(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Guys sufficient developers have committed
to buying a Raspberry PI ARM motherboard

You can too - soon . . .

Puppy on ARM = PARM
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

**The (very rough) Plan**

Task 1
Get Debian working on pi board

Task 2
reconfigure working environment
boot to root
terminal
Rox
JWM
+ Geany + c compiler
ash/bash script language
+ Xchat or link to meebo and Puppy IRC
gmail and twitter links

Task 3
first line icons
file goes to rox
help goes to this wiki page
install not needed
edit goes to Geany
console goes to terminal
second line icons
mtpaint or cut down version in igus version
calc
draw = inkscape or Xara
browser
gmail and twitter links

Task 4
turn into ISO and provide pre-alpha

task 5
start adding puppy scripts and programs, linking from menu
eg. Puppy Phone

First we need to be able to boot.

As I remember but could have misunderstood?

The company Broadcom that owns the "binary" of the boot
them prepare these boot binaries for each OS that are allowed
by them to use it. Without such a binary there is no way to boot it!

Up to now them have allowed Debain and Ubuntu but them jumped ship?
Them have allowed Arch but none else to boot.

The boot code is proprietary Only Broadcom knows how to set it up.

None of the current Devs knows how to set up other linux.

I could be wrong but for as long as the Admin of the RPi has not asked
Broadcom to include Puppy then there is no way to boot Puppy on it.

So the interesting thing is will the Broadcom management accept that
Puppy wants to run as root. I trust that Broadcom will insist that Puppy
make a multi user environment for Raspberry Pi!

Them own the proprietary binary code and them set the policy
for it's usage and them care about the company image of Broadcom.

To allow any Linux to run as root can be a red herring to them.

nooby wrote:First we need to be able to boot.

2) Really hard to brick these devices. And, in the case of an R-Pi, you yank the SD, re-image, re-insert the SD, and BOOT.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 461#572461

yank here most likely means delete or erase?
Re-image with what? where do you get the code to re-image it with?

Lobster, when I posted my opinion on ARM based Puppy, people tried real hard to convince me that it is NOT possible because ARM structure is so much different from x86.

I was so discouraged. (even though I have seen similar posts in this forum..)

Do you really think it is possible? People brainwashed me and I did become skeptical.

I don't think logo is the first thing.

Pi isn't complete. need casing, power supply etc. Please check the Indian $35(or $60 for non student).

Why not convert old notebooks into PAD using motion sensor.
No touch screen but motion sensor.

It might make more economical sense since you are using laptops being discarded.

It is now possible on phone(started from a Korean half old lady's idea)

I am saying this as ARM based could be difficult.

Pi isn't complete. need casing, power supply etc. Please check the Indian $35(or $60 for non student).

Why not convert old notebooks into PAD using motion sensor.
No touch screen but motion sensor.

It might make more economical sense since you are using laptops being discarded.

It is now possible on phone(started from a Korean half old lady's idea)

I am saying this as ARM based could be difficult.

Pi isn't complete. need casing, power supply etc. Please check the Indian $35(or $60 for non student).

Why not convert old notebooks into PAD using motion sensor.
No touch screen but motion sensor.

It might make more economical sense since you are using laptops being discarded.

It is now possible on phone(started from a Korean half old lady's idea)

I am saying this as ARM based could be difficult.

Oh my,

triple posted.

puppyiso wrote: Do you really think it is possible?

We are a penguin.
Linux runs on Pi
We are a Linux.
Puppy can run on Pi.

I am not getting a Pi to run Debian or Fedora.
It was always possible. It was a question of the right device.

This is now it.
Developers are interested. Testers are poised.

As I get it Puppy will only exists on Raspberry Pi
if the Admins of that Univrsity tell the Broadcom
to allow for it on the Binary that is needed for the boot.

That means somebody has to sit down and make a new binary
just for Puppy to be able boot on the Pi.

Okay them maybe do it for John Murga and Barry Kauler.
But it also depends on if Broadcom accept that Puppy run as root!

Do we know if Broadcom want to spend money on Puppy?
What is in it for them?

The boot up stage is like so at the moment
http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoardBeginners
A ready made ISO will be considerably simpler.

Pi intend to supply ready made ISO for the inbuilt SD.
So early adopters will be booting to Fedora (we would be able to use code from Drake Pup) or Debian (Dpup). Ubuntu and Slackware ISO are not available at present. We are using the Pi board as a common starting ground for Puppy on Arm

A .img has already been produced for the Elonex/Trendtek/etc and runs well. Since when did Scandanavians cow-tow to greedy Yankie cartels?! Puppy is an Oz creation and the Raspberry claims to be 'all Indian'. Presumably the chips are made in Phillipines/Singapore/anywhere-not-USA and the balance of components are mainly Chinese/Indian. Folks worrying about Yankie retaliation should cut off their vital supplies...

cut off their vital supplies

or even: cut off their vital s

Its definitely possible to run linux on pi.

The challenge is to get a GUI that is a similar to the 'puppy experience'.

that is, easy to use, basic packages ready to go (browser, writer, editor, etc.) and speedy (as in usable).

Eben said computing power is about an eighth of £200 x86 box.

I believe it can be done. arm version of linux exist, its a question of optimising to the fullest.

I wonder how the GPU and CPU can be used effectively together. may need to optimise some ARM code.

isn't the way to do this to mod Woof a bit, create a build a toolchain (chroot environment thing) and start compiling from source..? Barry does that with T2, I'm sure looking at things like ttylinux build scripts and others like will help make an arm supported woof...

Hey lobster where did you get the raspberry part of the logo thats on the wikka page?

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

I am looking to do some artwork.

Time to share my thoughts about the subject.

I believe the best way for the ARM porting effort is same as the solution for the 64-bit Puppy problem.

Puppy relies on many binary packages (e.g Busybox, Bash) that were originally built on Puppy 2.x or 4.x and Barry kept using them in 4.3.1, which means they're still with us at 5.3.

I convinced Barry he should move all those to one repository, which is the "Packages-puppy-common-official" repository. My idea was to have just those annoying core packages there, but Barry put much more than that, mostly Wary packages that are compatible with most Puppies.

The fact these are binary packages means it's impossible to port Puppy to other architectures, since they aren't portable.

The solution for this problem is simple - automate the procedure needed to compile those. I wrote build scripts for most of those, which work with my package building tool, Builder. All I need to port Puppy to x86_64, theoretically, is a way to build 64-bit packages from a 32-bit Puppy.

What I'm doing now is something I've experimented already - a 32-bit Puppy with a 64-bit kernel (e.g a Puppy that can run both 32- and 64-bit stuff) that I can use to cross-compile all those packages for x86_64.

Similarly, I could build a cross-compiler that runs on x86 but produces ARM binaries. Once these are ready, I could use Woof to produce an ARM Puppy.

However, it's a 'lil bit more problematic - Woof has many executables and binary files. This is totally against any programming convention I'm aware of, but I won't criticize Barry's decisions.

The bottom line is that bootstrapping a new Puppy for another architecture requires four main things:
1) Replace all binaries in Woof with ones native to the new Puppy (well, except those used to build it - they need to match the machine Woof runs on)
2) Build that Puppy from a Puppy that can run its binaries, that's a Woof requirement.
3) All those crappy traditional packages.
4) A kernel.

Once we have all those, we can build some sane Puppy for ARM, x86_64 or any architecture, that has a compiler and everything needed to build the rest of it.

That's what I do with my current puplet, Guy Dog - it is built from Debian packages (I mean, just the base system) and all applications (and even more than that, even stuff like D-Bus and Bash) are built on top of it, automatically.

It shouldn't be that hard to port Puppy, but it's time to cut those ties between Puppy and x86.

pacer106 wrote:I am looking to do some artwork.

oh good

http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/u ... 00x267.png

I think checking out ttylinux might help here... it is based on build scripts and chroot .... libc, gcc, busybox et al can all be very easily built for arm, and the arm stuff is built from within its own toolchain (which you can build to your liking as well), as mentioned would be needed...

I have no knowledge of this sorta stuff really, but even I eventually got a working ARM based toolchain ready to go, inc busybox, gnutils, etc, etc ... I just don't have anything to test it on! (or the inclination to be honest, it's pretty 'barebones'!)

here is the build system: http://www.minimalinux.org/ttylinux/Dow ... p8.tar.bz2