an authority on GRUB4DOS as well. Ech of these members can help.

I have been booting ISO since February thanks to JamesBiond's Netboot PET. It works flawlessly. And unless you choose to after you have booted the PC there is never any modifications that are necessary. And, should you choose, you can install (frugal or main) after you have booted from the Netboot service.

No knowledge required. Just a little reading for understanding.

Hope this helps

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L18L
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App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

#26 Post by L18L »

greengeek wrote:..
I just tried to attach a document detailing the process but apparently neither pdf nor abw attachments are permitted. Hmmm... how best to post this??
Just rename your file to file.gz
My 2 cents

Though I cannot use this excellent method because I have got just a poor man´s single computer I want to thank you very much. There is always something new to learn. :)

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greengeek
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Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

#27 Post by greengeek »

L18L wrote: Just rename your file to file.gz
Oh, o.k. So you just mean change the suffix to .gz? Or do you mean I should use gzip to repackage it? thx

gcmartin

Re: App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

#28 Post by gcmartin »

greengeek wrote:
L18L wrote: Just rename your file to file.gz
Oh, o.k. So you just mean change the suffix to .gz? Or do you mean I should use gzip to repackage it? thx
Should you chnage the suffix be sure to attach a note or indicate in the comments what was done. Using gzip speaks for itself in that anyone double-clicking a GZIP file gets to see its contents.

Hope thsi helps

gcmartin

#29 Post by gcmartin »

I saw newbie's post on this.

But, what I miss is an example section for GRUB4DOS that show a modern Puppy's ISO being defined for boot. Is there an example for booting an ISO directly. (I understand about the opening ISO and copying stuff to a folder, BUT, I am looking for a "Boot the Puppy ISO" definition.

Thanks in advance, if you can recommend a sample or example.

amigo
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#30 Post by amigo »

Here's an example (manual commands) as given in this thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=774539

grub> map (hd1,1)PATHtoISO.iso (hd4)
grub> map --rehook
grub> chainloader (hd4)+1
grub> rootnoverify (hd4)
grub> boot

Here's an example as it would be written in the menu.lst file:
title Test ISO Boot
map (hd0,0)/Test.iso (hd3)
map --rehook
chainloader (hd3)+1
rootnoverify (hd3)
boot

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greengeek
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#31 Post by greengeek »

nooby wrote:another way is this Frugal boot of isos. Seems to work best with puppy.
Ooops one use puppy to mount the iso by clicking on it and then copy the dirs out to a subdir with same name as the iso see example.
Beware that the preseed need to ahve right name. ubuntu or mint or custom or ... see examples below.

I have ideas but all depends on your exact needs.
Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?

What I mean is - do you think some clever person could write a programme or script that would ask which iso you wanted to try, then automatically extracted the subdirs from the iso and added "one specific boot entry" into the menu.lst (as "TESTNEWPUPPY" for example) and then prompted the user to "now reboot".

That way all the user would have to do is:
1) Run the script
2) Choose the iso
3) Reboot
4) watch the machine start the new iso
5) Reboot the machine and choose a "non "TESTNEWPUPPY" entry if something had gone wrong with the test.

nooby
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#32 Post by nooby »

Wish I could help you out. I ahve given wrong impression of
what I know and don't know. Sorry to be misleadng.

It is late ehre now so I go to bed.

I put a note here to look at this tomorrow.
thanks for putting trust in my willingness to be a hlper
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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rcrsn51
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#33 Post by rcrsn51 »

greengeek wrote:Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?
This is what I use for testing:

Code: Select all

title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing 
initrd /testing/initrd.gz
I click on a Puppy ISO, copy the core files into the "testing" folder and reboot.

nooby
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#34 Post by nooby »

title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz

This part is a good one for puppy.

psubdir=testing That allow it to boot the sfs within that subdir
because some puppies looks for that sfs file on all drives it can mount.

And pmedia and pdev tell it to narrow down to atahd and not look on CD?
Or maybe it set the pupmode level? How often to save to that media?

IIRC there are 12 different modes?

greengeek, as you see I know almost nothing.
When I wrote what you cited that where a kind of relapse
into "Want to help out even if I know almost nothing mode"

I trust that you and I need to learn more how linux boots.

But first how bootloaders boot and when they let the linux take over
the boot.

One can see that sometimes if one look at the text that flies by. bye?

Suddenly it change from one resolution to another. My wild guess
is that that maybe indicate that it went over to the linux script inside
initrd.gz and then it is too late to give it order unless one set up
break points that stop the boot process?

Antix had such Over at their forum they gave example
if one put a 3 on the kernel line then it stop at a specific time
in the script and you can do adjustment of parameters. Going in and
tell it specific things. Using a 9 stop it at a later point and you can
tell the script something else.

I don't know if that is exclusive for that distro or that version even.

Now I need to find where I wrote that text so I can try to recall
what was on my mind at that time. Wish me luck

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 669#583669

I gave example

Here is a starter that allow you test some 95% of all variations of Ubuntu.
I give example for a few.



title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


title Linux Mint 12 RC works ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso
kernel /LM12/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /LM12/casper/initrd.lz




title Bodhi Linux boots from bodhi_1.2.1.iso lacks mediaplayer
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bodhi_1.2.1.iso
kernel /bodhi/casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/custom.seed boot=casper persistent iso-scan/filename=/bodhi_1.2.1.iso quiet splash --
initrd /bodhi/casper/initrd.gz


All these three are variations of Ubuntu but they differ in preseed name.
And they differ how they treat the initrd two of them lz and one gz
only two different ways to pack them as small as possible.

such details are important. Another important thing is to not include the
hidden directory named .dist or similar name that one most often makes
it fail in an important way for my purpose.

Now what I want goes against the policy of Ubuntu so never mention
that on their forums. Not on linux mint either or other such forums.
that could result in you getting banned for being illoyal to their agenda.

They want to protect every user from doing fatal mistake and the way
I boot allow those mistakes so people tell me to not share thus glitch
in the armor.

But I am not sure what I wanted to tell you. I trust it was just my inner
emotional need to be of help that got me carried away. So sorry.

Back on topic. What you ask for is maybe partially dealt with using
something they named Underdog?

Barry had a blog entry about it recently. I try to find it.

Remember Underdog?
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13750
This is a very handy device for running programs in Puppy from another Linux distro whose partition Puppy Linux shares. Doesn't seem to merit much attention these days - I can't understand why that is - it's very nifty!

For example I have Vector Linux installed underneath Puppy in partition "hda"and have direct access to all these handy utils that Vector has which could be extremely useful in Puppy were they available - e.g. rpm2tgz, pkgtool, installpkg, slapt-get to name but a few.

This little script will enable underdog for you or remove the connection as required. It works by creating the file "underdog.lnx" containing a single line "hda1" (no quotes). The PC will the reboot with this file now in place in the home partition - i.e.
where your pup_save.3fs resides. If you use option 2 to remove the connection without there being an existing underdog.lnx file in the home partition, the script will simply exit without a reboot. Otherwise the script removes the file and reboots Puppy back to normal. Alter the value of variable string1 to whatever your home partition is called.

#!/bin/sh
#tronkel
#this little bash script when run from a terminal will start or remove underdog.
#system reboots after completion of script if "underdog.lnx" is present otherwise will simply #exit the shell. System will also reboot if "Start" option is selected



string1="hda1"
select item in Start Remove
do
if [ $item = "Start" ];then
touch /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
echo $string1 >> /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
elif [ $item = "Remove" ];then
if [ ! -e /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx ];then
echo "underdog.lnx does not exist"
exit
else
rm /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx
echo "underdog removed"
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
fi
else
break
fi
done


I also attach the script as a file
I screamed Wow Jay more of such things when I read it.

rcrsn51 most likely understand what it is all about.
I wish I could get it too. It is close to what we want is it not?

Barry wrote an answer linking to the blog entry
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Underdog is described here:

http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

Yes, it is a very interesting idea, but has died through lack of interest.

Puppy no longer supports 'underdog.lnx', but I could bring it back.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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vovchik
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#35 Post by vovchik »

Dear nooby,

Glad to see you back here. Hang around. We don't bite and miss your insights.

With kind regards,
vovchik

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