A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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borgbucolic
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my bad

#46 Post by borgbucolic »

nooby wrote:We maybe have two threads about it already? :)
:oops: my bad. Thanks for the nice search links though.

onyakev
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Raspberry Pi

#47 Post by onyakev »

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

"An ARM Linux Box"

http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=43& ... ostid-3583

Talking about running Puppy (or not) on above Forum

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James C
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Re: Raspberry Pi

#48 Post by James C »

onyakev wrote:http://www.raspberrypi.org/

"An ARM Linux Box"

http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=43& ... ostid-3583

Talking about running Puppy (or not) on above Forum
Let's just say that there isn't much interest in porting Puppy to ARM......I.agree with the earlier post,serious work can't really be done on a smartphone or tablet and it will be quite a while before that may change so no need to chase a fad.

nooby
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#49 Post by nooby »

I know nothing so I am kind of lost :)
But as many others have realized it is extremely time consuming and headache to spend years on coding all those needed changes to make a Puppy on ARM and then them have already moved on to better CPU still a variant of ARM but not compatible with the old version we have.

So the better approach has to be to accept that the commercial "bodies" spend money on Devs to make custom made versions for each company and then the way we could go is to support those that "root" them and that way get something that is not Puppy but a usable product that move with the target so them are always just a few weeks or month delayed having a rooted version ROM to load.

Am I wrong? :)
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

raffy
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Re: ARM Puppy

#50 Post by raffy »

James C wrote:Let's just say that there isn't much interest in porting Puppy to ARM......I.agree with the earlier post,serious work can't really be done on a smartphone or tablet and it will be quite a while before that may change so no need to chase a fad.
Plus, x86 is moving to tablets, see for example the AMD Fusion processors.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

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Aitch
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#51 Post by Aitch »

The thing about tablets/aPads is that you need a magnifier to read them!

Anyone wanna buy a Dell Server with SCSI drives - 1300 watts room warmer, ready for the winter? free earplugs :wink:

Growing old while tech gets younger, is disappointingly frustrating

Aitch :)

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technosaurus
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#52 Post by technosaurus »

Aitch wrote:The thing about tablets/aPads is that you need a magnifier to read them!

Anyone wanna buy a Dell Server with SCSI drives - 1300 watts room warmer, ready for the winter? free earplugs :wink:

Growing old while tech gets younger, is disappointingly frustrating

Aitch :)
the interface designs (touch) only work if you are a 2yr old supergenius or just have freakishly small hands
(based on optimal finger size and basic complexity)
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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puppyiso
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#53 Post by puppyiso »

Nooby, you got what I mean. And apology accepted :wink:

raffy, you are right. I have heard of GIGA byte's windows tablet.

The only problem is the price. I can find some windows based tablets here in China but close to 4000 yuan. Regular PC is just 2 to 3000 yuan.

ARM based cost only 7 to 800 yuan.

Folks, maybe I was overeacting to the flood of ARM based or A6 chip based tablets.

If resonably priced x86 compatible tablet is available, all problems would be gone.

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puppyiso
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#54 Post by puppyiso »

double post

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Flash858
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PC's are not going anywhere...

#55 Post by Flash858 »

I understand the concern, but:

Radio was supposed to kill newspapers.
TV was supposed to kill radio AND movie theaters.
The internet was supposed to kill everything.

Tablets are for media consumption, not content creation.

Even email is a PITA on a smart phone or tablet compared to on a proper computer.

I don't think computers are going anywhere.

nooby
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Re: PC's are not going anywhere...

#56 Post by nooby »

Flash858 wrote:...
Even email is a PITA on a smart phone or tablet compared to on a proper computer.

I don't think computers are going anywhere.
Very good argument it sure is. I have tested now some three different
Android and looked on neighbor and workmates I phone something
and I also have a Nokia smartphone. Small keyboards or one need
to use Swype or some other fancy thing to write on them.

But still I do think we should be concerned due to price and availability
will be scarce on Desktops or Laptops?

The makers of them sell too few so them tend to concentrate on
volume and Game is volume so the desktops left are very power
consuming heavy things with water cooling and several fans and noisy
expensive things that I fail to find economical other than second hand.

Okay so Laptops would still have a niche for cheap usable computers.
But I am pessimistic the reports here in Sweden say them fail to sell
enough to make it go around.

So it is not easy to know what the future will bring.

My personal wish is a smartphone that is smart enough to be a real
computer in that one can connect a usb hub and through that one
connect any external thing one need. Mouse, Keyboard, External HDD drive, DVD rom burner, and it should have HDMI out to a decent screen.

That way one can use it as any other phone but when on are at home
and at work one can connect it to the external things and use it as any desktop one have. ARM is ideal for such smart phone.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

theblackpig
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A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux

#57 Post by theblackpig »

I can remember when debit/cash cards came out 30 odd years ago all the pundits predicted that cash would disappear ! I think the same may well apply to PC's

jpeps
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#58 Post by jpeps »

It really comes down to what you can do with it. The rest is simply marketing gimmicks. For example, a real pianist is happy with a quality piano that hasn't changed much in 100 years...while non-musicians will go for 500 digitized sounds.

With an OS like puppy, I can do everything I want on an old laptop at blazing speeds. The OS doesn't control me, and the apps don't send out my personal info for marketing. I now get ads even on my kindle reader (the simple $75 e-ink one). Ads on your iphone, ads on your ipod, ads on your ipad. Are you ready for 3 minute ads for every 10 minutes internet browsing? Fond of blinking banner ads? It's the future.

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saintless
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#59 Post by saintless »

I will prefer to use an old PC if I have an OS which works fast, instead of buying a new one with another OS for it. Puppy linux is ready to bring back to live most of the old hardware. This will keep puppy alive for many years forward.
Many people here have the will and skills to ensure puppy linux future.

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Sky Aisling
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A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux

#60 Post by Sky Aisling »

puppyiso writes:
A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Hi, I feel like I have to jump in here with this reminder about the changing nature of the internet in addition to the form of the computer we hold in our hands or the OS that runs it.

Soon, very soon, like in the next few weeks, The Senate's PROTECT IP Act and House's Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) bill will be voted on in the USA.
Take a careful look at what this bill could mean to this forum and users of this forum.

Ars Technica Writes:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... merges.ars
The Senate's PROTECT IP Act and the House's Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) are so noxious that even the Business Software Alliance has serious reservations, and SOPA's main backer had to take to the virtual pages of National Review today to quell a growing revolt among his conservative colleagues about "regulating the Internet." Whatever you think of the legislation, it unquestionably represents a sea change in the US approach to the Internet, one which explicitly contemplates widespread website blocking and search engine de-listing ...
Like some other members of this forum, I collect old laptops and fix them up with Puppies and give them out to people who can't afford any form of computer device. These people mostly want to simply email friends and relatives and do some simple surfing of the web.

gcmartin's post back in August catches my attention:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 898#555898

My experience in IT goes back to the 60's. I've watched and participated in the mind-boggling development of computer devices and systems. And, I've watched the general public struggle with all the technical twists and turns that it takes to get a PC up and workable. Yes, a certain OS manufacturer has made this journey unacceptably difficult. Praise to the open source community for rising to the the challenge of providing an alternative, albeit still technical, solution. The general public chooses convenience and ease of use over anything else when it comes to things technical. That's what gcmartin saw in his friend and wisely applied a successful, workable solution. We can't loose site of the reason that most users want a 'computer'. The average user wants access to helpful, interesting information from the net. Or in the case of a certain President of the USA, he found and used his computer as incredible fund raising tool to get elected. And, recently, in the case of the people of the middle east, they found and used their machines as incredible social organizing tools. But, I digress, the average consumer doesn't buy the machine to learn mind numbing technical skills. They want easy access to information and communication.


Here is further information on SOPA:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73719

ndujoe1
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musing about future of PC's

#61 Post by ndujoe1 »

I don't know if this argument is relevant?

But I recall when Geos was being developed it was essentially hardware independent as there were versions for Apple, IBM, Mac, and Commodore.

Can Puppy be created in the same mold?

Saturn
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#62 Post by Saturn »

ndujoe it very well could be done that, way I think, but I don't think anyone would be interested in doing all that work

at least to my knowledge, as far as I know about programming ,for each system, it would have to be specifically compiled( If coded in a high level, or object oriented programing language) for each processor architecture, as different cpu's of different constructions handle things quite differently in both software/firmware, known as registers, that contain the machine code(possibly written in assembly?) to process and handle system functions,like handling I\O ,other systems calls and such
.
I think C++ and all other languages are some how translated into machine code too, by the cpu or something else, because when you really get down to the very deep into internals of the system it's all binary...

But then again, your point may be valid if every architecture worked on the binary system
(it just might, really not a expert in system design or know all the architectural differences between all the different processors, types only know a "Tad" bit of how the x86 platform functions)

'Just sayin...
If binary code is Truly universal, on which all processor builds are based on...
Then it might work

But coding in pure machine language is confusing, complicated and has an extremely sharp,steep and dizzying learning curve

Dare I say writing and compiling machine code takes a special mindset?


ndujoe, does this answer your inquiry at all?

Let me know,
Thanks!

ndujoe1
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Puppy's future

#63 Post by ndujoe1 »

You answered it very well. It is a high bar to travel. If Barry had $1 Billion on hand no problem :)

To assembly a cadre of programmers for that level of work on open source it would be asking too much.

Joe

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Aitch
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#64 Post by Aitch »

I believe xbasic compiles to nmemonics/assembler, on the fly, and is about as close to machine code as programming gets, without actually writing directly in machine code
I think there are way too many differences in hardware processor code to support chips, and even drivers, whether in the kernel, or called on demand; from my understanding, even the hard drives are coded differently for each, x86/32/64/mac/ppc/IBM/sun/amiga/commodore, etc and even desktop/workstation/server have different pci hardware slots/ram addressing/scsi/sas/fibre etc....and it's changing all the time, with the trend now towards multi processor, up to 50 cpus per chip, I've seen, so multitasking and ram size and speeds will play a crucial role in the near future
I hope Barry's venture into Arm is more successful than the Edubook/OLPC efforts

also see http://www.pictutorials.com/Harvard_vs_ ... ecture.htm

http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.js ... 11516.html

Aitch :)

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sickgut
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#65 Post by sickgut »

when i didnt renew my 5 year lease on my warehouse for my computer full retail plus shipping business [EDIT: WTF << the forum changed the word w-h-o-l-e- -- -s-a-l-e to say full retail + shipping!...] in 2002, i kinda felt that PC computers would be $50 boxes you put next to your TV and they would have no user serviceable parts inside them and retailers would only make $10 on the sale of these boxes and for me being a full retail plus shipping selling to retailers, i would be making like $1 or 2 per unit. i thought this would happen in 5 years time ( 2007 or so...it didnt, but its starting to happen now). I decided it was time to get out of computer hardware.

ARM devices are still no where near PC in raw power. Altho flstudio is currently being developed for android and i expect other major software vendors will do the same. In the meantime, if you really wanna do some video editing and etc then PC will still be around for a while. The playstation and xbox have made the PC obselete for gaming, so now the Mac type of computers are on an even ground with PCs (not alot of games made for Mac)

When ARM devices are as powerful as a base PC, then this is when it would be pointless to own a PC, as you can just attach a nice monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers and dvd burner to your tablet device.

This wont happen overnight but it will happen, just like a popular brand of shampoo.

Im sure puppy devs will made a puppy for these devices, but we need to wait till they are powerful enough and are actually available for the common folk first.

There is no reason to believe that puppy wont be ported to these powerful small devices in the future, but right now the problem is they arent powerful enough... give it a few years and they will be. Either there will be a way of including x86 cpus in small devices or the ARM ones will get way better, either way it doesnt matter.

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