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Puppy 4.31 as wireless gateway
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Tue 04 Feb 2014, 22:22    Post_subject: grub4dos in NTFS  

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
then when it did
not work read that grub4dos stopped supporting NTFS in 2007 due to
changes in XP.

news to me...I have grub4dos on ntfs made by XP SP3

mike


I put grldr in c:\ and added a line to boot.ini c:\grlder="grub4dos"
and copied a modified menu.lst to c:\ (from another computer, with
directory names changed), and when I selected Grub4DOS in the menu
'missing help'. A search on that and grub4dos and XP informed me that grub4dos stopped supporting NTFS (compressed partition) in 2007 because of changes included in the service packs. So what did I do wrong?

I just failed at ad-hoc mode in XP. We can use the XP computer by itself on the windowsill while I try adding Puppy to the netbook with grub4dos (which I hope works in ext2). Would a different grub work better in NTFS? I have not used grub until today.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 07:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
compressed partition

ah sorry did not notice this.

Yes that probably makes a problem...it usually does.

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 13:24    Post_subject: Grub4DOS and NTFS
Sub_title: Making FAT32 partition
 

It was suggested that I repartition and make a FAT32 partition for GRUB.

PQMagic for DOS informs me it cannot be run under Windows.
I prefer not to remove the hard drive to another computer with floppy boot.

AOMEI Partition Assistant Standard (8MB download, free) shrank NTFS 30GB to 5GB NTFS in a DELL Inspiron 2200 that I had partitioned to NTFS and installed MicroXP to for experimenting on. MicroXP installs in 20 min without driver packs. DELL had the video and sound drivers and a choice of two wifi drivers. The 78MB (!!!!) iw2200 worked and wifi even works so I can simply move this drive to the C400 if all else fails, after replacing the 5GB NTFS with FAT32. AOMEI NTFS > FAT32 convertor does not work on system partition.

XP Disk Management (Run, diskmgmt.msc) will partition and format FAT32.
(They also mention HPFS - Mac - but not EXT).

Can I leave NTLDR in C: and put GRLDR and menu.lst in D: and add to
C:\boot.ini the line d:\grldr="Grub4DOS"?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 13:42    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Can I leave NTLDR in C: and put GRLDR and menu.lst in D: and add to
C:\boot.ini the line d:\grldr="Grub4DOS"?

Sounds logical....otherwise you might need
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\grldr="Grub4DOS"

NTFS compression does not save much really....not something I am a fan of...could you do without it?

Nlited XP is pretty neat...I use that and usboot to make a tidy portable install thet works like full XP. Never used driver packs either..I just have the needed drivers to hand for post install.

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 17:08    Post_subject: grub4dos to boot NTFS XP and Wary 5.5
Sub_title: grldr in both C: (ntfs) and E: (FAT32)
 

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
Can I leave NTLDR in C: and put GRLDR and menu.lst in D: and add to
C:\boot.ini the line d:\grldr="Grub4DOS"?

Sounds logical....otherwise you might need
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\grldr="Grub4DOS"
mike


d: is cdrom, e: is sda2 FAT32

The last suggestion was not necessary. I experimented and did some reading:

MicroXP always loads normally, but when I choose Grub4Dos:.

grldr and menu.lst both in c: - 'missing help' (won't work with both files only in NTFS partition)

grldr and menu.lst both in e: - 'Windows could not start because...
hal.dll is missing or corrupt' ?????

I read that grldr must be in the same partition as windows and ntldr, and also that it will not boot things from NTFS, but the first 16 bytes (?) of it run from NTFS and look for other copies, so I tried:

grldr in c: AND in e:, menu.lst in d: - black screen, powers off. (It is a bit hard to follow since I need to hit Fn F8 in time to see on the external monitor - cracked LCD screen shows only 1" strip.)

Fixed the power-off by putting # in front of all lines in the section about booting Windows, because NTLDR takes care of that not GRLDR so maybe there was a conflict.

In a computer with FAT32 and DOS and no WIndows, this section booted it to DOS 7.1 (cSmile (so I relabelled it 'DOS or Windows' on that computer) but there is no DOS on here.

I also commented out the rest except for wary, reboot and halt since I do not have GRUB2 and don't need commandline control.

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.7.2
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Puppy wary 5.5 (sda2/wary55)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /wary55/initrd.gz
kernel /wary55/vmlinuz psubdir=wary55 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
initrd /wary55/initrd.gz

title Puppy wary 5.5 (sda2/wary55) RAM mode noFB\nBoot up Puppy without pupsave
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /wary55/initrd.gz
kernel /wary55/vmlinuz psubdir=wary55 pmedia=atahd
pfix=ram,fsck
initrd /wary55/initrd.gz

#title Pup 412PULP 0.1 (sda9/pulp1)
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /pulp1/initrd.gz
# kernel /pulp1/vmlinuz psubdir=pulp1 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
# initrd /pulp1/initrd.gz

#title Pup 431 (sda1/pup42630)
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /pup42630/initrd.gz
# kernel /pup42630/vmlinuz psubdir=pup42630 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
# initrd /pup42630/initrd.gz

# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up

#title DOS or Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
# errorcheck off
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bootmgr
# chainloader /bootmgr
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /ntldr
# chainloader /ntldr
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /io.sys
# chainloader /io.sys
# errorcheck on

# Boot from Partition Boot Sector

####title Puppy wary 5.5 (sda1:PBS)
#### uuid 52EF-BE95
#### chainloader +1

# additionals

#title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
# find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
# kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt


(Lines starting with pfix or 'without' should be part of preceding line - they auto wrapped here).

Quote:

NTFS compression does not save much really....not something I am a fan of...could you do without it?


The DELL c400 was given to us this way 'working' (except for unusable keyboard and mouse stops working once in a while).

I don't know how to change compression. I prefer to shrink the NTFS and add FAT32 anyway. Wary can now copy its files from FAT32 to EXT2 partition and re-edit menu.lst to look there. (It was a real pain editing menu.lst with notepad - everything run together with little rectangles representing line feeds that needed deleting - I should have run dos2unix -d first).

On the C400 about 1/6 of the drive is MTF files in the middle - I hope AOMEI can handle squashing them into the first 5 or 10GB.

The 2005 DELL inspiron 2200 wireless bcm b43frugal is supported by kernels 2.6.24 and later (not puppy 4 retro).


Quote:


Nlited XP is pretty neat...I use that and usboot to make a tidy portable install thet works like full XP. Never used driver packs either..I just have the needed drivers to hand for post install.


MicroXP is simpler, I think. It came without floppy driver, or FTP or telnet (I added putty and psftp) or WMP (SMplayer is better) or IE (Browzar works) or Outlook - all the virus magnets. Flash will not install normally (I got it on there somehow at a games site and can probably manuallly copy some dll). On most computers wifi does not work with it - a known bug. You need not and must not add antivirus (it deletes essential components) or do updates (not that they work any more). Booted in 20 sec. Uses about 50MB RAM. Can't tell since Ctrl-Alt-Del does not seem to work either. During install it wipes out Windows directory but keeps Programs and registers them. Might be useful for saving a wrecked XP without losing programs or personal files. 2008 version is newer than all our computers.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 17:25    Post_subject:  

hmm interesting..

So some sort of boot arrangement is evolving....a fat32 area makes for a simple booting life anyway and yes windows loses itself easily...has to be pampered.(no hal error)

My nlited XP has no IE, outlook etc either..I don't like viruses also and in doing so no antivirus seems to be necessary.
Wifi is no problem since its standard XP and I clone by copying the winXP folder (profiles are moved to in there for neatness and th ealternative name means it can run alongside another XP install.) Any deletions or overwrites are therefore up to the user.
I usually use firefox and flash is no problem with it and any software/drivers work fine as long as they are not IE dependant in some way.

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 20:00    Post_subject: grub4dos fat32 ext2 and fat-free XPs  

mikeb wrote:
hmm interesting..

So some sort of boot arrangement is evolving....a fat32 area makes for a simple booting life anyway and yes windows loses itself easily...has to be pampered.(no hal error)


Two hours of experiments convinced me that the wary save file has to be in sda2 (fat32) - it is not seen in sda3 even if I move grldr and menu.lst there and touch ATAHD. Along the way (moving it back and forth between FAT32 and EXT2/ it got badly corrupted but I replaced it from flash drive. I will make a larger FAT32 next time.

The SONY (target) has a huge MTF reserved area in the middle of the 30GB and it is unclear whether a partition managing program can move it to shrink it. PQMagic is said to be able. There is also a Minitool Partition Wizard. There is still about 1GB MTF area leftover in my 5 GB NTFS (6 times what it should be for this size partition).

The bc43legacy and ssb drivers for the wifi card identify signals but won't connect and I need to learn ndiswrapper now. I could then use this laptop as wireless gateway but it is 2" deeper.

Buying a bridge (or paying for service) would be less educational.

Quote:

My nlited XP has no IE, outlook etc either..I don't like viruses also and in doing so no antivirus seems to be necessary.
Wifi is no problem since its standard XP and I clone by copying the winXP folder (profiles are moved to in there for neatness and th ealternative name means it can run alongside another XP install.) Any deletions or overwrites are therefore up to the user.
I usually use firefox and flash is no problem with it and any software/drivers work fine as long as they are not IE dependant in some way.
mike


How large is the resulting installation (MicroXP about 200MB). Do you need to validate it? 98Lite required a certificate number then you could copy the result. How do you clone nlited XP?
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 20:26    Post_subject:  

The install comes to just over 400MB , the iso is around 200MB but that does give a normal XP minus unwanted software...I leave in things like webm and other items used by some business software so its not meant to be a total strip down.
Nlite itself has no activation..its free to use basically.
As for the XP the usual validation would apply i suppose...i just happen to have an enterprise edition which does not need that..only the install key.

b43...have you tried the wl broadcom driver...it sometimes suceeds when b43 fails.

The huge MTF.... compression is achived by using the MTF to store small files rather than indexing to a separate data area as would normally happen. So basically that MTF is full of data.

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014, 21:53    Post_subject: Mini-XPs and b43legacy problem in Wary 5.5
Sub_title: Wary does not include wl module
 

mikeb wrote:
The install comes to just over 400MB , the iso is around 200MB but that does give a normal XP minus unwanted software...

As for the XP the usual validation would apply i suppose...i just happen to have an enterprise edition which does not need that..only the install key.



Quote:

Sounds good, if you have the install key.
b43...have you tried the wl broadcom driver...it sometimes suceeds when b43 fails.



Using Wary 5.5 for 'older' hardware (on one of our newest laptops, - 2005), which does not have wl. Link to a pet for wary was broken.
I could try Slacko 5.5 instead.

I had the 1MB of sys and inf files already (1MB of a 40MB download for XP) and followed ndiswrapper instructions (not in this order) - rmmod b43legacy and ssb, blacklist them in blacklist.conf, insmod ndiswrapper, clicked on Windows, pointed it at the inf file (in NTFS directory), and now wlan0 is gone and when I click on Windows nothing happens. ndiswrapper -l lists the broadcom.
Is there supposed to be a new interface? Never used ndiswrapper.

I could try another wifi card new enough to do WPA2.

Quote:

The huge MTF.... compression is achived by using the MTF to store small files rather than indexing to a separate data area as would normally happen. So basically that MTF is full of data.

mike


It may be the right size for a 30GB partition full of files, but I have about 1.5GB of Windows files in a 5GB partition. If it can't be shrunk or moved most of the drive will be wasted as unused NTFS.
Windows is profligate with disk space and memory.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 00:54    Post_subject: SolidPup 5.11 did not work with b43legacy/ssb either  

SolidPup was supposed to have an improved set of b43 drivers but failed worse than Wary 5.5 (which at least detected signals and then could not connect). There is (if the link works) a special 4.3.1 with correct drivers. Slacko 5.5 is supposed to have wl.

To change the mini-PCI card in the DELL inspiron 2200 you first remove hard drive, optical drive, keyboard, and display assembly. (To get at the coin cell battery, which keeps losing the date, you remove also the palm rest, while one of the two memory modules is buried even deeper). I wonder why ndiswrapper did not work.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 08:23    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Is there supposed to be a new interface? Never used ndiswrapper.

Yes I believe so... i used it once about 2 years ago so memory a bit flaky.

I have used wl on puppy 4.12 happily though b43 was ok on lucid...broadcom seems to vary as to what works ... I get the feeling its what you need in this case...perhaps request a fresh source for wary... Its easy to compile but you probably don't want to get into that.

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:31    Post_subject: Broadcom 'b43legacy' works ndiswrapper Turbopup (4.2.0)  

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
Is there supposed to be a new interface? Never used ndiswrapper.

Yes I believe so... i used it once about 2 years ago so memory a bit flaky.


No new interface appeared in Wary 5.5.

Quote:

I have used wl on puppy 4.12 happily though b43 was ok on lucid...broadcom seems to vary as to what works ... I get the feeling its what you need in this case...perhaps request a fresh source for wary... Its easy to compile but you probably don't want to get into that.

Mike


I have not compiled for Puppy yet (maybe tomorrow).

Broken link for wl for 4.3.1 but I found it for 4.2 kernel 2.6.25.16 - a pet complete with modifications to various other files. Ran it, and pupget got stuck and I had to exit and restart X.

So I tried ndiswrapper in Turbopup (a faster smaller 4.2.0) and got a wlan0 which I am online with. Maybe I did something wrong in Wary????

Turbopup is speedy at 1.4GHz 512MB - so this blasted wifi card has done me a favor. Will try iptables in Turbopup after repartitioning to make a larger FAT32 for puppy save files.

The up arrow does not work in rxvt and if used while in Seamonkey it keeps bringing up mtpaint. Odd and annoying.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:05    Post_subject:  

If i use puppy its normally a 4.12 varient.
Wary has that name for a reason perhaps...i do see plenty of posts with wary users with hardware problems.

The wl on turbopup might be worth a try at some point but i guess if something works then don't move a muscle....

mike
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:13    Post_subject: Puppy 4.12 preference  

mikeb wrote:
If i use puppy its normally a 4.12 varient.


Me too (pulp linux), but I did not find a wl pet for it.
Turbopup's broken up arrow is getting to be a real pain. Do you know what file to edit to fix this problem with Xvesa? Xorg would not work here with Turbopup (black screen with mouse, no menu..) tho it did with Wary.

Quote:

Wary has that name for a reason perhaps...i do see plenty of posts with wary users with hardware problems.


I have had minimal problems with plain 4.3.1 and with pulp. I will try both with ndiswrapper.

The wl on turbopup might be worth a try at some point but i guess if something works then don't move a muscle....

mike[/quote]
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8706

PostPosted: Thu 06 Feb 2014, 13:21    Post_subject:  

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=251942#251942
wl driver for 4.12 kernel...

mike
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