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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Developing FirstRUN for Puppy CD's initial boot
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PANZERKOPF

Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011, 12:02    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:

Does that mean that instead of usung aufs? and Squash? it
only uses vmlinuz and initrd and as you say the root is imbedded.

Aufs is mostly used when we want to create a writable layer (tmpfs or other) upon read only filesystem (squashfs or other). Initramfs used in Microsaurus is already writable so aufs is unneeded here.

nooby wrote:

I know almost nothing. My vague grasp is that vmlinuz is the kernel
and that initrd is a kind of script that read what grub menu.lst has to
offer as puppy code like pfix=ram and other such codes.
Then the init read scripts take care of a lot of things as an overlay
to the kernel.

Initrd is archive contains tools and scripts. Kernel unpacks it to the ramfs and
runs init script. After initialisation we can continue working in that rootfs (Microsaurus and Tinycore way) or delete it and jump to the other root filesystem (Puppy way).

nooby wrote:

I guess that is what Tiny Core do too or similar?

Yes, with one difference: Tinycore uses separate file (initrd.gz) whereas Microsaurus has embedded it into kernel image. Recent kernels (since 2.6.??
have forgotten.....) let us integrate an archive (was mentioned above) to the body.
So we have one file with complete OS inside. Smile

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4424

PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011, 22:19    Post subject:  

I put together a gtk1 version with goingnut's multicall binary of ROX-Filer, Xdialog, dillo, mtpaint and minimum profit (text editor) ... it also has aumix but sound/internet still isn't supported.

The environment variables for rox are set in the init binary (APP_DIR and CHOICESPATH)

Resource usage is hovering around 6-7mb , but that is without the Rox Pinboard (desktop icons) ... I still need to figure out the old format and where it goes.
microsaurusgtk.jpg
 Description   to run the pinboard as pictured use:
ROX-Filer -p default
 Filesize   10.09 KB
 Viewed   1095 Time(s)

microsaurusgtk.jpg

bzImagegtk.tar.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  bzImagegtk.tar.gz 
Filesize  1.94 MB 
Downloaded  257 Time(s) 

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Fri 23 Dec 2011, 02:17    Post subject:  

pinbord entries in /root/Choices/ROX-Filer PuppyPin.
Loaded via /sbin/pup_event_frontend_d which needs patch for grid, yafsplash, busybox difff a.o. to work with BB only.
Run "/sbin/clean_desk_icons" and "/sbin/pup_event_frontend_d" via /root/.xinitrc before running:

#ROX-pin
if [ $(which rox) ]; then
#relocates right-side icons to actual right-side of screen...
/usr/sbin/fixPuppyPin /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
fi

(also from /root/.xinitrc)

Note: PinboardAdd supported but not PinboardRemove

Last edited by goingnuts on Sun 25 Dec 2011, 10:15; edited 3 times in total
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4424

PostPosted: Fri 23 Dec 2011, 06:35    Post subject:  

goingnuts wrote:
pinbord entries in /root/Choices/ROX-Filer PuppyPin.
Loaded via /sbin/pup_event_frontend_d which needs patch for grid, yafsplash, busybox difff a.o. to work with BB only.
Run "/sbin/clean_desk_icons" and "/sbin/pup_event_frontend_d" via /root/.xinitrc before running:

#ROX-pin
if [ $(which rox) ]; then
#relocates right-side icons to actual right-side of screen...
/usr/sbin/fixPuppyPin /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
fi

(also from /root/.xinitrc)

Note: PinboardAdd supported but not PinboardRemove

I kinda figured it out. I am exporting APP_DIR as /usr/share/ROX-Filer (with the pixmaps directory symlinked to ../pixmaps) and CHOICESPATH as just /usr/share - putting the MIME-* directories in a more standardized place with other mime stuff (and reachable in a multi-user setup by exporting new paths)... I don't want to use any legacy Puppy-isms where it can be improved upon.
All in all it is getting a decent feel to it - I will probably set the default resolution in the gtk1 version to {1024x768,800x600}x16 though (will use some extra resources, but not as cramped)
I do miss gtkdialog a bit, but gtkserver could be a replacement since it does have a gtk1 backend... only not as many examples.

something this (untested) would support multiple possible locations depending on user/mode/etc...:
Code:
for x in ${CHOICESPATH//:/ }/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin; do
[ -x "$x" ] && fixPuppyPin "$x" && break
done


for using in standard Puppy's / Puplets the startupcommand (init within X) could use meminfo to determine whether to keep the gtk versions or bump up to gtk2/3 on the main filesystem as well as which daemons to run by default

One thing that no package manager really does, is track the typical resource usage. If I continue to develop this, it will be an integral part of package management. This way we could list all of the packages that provide for instance "defaultbrowser" by resource usage, with any that exceed the systems resource limit by itself grayed out and/or italicized if it could cause problems in typical usage. This could even be based on MIME-types such that the default handler for each MIME-Type defaults to opening the package manager to those "provides". ... but that would be too simple, right?

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Fri 23 Dec 2011, 14:30    Post subject:  

Great stuff, techno
I really like the sound of the final paragraph....can't believe it hasn't been included before

Might a Puppy4.4 evolve out of this, or is it abandoned?
There seemed to have been plenty of .pet tests....but no OS??
...or did I miss it because it was so fast? Wink
Maybe add-on SFS's is the way to go, on a barebone/microsaurus base?

Interesting xorg development - dynamic loading video

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTAzMjM



Aitch Smile
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TheAsterisk!


Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 403
Location: SE Wisconsin, US

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 08:10    Post subject:  

Just came across Microsaurus this morning. My goodness. I had to resist the urge to mumble, "Don't sneeze," when I copied the bzImage over to its new boot directory.

Great stuff, technosaurus.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3208
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 14:26    Post subject:  

Came across this mentioned in the Akita thread... very interesting indeed. One important question: what is missing in order to create Internet capability? Just a browser, or something more important like support for connections of various sorts?

I have to say, this has me excited... no offense to goingnuts at all, but PupNGo was never an everyday-practical puplet, lacking some significant things. If this puplet could be not only tiny, but also /useful/ (containing web and word-processing software at least) then that would be *amazing*.

One thing that may or may not help here... about to try out a browser (on my windoze box Embarassed ) called QtWeb. It's pretty dern tiny... about 6mb. Of course, one will want flash and javascript and all that other crunk, so that will balloon the size a little, but perhaps not too much.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4424

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 16:14    Post subject:  

As this was mostly a proof of concept I disabled _everything_ and only enabled what was absolutely necessary. I do have an initramfs tree that can be included in any kernel compile from vanilla sources or pretty much any distro's patched kernel (just add the initramfs location in the .config and then make bzImage). The only difference is that if you use your distro's initrd, it will likely overwrite my init that boots straight to desktop. (you may be able to fix this by simply moving the init in the initrd.gz to /bin/startupcommands - jwm will run it when it starts up)
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 16:38    Post subject:  

Pardon a fair bit of cranial density here... but...

OK, I un-tarballed the bzImage, plopped it on a USB stick, and... it didn't work. Does it need a bootloader, or am I missing something else...?

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4424

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 17:10    Post subject:  

Yes, but any working x86 bootloader should do, just edit the configs for its location ... You won't need the initrd entry since it is built-in.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 02:31    Post subject:  

Interesting that my USB mouse works....albeit wildly. Pendrive worked. Reminds me of the early days of TC.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3208
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 03:40    Post subject:  

Interesting little doohickey...

On my netbook, Processes is broken (pops up and crashes instantly), and every command I've ever used (with the exception of cd) doesn't work in rxvt -- examples = ls init [and a lot of paths] . Heck, half the time I can't even cd somewhere. Seems like the sr0 path is broken, too -- opens an rxvt window instead.

Also... where's the shutdown thingy? All I can do is a hard shutdown (power button)... weird.

BTW, my netbook uses a 16:9 screen (usually 1024x600) so the windows were a little stretched... guessing here, but it looks like you're forcing 640x480 resolution...

BTW, the only way I could get the thing to boot with ****ing Grub Legacy (installed from Wary 513; Grub4DOS didn't see a dern thing) was to press c at the boot menu and then manually type in:
Code:
 kernel /bzImage
boot bzImage


For some reason, it wouldn't do that from menu.lst (odd, since it's the exact same text...). Very strange... will test with syslinux later.

Of note, booting from a PNY 4gb usb stick -- one of the ones Wal*Mart had for a while (little clearish dark plastic swing thing covering the port, not a slidey stick). Handy little bugger, that.

Two other questions...
(1) could this run on a 486 w/o FPU?
(2) ...with only 4mb RAM?

I'm guessing the answers are "no" and "no", in that order, but I'm not sure, so I thought I'd ask...

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 04:42    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:


For some reason, it wouldn't do that from menu.lst (odd, since it's the exact same text...). Very strange... will test with syslinux later.


You can just change the name to vmlinuz
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 07:34    Post subject:  

Pretty cool. Be nice if we could save stuff then we could build on it ourselves Smile . My touchpad actually worked better than lupu, luki and slacko ootb on my IBM r51.
Reminded me a bit of BL2, a jwm thing on 2 floppies.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 19:06    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
Pretty cool. Be nice if we could save stuff then we could build on it ourselves Smile . My touchpad actually worked better than lupu, luki and slacko ootb on my IBM r51.
Reminded me a bit of BL2, a jwm thing on 2 floppies.


Maybe a mini-core with puppy as user; I'm sure there would be a lot of support from the community. I can hardly wait to see this posted on DistroWatch. Smile
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