Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

[zekebaby]

[rerwin]

[rerwin]

In all the discussion about random loss of sound, no one has addressed what I suspect could be a factor. In analyzing Sylvander's diag files, I saw two sound cards with the same driver and hardware IDs, although their subsystem IDs were different. I suspect that the devices are not always discovered in the same sequence, so that either could end up as device 0, the default sound card.

Both of Sylvander's diags showed the older of the two cards as device 0, at the time that retrovol crashed. My guess is that there is something wrong with the older (built-in?) card that upsets retrovol (the speaker icon program). If Sylvander were to look at the setup while sound and retrovol are working, we could test that theory. Instead of getting a diag file, simply capture the output of the command:
cat /proc/asound/*
during a normal run would either confirm or rule out that card duplication as a cause.

In addition, it would be interesting to have those experiencing the problem run that command both while sound/retrovol is working and when it fails.

The command shows more than we need. The relevant files there are "cards" and "modules".
Richard

[zekebaby]

[Sylvander]

@rerwin

1. I printed out your instructions for a fix from many days back, but it looks rather difficult at 1st glance, and other urgent real-life tasks got in the way, so I've been waiting for the right moment to attempt it.
Is it still appropriate to try this?

2. "just deleting the /dev/snd folder and reboot. That also seemed to work for me. Don't do it from ROX though; add it to the latest shutdown script you can find."
(a) I've previously attempted to delete /dev using Xfe, and that failed to delete.
(b) How to add it [delete of /dev/snd] to the latest shutdown script? Instructions needed.

3. "IIRC, I did the mod in snapmergepuppy in Wary (don't know if it exists in Lupu)"
(a) What does this mean?
(b) What is IIRC?
(c) What is snapmergepuppy?

4. "In analyzing Sylvander's diag files, I saw two sound cards with the same driver and hardware IDs, although their subsystem IDs were different."
I think this donated/gifted hardware has 4-channel sound.
i.e. Surround-sound [via 2-off stereo channels perhaps].

5. "If Sylvander were to look at the setup while sound and retrovol are working, we could test that theory. Instead of getting a diag file, simply capture the output of the command:
cat /proc/asound/*
during a normal run would either confirm or rule out that card duplication as a cause."
(a) Would you like me to restore a pupsave backup [to get back to a working system], then run that command?
(b) What then?

6. "In addition, it would be interesting to have those experiencing the problem run that command both while sound/retrovol is working and when it fails."
(a) Once I know HOW [in detail], I could do it also during a fail-state.

[Sage]

[Sylvander]

OK...
(A)
1. Phoned ErnieK who gave me this desktop PC...
And took a look inside [the side is permanently OFF], whilst on the phone.
Can't see very well; the PC is in the corner, poor access, could disconnect the cables and take it out to gain better access if needed/suggested.

2. There is an added PC sound card in place, but almost UNUSED.
i.e. There is a sound cable connected from the DVD-RW to the sound-card.
That's the only thing making use of it right now.

3. With on-board sound...
I have a splitter connected to the top/green/line-out 3.2mm jack socket, going to: 1=amplified speakers, and 2=an unamplified headset->[volume is OK, even using line signal].
And the headset mic jack going to the bottom/pink/mic socket.

(B)
What's the best thing to do with these?
1. Use only the better quality sound card, and disable the on-board sound in the BIOS Setup?
The manual shows "Chip Configuration->Onboard PCI Audio" [default=enabled, can be disabled]
I'd prefer to use the sound card methinks.
OR...
2. Remove the sound card, and use the on-board sound?
The manual shows "CD1" on mobo->[3 pins=left-audio,grnd,right-audio] for CD-drive audio->[I see this is not connected right now].
OR...
3. Have BOTH on-board AND the sound card enabled, and use both?
Is that possible?
OR...
4. Have the Puppy choose which or BOTH to use, and software-disable whatever is un-needed?

5. Why no sound problem with other Puppies, only Lupu-528 [not with Lupu-526]?

[playdayz]

Sylvander, Thank you for the thorough testing. Here is the latest snapmergepuppy with the change that zekebaby recommended. You could try it on a fresh install of lupu-528.003.iso. No need for any other of the fixes. Let's see if this works.

[Sage]

Congratulations! I have been doing HW diagnosis by phone and email for a long time and was 99% sure of your situation.
SW is one thing, but you will always run into problems unless you fix the HW once and for all.
Chances are that the add-in sound card is superior, that's why it was, errr, added.
Look up the specs of on-board and card chips to confirm which is best.
If you just want muzak in the background of indeterminate quality, rip out the add-in card and make do with the on-board sound.
If you need quality for feeding hi-fi, video phone, serious sound projects, it's time to take scalpel in hand and disable that on-board chip in the ways I described above.
There is absolutely no way you can guarantee no problems with the SW until you fix the HW. It may work initially with pd's clever SW manipulation, but one upgrade will break it again every time. Do it now, do it right.

[shinobar]

Sorry i have not yet reviewed rerwin's code but deleting /dev/snd is good i think.
I proposed to Barry to remove whole /dev in the savefile, but Barry sais we need to keep symlinks.
Yes, we need to keep only symlinks user made but all the rest under /dev can be, should be, removed from the savefile.

EDIT: Ah, recent woof is removing /dev/snd, It's OK as for sound.
What i want to say is removing whole /dev except symlinks is better. Because i sometimes got trouble with usb printers.

[kevin bowers]

[Sage]

Horses & Courses, Kev!
Depends if you want OK or excellence.
And it really ain't rocket science or need special tools as you suggest.
Folks round here tend to be techno geeks. Mostly they are good at reading, good at searching and surfing, although comprehension is lacking amongst the usual suspects. The datasheet shows a square/rectangle with numbers around it and the keyway. The numbers correspond to a bunch of irrelevant functions apart from '+', 'in', and 'out'. After that, all you need for the radical solution is a magnifying glass like the one grandpa uses to read letters from the Revenue and a scalpel, with or without a holder (ask a friendly nurse?), or 'hobby' knife or even a new Stanley blade. It isn't necessary to tangle with the board inter-layers - the plastic blob is sitting there on the top. If you doubt your talents, then sever all its damn legs!
Those who regularly settle for less know what to expect - that's the message I was sending.

[Sylvander]

(A) STEPS
31. Restored PupsaveHotBackup=5 using Wary-5.2.2, then reboot to Lupu-528.003->[with pmedia=ataflash in isolinux.cfg in the ISO]
32. Installed snapmergefix.pet

(B) All looks well, with loudspeaker icon displayed.
Let's see how long that lasts.
Will report back after some reboots.

@Sage
(C) I have a magnifying glass and a scalpel, but...
I think I'd rather use onboard sound than sever the connections.
Don't need high performance sound anyway.
I'll begin with the easy methods and [if that fails] work my way up to increasing difficulty, but only if/as/when necessary.

[Brown Mouse]

[zekebaby]