Need help installing pup on old IBM laptop(solved)

[ckx]

MU:

It is my understanding that Puppy the first time it is started on a system will automatically find and use a swap _partition_ if present, but not a swap _file_.

It says on http://puppylinux.org/wikka/SwapFile

Got a swap partition? ... That won't be enough.
You need to use mkswap before Puppy Linux can automatically recognize it at boot time.

This is followed by instruction on how to get Puppy to recognize the swap partition. This won't work for me because I can't get Puppy to boot from the CD. Are there startup parameters that can be used with Grub or at boottime to make Puppy recognize a Swap partition?

BTW, I created the swap and other partitions using an old version of Mandrake. It lets you split up a Dos partition into several Dos/Linux partitions non-destructively. If you merge or enlarge a partition though it gets wiped.

[Sit Heel Speak]

ckx:

It is my understanding that what mkswap does is "format" the blank new Linux partition, sort of, in other words it puts the special ext2 swap filesystem on the type-82 partition. mkswap needs to be run only once.

I am perfectly well aware that there exist powerful partitioning tools. My own choice would be the vintage-1999 commercial utility System Commander, which can shrink the existing partition and create the new partition without losing the presently-existing installation of Windows 95. But pelokwin does not have such tools. So let's do it with just what MS-DOS and a simple Linux boot floppy provide. Unfortunately, the necessary fdisk steps will wipe out everything on the disk, which is why pelokwin needs to back everything up that's important to him first.

Pelokwin, my strategy is this:

1. Boot the to-be-Puppy'ed computer from a Win9x emergency boot floppy.

2. Issue the command

A:> fdisk

Answer "Y" to the "enable large disk support" question. This tells MS-DOS that the partition we will presently create is to be a vfat (FAT32) one.

Delete the existing partition.
Create one new partition, size 2.75GB.
Set it active.
Exit fdisk.

3. Reboot from the Win9x floppy so the above fdisk step takes effect.

4. Issue the command

A:> fdisk

This time, answer the "enable large disk support" question "N" (no), so that the next partition you create will be (temporarily) of type msdos (FAT16).

Create new partition.
Let it use all the remaining disk space.
Exit fdisk.

5. Reboot from the Win9x floppy so the above fdisk step takes effect.

6. Issue the command

A:> format C: /s

to format the new larger first partition, leaving room for system files.

7. Issue the command

A:> sys

to transfer the system files from the Win9x emergency boot floppy onto the hard disk's new first partition.

8. Issue the command

A:> format D:

to temporarily format the 2nd partition FAT16. This is done just in case subsequent strategy fails.

9. Turn the computer off, boot from the Linux floppy, and issue the commands:

# fdisk /dev/hda (start Linux fdisk on hard disk 1)
t (change type of partition)
2 (which partition to change)
82 (change it to type 82, a Linux swap partition)
w (write the above information to the partition table)

10. Take the Linux floppy out of the drive and shut the computer off.

11. Reboot again from the Linux floppy.

12. Issue the command

# mkswap /dev/hda2

13. Take the Linux floppy out of the drive and shut the computer off.

14. Boot from the LiveCD.

This should get Puppy going on pelokwin's computer. Yours too, ckx, provided that the CD can autoboot (I don't use a CD, so I don't know). If the LiveCD can't autoboot, then pelokwin (and you, ckx) will need to reinstall Windows on the first partition (i.e. on the C: drive) and then boot the LiveCD from Windows Explorer, or else just go get pupwin98.zip and use that.

Can anyone see a fault in this strategy?

Pelokwin, assuming that you don't care about what's presently on the computer, do you think you can follow the above steps?

[toddyjoe]

Guys...we've been missing the obvious.

Right on the front page, www.puppyos.com, the developer of Puppy, Professor Barry Kauler (BarryK) says, "...the PC must have either 128MB RAM or failing that a swap partition."

pelokwin has only 79MB of RAM, and (presumably) no Linux swap partition.

So, either pelokwin must install more RAM in the laptop, or else we must somehow devise a way to create a Linux swap partition on the hard disk.

I always wondered about that 128MB number. Earlier in this thread, I posted the following:

Just a follow-up to my earlier post, Puppy Linux 1.0.8r1 works fine on my Thinkpad 310ED with only 64MB EDO RAM. I tried it tonight and got no errors whatsoever, nor did it run any faster or slower than it does with 128MB of EDO RAM. I tried it both using the Live CD I burned from a downloaded iso file and also with the fake dual-boot setup I have on my hard drive.

My 310ED has no Linux swap partition and in fact only one hard drive partition which houses Windows 98 SE and Puppy Linux. I had no problem booting from the Live CD and also with my make-shift dual-boot off the hard drive with only 64MB EDO RAM installed. I did convert my FAT 16 drive to FAT 32 when I changed from Windows 95 to Windows 98 SE earlier this year but nothing more invasive to the drive. I would be interested to see if a Linux swap partition helps pelokwin when the step was unnecessary on my Thinkpad 310ED.

[toddyjoe]

Oops, double-double post. Sorry...

[toddyjoe]

Sorry for the double post but I forgot to address pelokwin's last post:

I am still getting that d%mm msg about the "case sensative letters" so next I try to boot from CD and this is what I get
Error:PCI UHCI/OHCI/EHCI USB host controller not found
ASPIDISK.SYS IS NOT INSTALLED IT THEN LETS ME GO ON I then go through the regular stuff till Puppy cannot find a suitable partition for your personal data file if you wantto use a USB drive for this type type sda1 then enter else just press to run puppy totally in ramdisk in the latter case no personal will be saved the USB flash or hard drive must have a MSDOS or VFAT partition to make the USB drive the defult choice you need to remaster isolinux.cfg with PHOME=sda1
The next "bad news" msg. is ramdisk to small no place for usr.crm.fs to mount There is more stuff but it runs through too fast. now after all that puppy asks me what kind of mouse, keybord and screen I have it is the screen part that my life w/ puppy ends puppy asks me to choose a X server to run puppy graphics mode the two choises are XVESA or XORG and no matter what I pick after the wizards are done the comp. just stops
this is the specs for my 380ed Think Pad

pelokwin, the part about the case-sensitive letters means your GRUB line just is not typed out in the correct format and syntax. I had this problem when I was setting mine up. It was simply a matter of playing around with changing the way you have it typed (capitilzation of folder names, capitilization of file names, spacing, number of hyphens, etc.) until it works. Can you cut and paste your GRUB line here EXACTLY as you have it typed out (with particular attention to spacing, capitalization, hyphens, etc.)?

As far as your boot-up with the CD, much of that sounds the same as my boot-up when I use the Live CD. I always get the "cannot find a suitable partition for your personal data file" error when I use the Live CD because I do not have a re-writable CD drive that allows Linux to put the "pup001" file on the CD it is booting from. The USB error could be a failure of Linux to recognize your USB setup so that does not concern me too much (I get similar errors with my PCMCIA cards). The part about the "ramdisk to small no place for usr.crm.fs to mount" is interesting though. While my 310ED boots fine with 64MB of EDO RAM, perhaps your computer's odd 79MB of RAM is not as accepting to Puppy? It is also odd that your Puppy Live CD nonetheless continues to go all the way through past the XVESA/XORG selection screen before the computer "just stops." Does the computer lock up, crash into chaos or just turn off at that point?

[Sit Heel Speak]

toddyjoe:

Yes, I noticed that you had success with the same machine and only 64MB of RAM. But, I was going by what BarryK says. By scrubbing pelokwin's machine to bare metal, my idea is that we have a good chance to see if there is something else preventing him from success, for example a failing hard drive, failing CD drive, memory timing issue, or non-standard video chipset. That "79MB of memory" bothers me, too. Didn't original Pentium MMX's require that memory be installed in pairs? Or does this requirement not hold, in notebook Pentiums?

[Sit Heel Speak]

pelokwin:

I still want to see your config.sys, before you take further steps. It is possible that a simple change here, may be the golden key.

[toddyjoe]

Yes, I noticed that you had success with the same machine and only 64MB of RAM. But, I was going by what BarryK says. By scrubbing pelokwin's machine to bare metal, my idea is that we have a good chance to see if there is something else preventing him from success, for example a failing hard drive, failing CD drive, memory timing issue, or non-standard video chipset. That "79MB of memory" bothers me, too. Didn't original Pentium MMX's require that memory be installed in pairs? Or does this requirement not hold, in notebook Pentiums?

My 310ED originally had a Pentium 133 MHz MMX and one 16MB RAM module with slots for two modules. While it does not require memory modules in pairs, you have to use one particular slot if you are only using one memory module. One thing I just noticed above though:

RAM 79MB
RAM type 64-bit EDO SO-DIMM

I assume the "64-bit" comment means 64MB. Earlier in this thread, pelokwin identified his computer as a Thinkpad 385D, which comes with a Pentium 150 MHz processor (not a MMX version) and 16MB RAM stock according to a Wiki posted earlier. According to the hardware manual I just found online for his 385D, there is only one RAM module slot and it has a maximum RAM of 48MB. In other words, his 64MB module is beyond the computer's specifications and the Pentium 166 MHz MMX may be as well. While some of these Thinkpads can go above the maximum specs (my 310ED has a maximum of 64MB EDO but runs fine with 128MB), it concerns me that his computer is reading 64MB incorrectly as 79MB. Perhaps he has a bad memory module or is simply pushing the memory too far above maximum specs for the 385D?

[Sit Heel Speak]

"64-bit" means it transfers data 8 bytes at a time in parallel, with each byte being 8 bits in size, in other words there is no 9th, "parity" bit for error-checking. It's "non-parity Extended Data Out" memory. Parity checking memory is "72-bit."

79MB is a strange number, for sure. It could be that it's actually far larger--perhaps a 96MB or 128MB stick, but the BIOS (or bridge chipset) can address only 79MB. Or, it could be that pelokwin's BIOS has to be set up to specifically use EDO memory, and/or non-parity (64-bit) memory, and therefore is misreading it.

If pelokwin is attempting to use more memory than the computer was designed for, or not the same type as it requires, or if the computer can accept this type but the BIOS is not set correctly for it, then memory access will be unreliable and our efforts are futile.

How about it, pelokwin? Is it the original memory that was in the computer new?

If you boot Windows and run MSINFO32, what does it show for memory?

ckx, how are you coming along?

[toddyjoe]

"64-bit" means it transfers data 8 bytes at a time in parallel, with each byte being 8 bits in size, in other words there is no 9th, "parity" bit for error-checking. It's "non-parity Extended Data Out" memory. Parity checking memory is "72-bit."

Good catch. I assumed it was a typographical error and "64-bit" was supposed to be "64MB." My bad.

My 310ED made during the same production time frame (1997) only accepts EDO RAM and will not even boot with SDRAM, even the PC66 or PC100 types. Recalling that pelokwin was getting some image checksum errors in earlier posts, I am wondering if the "79MB" may be indicative that the computer has been upgraded with more RAM memory than it can handle or that the existing memory module is damaged. The IBM hardware manual for the 385D says the maximum RAM is 48MB, but I saw in an earlier post in this thread that pelokwin found a reference that 80MB is the maximum. In either event, a "79MB" reading does not seem right if all is functioning correctly. Of course, I am speculating at this point which does not help anybody, including pelokwin.

[pelokwin]

Ok I am going to try to answer all the questions I saw in the post if I miss one please tell me
Toddyjoe the TP I have is a 380ed [sorry for the slip up]
my TP is a hand me down when it was given to me I said hey here is a chance to try all the things I can't do on my desktop[my wife gave me a don't mess with our computer talking to when we bought it] anyway I have the laptop, powercord, and.....thats it SHS saidstill want to see your config.sys, before you take further steps. It is possible that a simple change here, may be the golden key. so here it isREM [Start of additions for Linux]
[menu]
menuitem=win, Windows
menuitem=linux, Puppy Linux ver. 1.0.8r1
menudefault=win, 15

[linux]

[win]
REM[End of additions for linux]
DOS=HIGH,UMB
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe /W
device=C:\WINDOWS\himem.sys
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe NOEMS x=D000-D7FF

rem SystemSoft CardWorks(TM) PCMCIA drivers:
device=C:\CARDWORK\CARDXTND.SYS
devicehigh=C:\CARDWORK\SSCIRRUS.EXE
devicehigh=C:\CARDWORK\SSCBTI.SYS
devicehigh=C:\CARDWORK\CS.SYS /POLL:1
device=C:\CARDWORK\CSALLOC.EXE
devicehigh=C:\CARDWORK\ATADRV.EXE
devicehigh=C:\CARDWORK\CARDID.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DRVSPACE.SYS /MOVE

I tryed to run MSINFO32 but the run could not find it???
To SHS I have no problem taking the laptop to a naked state all that I need is the what, where, and how
I am going to look over the last post to see if I missed some "Q's"
Pelokwin

[peppyy]

[quote="pelokwin"]
First I tried booting puppy1.0.8r.1 mozilla with wakepup11c with pup001 on the hard drive and the BIOS set to start with the floppy drive...then to the H.D. Then CD-ROM I choose to boot puppy from internal CD-rom. The next msg. Is

[pelokwin]

to peppyy that post came befor I re downed the iso.& re burnt it. i got it to boot from a CD but now I have new problems

SitHeelSpeak's "Q" from a post
1. Can you install more RAM in it, to bring the total up to 128MB? no
2. Is it an option, to sacrifice its existing Windows 95 installation, in other words wipe the hard disk clean and start from a blank hard disk? yes
3. Are you able to network this Thinkpad to your other machine? no
4. What is currently on the hard disk? Windows 95? Important data? Can you back all that matters to you on the hard disk up, to CD-ROM or another medium, or else transfer it over to the other machine via a network?Just the win95.. like I said the TP is a hand me down so if it blows up well I would not be happy but no loss
5. Does booting from a Windows 95 --or better, if you can get one, a Windows 98-- emergency boot floppy, give you the ability to directory the LiveCD from a DOS prompt?Not sure if I can find one but getting the pup liveCD is not a problem, keeping it going is
6. If we can choose such a single-floppy Linux for you, can you download it, extract it, rawrite it to a floppy, boot the floppy, and enter commands at its # prompt exactly as we prescribe, with no typing mistakes?

yes...typing mistakes? well I can try real hard
7. Please do the following command in a DOS window:

C:>type c:\config.sys>c:\diagnose.txt

and copy c:\diagnose.txt onto a floppy, take it over to the computer you are surfing to here with, open diagnose.txt in Notepad, highlight all its text, and paste it into the reply window. tryed it and nothing happend....oh yea when I get a promp in ms-dos it starts C:\WINDOWS> make a diffrence?If putting more RAM in is not an option, and if a Linux swap partition cannot be created for one reason or another, then we must talk pelokwin step-by-step through the process of installing grub.exe and Puppy 2 alpha, which has a RAM requirement (if I read the news announcement correctly) of only 32MB. willing to try it
Pelokwin

[Sit Heel Speak]

Hmmmm...a 385D. According to

http://www.archmemory.com/index.asp?Pag ... gory=24802

that machine will indeed take 80MB of RAM. 16 by default, and then presumably someone added 64MB as an upgrade. The "79MB free" figure perhaps excludes the DOS low and high memory, or else the video card is using a megabyte, or else ROM for video and sound card are shadowing in memory.

Let's review the facts.

1. It boots Windows 95 just fine. The CD-ROM is readable.
2. Toddyjoe is running Puppy 1.0.8 with 64MB of RAM without problems.

So, let's not get drastic. I've changed my mind. Let's not blow away a good, working partition. Instead let's try to get grub.exe to load Puppy.

Except, we won't try to boot off the CD-ROM; because, at

http://hallx049.oit.umn.edu/linux/laptops/tp-385ed/

there is a report that a Red Hat Linux user could not get the 385D (or 385ED, it isn't clear which) to boot Red Hat Linux from CD-ROM.

And so, I speculate that the error messages concerning rm_size are owing to some design defect of the 385D/ED and not this particular machine--a defect which prevents program execution control being passed to the CD. Possibly this was originally a corporate machine and it was deliberately designed not to allow this.

And so, pelokwin, what I suggest we do is load grub (correctly!) onto your hard disk, and try to get grub to load Puppy from the files which we've copied onto your hard disk.

The first thing we need to do is get vmlinuz, image.gz, usr_cram.fs, isolinux.cfg, and pupxide onto the root directory of the hard disk. I can think of three ways.

1. Open two instances of Windows Explorer, change one of them to the CD-ROM and the other to the C: drive subdirectory C:\, and Ctrl-drag'n'drop the files from the CD-ROM to C:\.

Try that, pelokwin.

If for some reason it doesn't work --perhaps the CD is in a filesystem that Win 95 can't see, then your next move will be to

2. Go to www.ISOBuster.com, download ISO buster, use it to unpack the Puppy .iso files on your wife's machine, and burn the files listed above plus a subdirectory containing grub.exe, menu.lst and so forth onto a blank CD. Then take that CD over to your Thinkpad and copy the files onto it from that CD. Keep grub.exe and its companion files in a subdirectory C:\bootgrub.

...if that doesn't work...

3. Get a Windows 98 emergency boot floppy, and boot from it, and from its A:> prompt copy the files from the CD to the hard drive. Unfortunately Windows 95's emergency boot floppy does not, I'm told, support CD-ROM drives. I'm told a Windows 98 emergency boot disk can be downloaded at http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm.

Report back your progress, and tell me where grub.exe and menu.lst are.

You should be able to succeed.

[Sit Heel Speak]

Oh yes, and under the config.sys [linux] menu line you are going to need the lines

dos=high,umb
device=C:\WINDOWS\himem.sys /testmem:off /v
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe NOEMS x=D000-D7FF
device=c:\windows\ifshlp.sys

in order to run grub.exe.

Let me know what you've done. I'll check here every few hours during 9-midnight Seattle time.

[ckx]

ckx:

It is my understanding that what mkswap does is "format" the blank new Linux partition, sort of, in other words it puts the special ext2 swap filesystem on the type-82 partition. mkswap needs to be run only once.

I repartitioned my harddisk, changed the swap partition to 192Mb. I still can't boot 1.08 but I can boot 1.06. Success! Kinda ....

Because I was using grub to dual boot DSL and Win98 and I forgot to "fdisk /mbr" to remove the dual boot from my hard disk before trashing the DSL partition. No problem if I could boot from a floppy but ... no floppy drive. No usb-ports either. Gonna have to dig up a bootable cd -- bootable into dos that is. I've found instructions for resetting the MBR from Linux but that sounds pretty risky. Have to see tomorrow,

[Sit Heel Speak]

ckx:

I've never touched my mbr. So, I don't have experience with what you're talking about.

I run grub from autoexec.bat when I choose a "Puppy" option, displayed by my Win98SE c:\config.sys.

Whether to boot Win98SE or Puppy is chosen from just menu options when Windows boots (or, I should say, attempts to boot, until I choose the Puppy menu option, thereby deflecting the Microsoft borg from its intended course); the option of whether to boot to Puppy is displayed by Windows' own config.sys.

I understand that grub.exe can also be loaded as a device= option by config.sys but I have not tried this. Grub.exe runs as an executable under DOS provided you have your high memory managed (dos=,device=himem.sys,device=emm386,device=ifshlp.sys) as given in my post to pelokwin, above.

Perhaps I am having an easy time of using grub because I am storing Puppy only on FAT16 (USB flash key) or FAT32 (same hard disk partition as Windows 98SE) partitions. I have no experience in trying to start Puppy residing on an ext2 or ext3 partition using grub, so do not know in what particulars it differs.

So my own "dual boot" (quintuple boot, actually, I'm experimenting with four varieties of Puppy) doesn't depend on any special boot-time partition management software and I don't use (at least, I don't think I do) grldr.

Puppy 1.0.8 defaults to a 256MB pup100 or pup001 file, whereas earlier versions used only 128MB. However toddyjoe reports it runs fine on his computer with only 64MB of RAM and no swap. If the sum of your RAM plus your swap partition is under 256MB, maybe 1.0.8 will take a long time to load.

What trouble is 1.0.8 giving you?

[toddyjoe]

ckx, I cannot really offer you any help with the partition. Like Sit Heel Speak, I am doing my dual-booting (Win 98 SE and Puppy 1.0.8r1) off of one hard drive with GRUB and a few mods to the "config.sys" and "Autoexec.bat" files. My 1.6Gb hard drive has a single FAT32 partition for Windows and Puppy with no extra partitioning. The hard drive for my 310ED originally was FAT16 with Windows 95 but I converted to FAT32 using the program within Windows when I made the conversion to Windows 98 SE.

pelokwin, I think Sit Heel Speak has the right idea here with essentially restarting with a clean slate. Like you, I am kind of getting lost with the questions, answers and information being exchanged (but it must feel good to know you have a good resource for lots of help here!). Rather than me offering interrupting comments that might be at odds with other posters, I am going to watch how this new exchange between you and Sit Heel Speak pans out and only comment if I see something glaringly problematic. Maybe we can all get to the bottom of this that way and create a much less confusing thread.

[Sit Heel Speak]

pelokwin:

pelokwin, I think Sit Heel Speak has the right idea here with essentially restarting with a clean slate.

But let's try doing it the gentle way first, leaving the existing partition intact. I know that you already have grub.exe *somewhere*, either on floppy or on the LiveCD or on disk. All you have to do is get the basic Puppy files vmlinuz, image.gz, usr_cram.fs, pupxide, and isolinux.cfg onto the C:\ directory of your hard disk. Once you accomplish that, then it is simply a matter of figuring out what to put in grub.exe's menu.lst config file, and it will be easy to set you up to boot in the identical manner as toddyjoe and I do.

PS if you are at a C:\WINDOWS> prompt, simply type

cd \ {enter}

and you will be back at a C:\> prompt.

[pelokwin]

Sit heel speak:
Ok I have a folder in the C: named Puppy in that I have :
image--- GZ file
isolinux.bin---bin file
usr_cram.fs---fs file
vmliuz--------file
and a folder named bootgrub with:
grub
Menu.lst
Now first off I never saw pupxide , the only things left on the iso are BOOT.CAT and boot.msg
the way I feel is I should go step by step....so what is the next one and what do I do about pupxide?
Pelokwin