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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Ideas of my efforts to centralize puppy? dumb idea?
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Saturn

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug 2011, 22:11    Post subject:  Ideas of my efforts to centralize puppy? dumb idea?  

(***Warning!!! Extremely long ,thoughtful and drawn out post... DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF READING IN FULL!!
NOT FOR THE WARY EYED!!! ****)

Hello all,
I forgot to mention in my last thread,that my recent purchase, puppylinux-online.net is an experiment to see if I can get any organization to the community
While I am prepared for the necessary "flame-wars" and "put down's" that things like this often cause in a thread , in the community,

I was just wanting to some Help as in some collective, peaceful and HOPEFULLY... some "constructive" thought about how to do this

And how much a Gigantic effort it may take to accomplish
(I need an approximate total file size of all the collective "Recent" and Up - to - Date" packages that are to be included in the project, and opinions and feed back, such as... on the feasibility , viability of th is specific venture)

rather lengthy description of plan below: ->


I was thinking of mixing three previously mentioned efforts, one which is the official one, the wiki, at the offical puppy linux site ran by crusty lobster and raffy, and seems to be going well, I think, but lacks certain features I would like to be shown present
and two others, one being one I devised, PPMo, but carried out and coded by the quite talented, Noryb009 that I met last spring on the #puppy-linux Internet relay chat channel on FreeNode

and SInce my time has been quite limited , as I mentioned on the other thread, I had him code, it and test run it on my brainwavedesigncentral.net (hostmonster) account
it was supposed to do these three things: ,

1: improve the organization of the said puppy packages on brainwave, by version number and application category, Instead of either un-ordered list, various folders, or direct links

2: allow contributors to easily upload their work('s) to my mirror without the hassle of sending me mail and having me manually add it, as was the common practice was (and is still in effect, today, for both mirrors)

3: manage the amount of traffic to and from brainwave to a point where the account was no longer throttled by establishing a "QUE" like system where people would take a ticket , and stand in line, after logging in...

Which was never established, as you would just log-in and freely download afterwards , regardless of load, but that was the general idea,

Similar sites that experience heavy download volume that offer game demo downloads for windows, like some "game-spy"( an online match maker for windows) affiliates, would usually offer you a paltry 100-200kbps connection for the demo which would average from eighty megabytes to about some where to about 800-2GB for the quake and unreal tournament FPS demo's at the time
and having said that, if you wanted the fastest speed possible from their site you would have to pay a "subscription - fee" for the chance to not to have wait and be in "QUE" for the download and have unrestricted bandwidth, according to thats specific server's capacity..

Just an example,
But, !!!!!
IN NO WAY DO I MEAN OR IMPLY, THAT I WILL IMPLEMENT SUCH A SCHEME FOR THE MIRRORS OF WHICH I CURRENTLY OPERATE,

Which will continue to be gestures and offerings of my good will to the community, un gratis , pro bono , and Free as in beer!


Now to get back on the subject matter, after that rather lengthy example,

The third mention I was going to throw into the mix that I will put into the dog bowl, is the Puppy section of "hunch.com" a little known user rating a review site from some products
I have not checked them out beyond the puppy linux pages that they have setup but It's their method of showcasing a certain software or other other product( if they have any, memory is not clear here)

That I find highly desirable for puppy, with it being quite similar to a review you would see on amazon or new egg, when shopping for PC Parts

basically in short, you would an extensive and detailed list of it capabilities and functions, then having the end users review it, giving it a rating rather it be stars, thumbs up or such and then comment about their current or past experience of using that certain piece of software, noting any issues they have had, what-so-ever


Now to end this post's I have asked around in several various Tech circles on the net, webhosting forums and other places on how to accomplish this as I had some idea's on how to start, like maybe have an Content management system and each puplet with it's respective packages that made it stand out, have it's own blog, or wiki on\in the CMS it self with the rest being centered around gathering news , and various other informations, including Tutorials and what not, all in one centralized "one stop" location for every one's practical use

While I think this will benefit the community as a whole, some of you beg to differ, noting that it will only "further fragment" the community , while others say that the chaos that puppy thrives in currently, is simply how the puppy community functions and any such efforts by me and anyone else before and\or after me ( if I do or do not ,indeed decide this is a viable avenue , with the communities feedback, comments and suggestions of course)
and such an effort would only stifle , if not oppress the freedom of free thought and creativity of the community

Regardless of your perspective, I am "impartial" and will be all ears, about what should be done about this fragmentation issue that has been plaguing puppy for so long,

But perhaps this is what sets puppy aside from the rest of the pack, named linux.... everyone is free to remix and \or modify puppy like a true GNU linux, without the fear of being hassled or haggled by the current or former project's hierarchy, like some of the more well known distributions out there, eliminating the need to "Fork" puppy


Anyways

This post is getting too long... and I fear eyestrain for the many people that may be reading this

So,
I await the communities (YOUR) feed-back

Any suggestions, comments or constructive notions or thoughts are highly welcome!

Thanks,
Saturn
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Dewbie

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 1783

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2011, 00:52    Post subject:  

Hello Saturn:

First, I want to thank you for continuing to host Wolf Pup's .pets.
The ones I've tried so far work quite well with Puppy Linux 4.x series.

As a first step toward centralization, you might want to list your site here:
http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html

I don't know if complete centralization will ever be possible.
However, if all links, mirrors, etc., could be found through a small number of reference sites, that would be a great start.
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Saturn

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2011, 07:07    Post subject: Update  

Thanks, I think I will take a note from smokey01's Immense technical prowess and use pritlog as well.. it's really FAAAAASSSSTTTTT!!!
considering my time restraints I will just be hosting files as It seems smokey has done quite a good job of hunting for all those links and I really don't want to fragment the community futher plus archiving all that stuff on to one single or multiple servers that I will rent from some place Is going to cost a me an expense that I will be never be able to afford because all that info IS ALOT!
It would be nice to have some centralization like in Arch , Fedora Or Debian perhaps, But I have settled that this forum and smokey's links is sufficent and does the job well enough already,
After All, I am not made out of money
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4235
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2011, 12:06    Post subject: There is nothing wrong with a "centered" approach  

Your offer to the community and the things you help with are good and necessary things we enjoy here in Puppyland.

A center approach doesn't have to disrupt or fragment the community. I think if approached correctly and with the right amount of resource, what you propose, could, in fact, work to the benefit of all Puppyites.

As I remember, though, there was a Canadian system which made a start in this directions several years ago, then disappeared.

@Smokey01 has been offering and helping in the community for awhile now. Without some of what he offers much of what has occurred would have been faced with insurmountable obstacles.

But, today, there may be a better atmosphere for your idea, though novel, to florish.

Let me ask the OP a question. What can we do to help you in addition to what you ask in the opening post?

Here to help

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2011, 20:34    Post subject: resource/repository  

How about this idea:

"redundant storage grid"

installation guide

bash upload script.

(I have posted this earlier at Barry's blog.)

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2123
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep 2011, 08:56    Post subject:  

Saturn, thanks for your generosity.

Some ideas: does your site supports rsync? If yes, most of the public sites (ibiblio for example) supports mirroring with rsync. Then you can hold a permanent and updated copies of Puppy and puplets - alternative sites when the main ones are slow or down. Even if it doesn't do rsync, one can still write a simple wget scripts to automatically mirror other puppy sites.

For example, puppeee.com - the site that holds puppeee and fluppy, once a very popular puplet with over 130 pages in the thread, is now down - and I don't know what happens with all the hard work of jemimah and others Shocked

But if you're thinking beyond just providing mirrors ... I'll leave that to others to discuss Twisted Evil

cheers!

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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep 2011, 13:14    Post subject: Re: Ideas of my efforts to centralize puppy? dumb idea?  

Saturn wrote:

I was just wanting to some Help as in some collective, peaceful and HOPEFULLY... some "constructive" thought about how to do this


How about this as a "constructive" thought:

BitTorrent allows files to be spread around in various places and only the "magic cookies" to be needed for finding the actual bytes of the files. This idea of not having to keep all the bytes on one server to make it work strikes me as a good way to make the system more robust. It means that servers can come and go without messing things up.

When someone wants to publish a new package and have other see it, there really needs to be a multiple step process. The first step is for the programmer to place it on a server (perhaps yours) This is the obvious part.

The person publishing the package should publish with it, a complete description of all the libraries that it needs to run and the kernel version etc. This process should be automated. Basically this should be a very conservative thing that says that if your machine is exactly like the publishers, we are sure it will run.

Next step involves some people in the role of victim or volunteer. When people download the PET or SFS, they can give it a try and then come back and say whether it worked right out the box, with some adjustment or not at all. The "with some adjustment" case is the very important one. I will explain it with an example: The program "Foo" that is intended for Puppy-431 will only work on Puppy-525 if you install "Bar.lib" from "Zippy.pet". From then on, the users of puppy-525 can be automatically given the "Bar.lib" when they want "Foo"

The idea here is to make it easy for packages published for one version of puppy to move to others. Yes, I know that this will involve a lot of work to do. Obviously because I am extremely lazy, I am not signing up to do any of it. I only publish this idea in hopes that a person who is less lazy than me finds it useful.
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faifpuhp


Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep 2011, 22:53    Post subject:  

I'd like to see it more de-centralized, but if you want to catalog and mirror everything I'm not going to try to argue that you shouldn't.

Just don't sell all our personal data to 3rd parties, Ok? Oh wait, that's not you, that's Google. Ok, then...

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