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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Hardware
64bit PCs and PAE in Puppy World - Facts versus Myths
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5870
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 23:11    Post_subject:  

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2013/154/Kernel-News

Linus Torvalds wrote:

Quote:
PAE is 'make it barely work'. The whole concept is fundamentally flawed, and anybody who runs a 32-bit kernel with 16GB of RAM doesn't even understand *how* flawed and stupid that is.

Don't do it. Upgrade to 64-bit, or live with the fact that IO performance will suck. The fact that it happened to work better under your particular load with one particular IO size is entirely just 'random noise'.

Yeah, the difference between 'we can cache it' and 'we have to do IO' is huge. With a 32-bit kernel, we do IO much earlier now, just to avoid some really nasty situations. That makes you go from the 'can sit in the cache' to the 'do lots of IO' situation. Tough.

Seriously, you can compile yourself a 64-bit kernel and continue to use your 32-bit user-land. And you can complain to whatever distro you used that it didn't do that in the first place. But we're not going to bother with trying to tune PAE for some particular load. It's just not worth it to .anybody
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 720
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 04:41    Post_subject:  

I'm glad to see some actual facts being fleshed out in this thread. Reading through the past 4 or 5 posts, the conclusion is,32bit PAE vs 32bit Non PAE is barely noticeable. 64bit is better.

The problem to me seems to be not whether Puppy uses PAE or not for modern hardware. It is that puppy isn't developing a mainstream 64bit version.

The reason I would still recommend PAE on modern hardware when using puppy is that almost all the apps / pets / programs are compiled for 32bit, and thus they will work, and your system will use all the memory. Even if it is horribly.

PAE is a perfect solution for the meantime to use on modern hardware, and use all of the puppy stuff we have.

64bit is what Puppy should be aiming to deliver, build on Fatdog and LHP and really make Puppy a modern distro for use on modern hardware.

I'm not a builder / compiler / anything good, just a user so I can't help build anything. But, my opinion, Puppy 6.0 should be 32 and 64bit.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 05:05    Post_subject:  

James C wrote:

Linus Torvalds wrote:

Quote:
...
Seriously, you can compile yourself a 64-bit kernel and continue to use your 32-bit user-land. ....


Ah yes, time for shameless plug for my wiki: http://jamesbond3142.no-ip.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/RunSlackoInFatdog.

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 720
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 08:14    Post_subject:  

jamesbond - nice shameless plug. Most of it goes beyond my skill set.

This kernel solution might be similar to yours? I don't really know, but I thought it was promising when announcer announced it...

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=74884

Would be good to see a puppy built with a kernel like that
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4368
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 12:45    Post_subject:  

Thanks @JamesBond for your post.

Most everyone knows that I have been a user of 64bit FATDOG since forever. And that I have also been a user of LightHouse64 since its beginning. I run both of these ONLY on my 64bit PCs. (I don't bother with running 32bit OS on them except on very rare occasions for testing something someone has observed.)

That being said, JamesBond shows us how to use FATDOG to run a 32bit OS (Slacko is an example), Simultaneously. You dont reboot ... you just start the 32bit OS and you have both systems on your fingertips.

Also, JamesBond and Kirk have also assisted with adding a subsystem (available thru the FATDOG repos) either, VBox and KVM (which I have tested extensively), which also allow one to run multiple simultaneous OSes (32bit or 64bit) within a single FATDOG host system.

The functionality is enormous, and extends a base system's operations for so many additional things we can imagine.

The OSes for 64bit systems are designed to fully take advantage of your hardware and exploit that hardware for user advantage without any existing physical RAM limitations.

This the the primary reason I have and will continue to use plus recommend 64bit OSes on 64bit PCs.

If you have a 64bit PC you will find lots of comfort booting FATDOG or its fuller software complement, LIghtHouse64.

And, if you are a current user of either, the link provided by @Jamesbond is a good one to allow you to experience both the 64bit OS; and a 32bit OS you start as well, simultaneously.

Here to help

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