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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Graphics
How to use mtPaint to make an image from two images?
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2011, 20:05    Post_subject: Re: man pages  
str4y wrote:
jpeps wrote:

Linus Torvalds said:
Quote:
Show me the code.


An interesting survey would be how many users have ever tried "man" anything. I'm guessing very few. Google searches have taken their place.
Yesterday I was trying to figure out window placement options for xli which was in the manuals I had previously deleted.


Yes indeed, I was trained on the old-school mainframes and the "man" command, though it pulled up some dense reading, was a constant go-to. So when I started getting into Puppy, I was distraught to see that the tendency is to just ask Google (or linux.die.net, who probably aren't as evil as Google) for everything, and not file a copy away for off-line usage (I'm very often not on the net.) Tttuuxxx posted a man.pet (which is hard to search for because it's such a small, common word and this forum is so sprawling) which did much toward recreating that old UNIX man page functionality. I'd always meant to work on it further, but scads of other projects cause constant procrastination in that regard..


Lucid includes Barry's pman (linked to "man" ). "man xli" decompresses /usr/share/man/man1/xli.1.gz into /tmp where it reads xli_1.html using Dillo.
"man mtPaint" takes you to http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/, where you can click on documentation. MtPaint is very well documented. Did you know it does animations by viewing layers set apart at small time intervals?

The juxtaposition solution is actually very intuitive for someone who understands the program. Would you need a manual to know that you'd need a bigger canvas to paint another picture alongside the original? Other than that, it's just cut and paste.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4015
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2011, 20:51    Post_subject:  
It was exactly as I expected, except needing to "Copy" to get "Export" enabled.
This puzzled me at first when I went to export what I had just highlighted.

More intuitive would be loading a second image after the first and positioning it,
the canvas auto. sizing after the second image is set in place.
Just expanding the canvas and loading the second image directly is good.
But this being simpler to understand and do, doesn`t mean MtPaint can be
easily made to do it. It may be a real nightmare getting this kind of usability.

It is a shame particularly for MtPaint that the Help is no help at all... ( removed )

What might be good for apps. would be to have it`s local docs, and then if the
local docs can`t be found because of space conscious distro. builders that
insist on removing them, it would show web page docs in the default browser.
These could then be downloaded directly and become the menu`s local docs.
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wjaguar

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2011, 04:22    Post_subject:  
sunburnt wrote:
It was exactly as I expected, except needing to "Copy" to get "Export" enabled.
This puzzled me at first when I went to export what I had just highlighted.

I consider it quite intuitive that export doesn't get enabled unless you have something to export.
I admit that some confusion does arise when people expect mtPaint to operate on "selections" like most everything else does - but mtPaint does not have the very concept, having been designed that way by Mark Tyler, and I myself never do miss them. A selection frame in mtPaint is nothing but a frame, while the clipboard always contains what user explicitly had placed there (this, BTW, is why mtPaint's clipboard is kept separate from the system clipboard, and only connects to it through import/export).
IOW, "selection-less" mode of operation is a feature of mtPaint; in the next version of the handbook, I'll add into section 4 "The Selection Tool" an explanation of that, and of what differences in operation it does cause.

Quote:
More intuitive would be loading a second image after the first and positioning it,the canvas auto. sizing after the second image is set in place.

I intend to implement auto-sizing sometime later, as an option for compositing layers. Maybe it would make sense to provide such an option for pasting as well - but positioning the paste area would be tricky, then, because mtPaint isn't designed to have dynamically resizing canvas, and without that, the outside part of clipboard image won't be visible anyway (just as it isn't now).

Quote:
Just expanding the canvas and loading the second image directly is good.

And mtPaint has "undoable loading" for precisely that reason. You can load an image, copy it to the clipboard, then undo the load operation and proceed to paste the clipboard into the original image.

Quote:
It is a shame particularly for MtPaint that the Help is no help at all... ( removed )
What might be good for apps. would be to have it`s local docs, and then if the local docs can`t be found because of space conscious distro. builders that insist on removing them, it would show web page docs in the default browser.

For mtPaint, it can be done quite easily; just create a file /usr/doc/mtpaint/index.html or /usr/share/doc/mtpaint/index.html containing this line:
Code:

<meta HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" content="0; url=http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html">
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2011, 21:44    Post_subject:  
wjaguar wrote:

For mtPaint, it can be done quite easily; just create a file /usr/doc/mtpaint/index.html or /usr/share/doc/mtpaint/index.html containing this line:
Code:

<meta HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" content="0; url=http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html">


no need...it's already included. In lucid_5.2.5:
/usr/share/mtpaint/mtpaint_handbook-3.31/docs/index.html

They're in older versions as well, accessed with "man mtpaint"
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 9906
Location: Arizona USA
PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2011, 23:00    Post_subject:  
For what it's worth, in Puppy 2.4.5 when I click Menu -> Help there is a listing for mtPaint which links to ///usr/share/doc/mtpaint.htm. When I click it, I get:
Quote:
404 Not Found
No such file or directory.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 9906
Location: Arizona USA
PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2011, 23:16    Post_subject:  
wjaguar wrote:
... I only document the uses for which I myself would have needed instruction, were I not the developer of the thing Smile and obvious things like using menu commands for precisely what their names suggest are, just as obviously, left out.

How can you possibly know what you wouldn't know if you hadn't been the developer? It's a similar problem to guessing what the reader already knows, and also to seeing possible other meanings of what you wrote that you didn't think of when you wrote it. You're a good, clear writer, and you know mtPaint better than anyone else in this forum. You are the best person I can think of for the thankless job of introducing the beginner to mtPaint. Smile
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wjaguar

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2011, 09:36    Post_subject:  
Flash wrote:
How can you possibly know what you wouldn't know if you hadn't been the developer?

Because once upon a time, I was a regular novice user, too. Smile And had to learn first mtPaint 0.95, then 2.20, entirely by myself - and having only the builtin help to refer to, for there has been no handbook yet.

Quote:
You're a good, clear writer, and you know mtPaint better than anyone else in this forum. You are the best person I can think of for the thankless job of introducing the beginner to mtPaint. Smile

Thing is, programmers do not even notice most problems that baffle regular users. Because complex chains of simpler actions is what coding is all about - and stringing together a few operations in some app's GUI to produce a desired result is very much easier in comparison. And likewise, finding one's way through a GUI, however complex, is nothing compared to learning some library's API of average complexity.
And documentation written by programmers reflects this; we tend to document only those things that are nontrivial for us. Smile
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1800
Location: Burghaslach, Germany
PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2011, 09:52    Post_subject: mtpaint
Sub_title: doc		  
Flash wrote:
For what it's worth, in Puppy 2.4.5 when I click Menu -> Help there is a listing for mtPaint which links to ///usr/share/doc/mtpaint.htm. When I click it, I get:
Quote:
404 Not Found
No such file or directory.

To get the man page copy the following code to /usr/share/doc/mtpaint.htm Smile
Code:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html><head><title>Manpage of MTPAINT</title></head><body><h1>MTPAINT</h1>Bitmap graphics editor. Very small, heaps of features.<br>
<br>
Home page: <a href="http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/">http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/</a> <br>
Online manual: <a href="http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html">http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html</a> <br>
<br>
</body></html>

wary513
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Swaphead


Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec 2011, 12:56    Post_subject:  
Hi guys,

I'm trying to make a simple online Xmas Card and this thread was just what I needed.

I was side-tracked by the options to load and save the Clipboard.

I was also stumped by the need to hit Enter in order to commit a Paste operation.

In both cases Google led me to the answer.

I am a simple soul and although I'm struggling with MTPAINT I can't help admiring it, whereas I find the GIMP intimidating and baffling.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 3845
PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec 2011, 23:07    Post_subject:  
I do wish mtpaint had some command line options to access some its features. Topmost would be image conversion. It's really easy to open any image format it supports and save it as another, but if you could specify it at the command line, we could use it for batch processing... amongst others.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4015
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Thu 15 Dec 2011, 00:27    Post_subject:  
Excellent point, I`ve wished CLI input to many apps. over the years...

A lot of my apps. I`ve written had both GUI and CLI interfaces when it was pertinent.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3053
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma
PostPosted: Thu 15 Dec 2011, 01:11    Post_subject:  
Very Happy Hello,
I know i have said it before, but it never hurts to drive your point in with a hammer..
MTPaint is one of, if not the most. underrated programs in all of Linux...
Seems very intuitive to me, and has a depth of capabilities many never explore..
wjaguar.. Dmitry,
You should be commended on your work on, in, and support of, this project...

A parable:
"My cars transmission requires I pull back on the lever to put it in drive, this is not intuitive, I should push it FORWARD to go FORWARD!!"

But yet, you learned to do it, and the auto makers didnt change the cars to match your ideas of how it should be...

Sometimes, intuitive is a personal perspective...
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"Close the "Windows", and open your eyes, to a whole new world"
http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/puppyluvr/
http://theplpd.webs.com/

Nothing but Puppy since 2.15CE...
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 9476
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Thu 15 Dec 2011, 04:33    Post_subject:  
I don't dare say anything because I fail to get what you guys write here
and the program is totally beyond me. But I am know to be confused

Edit
Quote:
An interesting survey would be how many users have ever tried "man" anything


The few times I have made that I had no idea what them wrote.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 2524
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Thu 15 Dec 2011, 20:35    Post_subject:  
The mtpaint manual gives a couple of tips on how to
make an animation by putting images in a folder then
type a command in the terminal.

Be carefule when naming the images for an animation
since gifsicle uses these names for the order of processing
____________________________________________
To open multiple images with a right click
use this script

Code:

#!/bin/sh
 # Check to see if they clicked on the application or sent stuff to mtpaint.
 test -sd "$@"
 if [ "$?" = "0" ]
 then

 # If they just clicked on the icon.
exec mtpaint

else
# if they sent things to mtpaint

for i in "$@"
do
exec mtpaint "$i" &
done

fi
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 2524
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Thu 15 Dec 2011, 20:44    Post_subject:  
Here's a tip.

To resize the clipboard--->
Select a portion of a picture.
Put selection in a numbered clipboard.

mtpaint allows multiple clipboards.

Using Rox-filer go to /root and see the hidden files.


You can open up the clipboard file with mtpaint and do a scaling
of the image. Now save it back to /root under a new name.
but then rename it back so that mtpaint will think it is a
clipboard. ie it must have a name that starts with a period
and has clipboard in it.

Paste this new clipboard in the original picture and voila you have
resized(or rescaled) the clipboard.

Other changes to the clipboard such as a hue change are useful as well.


______________________________________________
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