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Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 13:40    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Thanks once again shinobar.

otropogo, shinobar meant that the problem I was seeing with newer versions of ntfs-3g required the /bin/mount fix he described. And sure enough, I have compiled the full version of the latest ntfs-3g 2012.1.15 (on Lupu Plus Libre) and it is working for me without the error message.


Thanks for the clarification, and my apologies to shinobar. The reference on Barry's blog seemed to me to refer to the older ntfs-3g driver I already had installed

Quote:
[...
Since your problem is intermittent and only applies to usb ntfs?????



Correct.

Quote:
Do i gather that you have an adapter from e-sata to usb 3.0


Incorrect. The USB3.0 adapter is from pci-express bus to USB3.0

Quote:
--that sounds like potential problem--but the intermittent aspect is a mystery. Lupu Plus/Libre has the latest that rerwin has prepared for usb stuff.


Never a problem in Centos once the 2011 ntfs-3g drive package is installed, nor has it been a problem in Slacko, except for hot-plugging. So I don't think it was a hardware issue.

So far lpl-2's native usb driver seems to work fine with my USB3.0 adapter. will certainly report any problems that arise. I only have the use of that laptop intermittently, so my testing has been limited. But so far, no issues.


Quote:
You might want to reboot after installing it, just in case.


my latest ntfs-3g on USB tests (only on my desktop machine, and only on USB2.0 - will test USB3.0 later)

1. attached Goflex 3TB USB3.0 drive to USB2.0 port - icon appears on desktop

2. mounted the ntfs partition with Pmount - ntfs read-only error popup. Writing, renaming, deleting of files is disabled. Repeated three times with same result each time

3. backed up my 2fs file

4. uninstalled the ntfs-3g_2010.3.6 pet with packet manager

5. installed your new ntfs-3g pet

6. mounted the ntfs partition - no error message. Repeated three times with same result. Successfully copied, renamed, and deleted files on the ntfs partition without error messages or apparent issues. (no reboot required)

Will test on USB3.0 on the laptop later today. So far, the new driver seems to have solved my ntfs-on-usb problem. Thank you!

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5084
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 13:42    Post subject:  

playdayz,

Thanks for the newest version pet of ntfs-3g.
By the change log for ntfs-3g, there have been a lot of changes and updates, from the version that shipped with Lucid528. It may fix issues that no one ever sees. Reading the log, it had fixes for stuff I would never see happening.
Anything that may make Puppy work better with NTFS is a good thing.

You would think at some point, a program would be 100%, but seems it is always trying to reach that 100%.

You and others are getting very close with Lucid/Lupu Puppy Laughing Wink
Trouble is the target keeps changing.

The new ntfs-3g seems to be working OK for me, but I was not having problems. Maybe? Wink

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 14:23    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

jim3630 wrote:
otropogo wrote:

No shinobar, the ntfs read-only problem I've described is not a simple false error message issue. When the error message pops up, files cannot be written, renamed, nor deleted on the ntfs partition.

And, most importantly, as I keep pointing out, this has manifested only on USB-connected ntfs partitions, never once with any ntfs partition on an internal hard drive.


otropogo take a breath more than just your problems here.


I don't know what makes the ntfs-3g just "my" problem. It's a potential problem for any user, and about as serious a problem as I can think of. But thanks for reminding me that it's not the only problem with lupu.

In fact, I've had a continuing problem with audio/video playback being out of sync with the default av player for a long time. I used the 002 and the 003 update patch in hopes of fixing it (I don't remember it being an issue in earlier versions of Puppy, certainly not in 4.xxx), but nothing has worked. It persists in lupupluslibre-02 as well.

The audio gets progressively out of sync the longer the clip runs. stopping the playback and restarting seems to bring it back together for a while, but it's a most annoying defect, both esthetically and when trying to follow instructions on a how-to video.

My experience is limited to mp4 and flv files.

I'm running lupupluslibre on an Intel D865GLC motherboard with a 3GHz P4 cpu, 2GB of 233Mhz SD RAM, a Radeon XL1550 display adapter and an Intel ICH5 audio chip...

NB: The videos in question were all downloaded with either Firefox or Seamonkey, and none of them ran out of sync when being viewed online with either of those browsers, only when being viewed offline.

I don't think this problem is ultimately anywhere near as important as the ntfs issue - at least for anyone who uses lupu for serious work, but can imagine that there are probably a lot more lupu users who share my interest in finding a fix for it.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 776
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 15:12    Post subject: LupuPlus running beautifully  

Hi playdaz,

Just to report that LupuPlus is running beautifully on my main box. Starting with a clean, fresh SaveFile eliminated the problems. Sometimes shortcuts take you the long way.

I hope you continue to support this version of Lupu. Certainly, LupuLibre is a great idea, and a great convenience. But for those of us who explore multiple Puppies, running LibreOffice via an SFS has its advantages, not the least of which is the ability to unload it if necessary. That advantage can also become crucial for those running Lupu from a USB Key where the specs of the host computer may vary.
That circumstance is also one of the reasons I do not favor pae builds. Until now, Three-headed-dog has been, on my main box, my work-horse: the Puplet first on my Grub4Dos menu and the default for doing "actual work." Once I've customized a Puplet on my main box, it's easy to copy it over to other computers: boot into something else, copy it to usb key, copy from usb key. I was greatly disappointed after doing that to discover my Thinkpad 42 (my second-most-often-used-computer)* would not support pae-enabled Three-headed-dog.

mikesLr

* My main box is supposed to be able to boot from a USB, but somehow I screwed that up. My Thinkpad has no problems doing so and so is my test bed for Puppies on a USB. That, and the fact that the Thinkpad most often is found in "the family room."
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 15:23    Post subject:  

otropogo,

Quote:
NB: The videos in question were all downloaded with either Firefox or Seamonkey, and none of them ran out of sync when being viewed online with either of those browsers, only when being viewed offline.

Where are these videos download too?
Have you tried all the available media players?
Buffer and cache settings, in media players, can have an effect.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 15:49    Post subject:  

Playdayz,

I just used the help in VLC media player.
You have spoiled me for using other Puppies.
It is so nice having program help working Very Happy

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 17:26    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

otropogo wrote:
jim3630 wrote:
otropogo wrote:

No shinobar, the ntfs read-only problem I've described is not a simple false error message issue. When the error message pops up, files cannot be written, renamed, nor deleted on the ntfs partition.

And, most importantly, as I keep pointing out, this has manifested only on USB-connected ntfs partitions, never once with any ntfs partition on an internal hard drive.


otropogo take a breath more than just your problems here.


I don't know what makes the ntfs-3g just "my" problem. It's a potential problem for any user, and about as serious a problem as I can think of. But thanks for reminding me that it's not the only problem with lupu.


otropogo

not quite it. my comment is about you assumed shinobar post that is addressed to Playdayz was about your problem you are having with your computer. thought you got that when latter posted "my apologies to shinobar" since that is rude. has nothing to do with other problem lupu may have.
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 00:28    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

jim3630 wrote:
....

otropogo take a breath more than just your problems here.


Quote:
I don't know what makes the ntfs-3g just "my" problem. It's a potential problem for any user, and about as serious a problem as I can think of. But thanks for reminding me that it's not the only problem with lupu.


otropogo


Quote:
not quite it. my comment is about you assumed shinobar post that is addressed to Playdayz was about your problem you are having with your computer. thought you got that when latter posted "my apologies to shinobar" since that is rude. has nothing to do with other problem lupu may have.


Misunderstandings are to be expected in this sort of forum. But when you go out of your way to lecture someone about rudeness, you should at least do your homework.

I did mine. I read Shinobar's link to Barry's blog, and I've also read the link in Barry's blog. The reference is unmistakably to my earlier description of my ntfs-3g problem in lupu, dated November 2011.

If, as playdayz advised me, that was not what Shinobar meant (and which I accepted in good grace) then the fault lies in the wording of Shinobar's latest post, not with me.

And frankly, I think it's not only normal, but quite correct to get a little testy when one has to repeat essential details of a problem over, and over, and over again, in order to stop posters annoyingly and counterproductively continuing to bark up the wrong tree. Do you have a better suggestion?

Why not devote some of your indignation to chiding those who respond carelessly to meticulously detailed and checked trouble reports by repeating them in mangled form or overlooking essential elements? I would certainly applaud that.

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 01:24    Post subject: lpl-2 USB3.0/ntfs success - thanks Playdayz and Shinobar  

Was able to test lupupluslibre-02's USB3.0/ntfs-3g functionality just now on the Toshiba laptop, using the Sabrent pci-expressbus USB3.0 adapter and comparing functionality under first the native ntfs-3g driver, and then under the newer driver provided in Playdayz' pet.

I booted with the adapter installed, and the USB3.0 drive attached and powered up.

the drive's icon appeared automatically on the desktop, but in five successive tries to write to the drive, it failed every time with the previously described read-only error.

I then installed the ntfs_2012 pet, and in six further mount, write, erase, rename, unmount cycles did not experience a single error message, or any evodence of write failures.

Midway through this test, I moved the USB 3.0 cable to the second port on the adapter, and was able to continue the remaining tests successfully. It appears that the ntfs issue has been effectively solved, and that it was unrelated to the USB3.0 driver.

NB: However, after I removed the adapter from the expresscard bus and reattached it and the drive, the drive could not longer be accessed in either read-write or read-only mode. No icon appeared, and pmount would not display the drive.

In Windows7, with the proprietary Sabrent driver installed, the expresscard adapter can be hot-plugged after bootup or after the adapter is accidentally released (very easy to do on the Toshiba port, even just while unplugging or plugging in the usb cable), so the lpl-2 user must exercise extra care and planning.

Thank you Playdayz and Shinobar for solving this vexing problem. There are few things more unsettling to my mind than an unreliable backup storage device.

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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 01:26    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

otropogo wrote:

Why not devote some of your indignation to chiding those who respond carelessly to meticulously detailed and checked trouble reports by repeating them in mangled form or overlooking essential elements? I would certainly applaud that.


otropogo

i applaud your behavior of late must admit has been free of verbal abuse which so characterized you here on this forum. if you continue acting respectful you probably will be treated with respect.

anyone can respond carelessly and you apologized after my post then reply to me off the wall sounding sarcastic. so why be surprised at my follow up post.

lose the attitude as quoted above. this is a community and it doesn't help. if your rude and someone mentions it do the right thing and you don't even have to respond to them. after awhile people will only know you as you act now and not as before.

enjoyed following your posts of late think it has helped and will influence Lucid development.
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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 01:31    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

otropogo wrote:


And frankly, I think it's not only normal, but quite correct to get a little testy when one has to repeat essential details of a problem over, and over, and over again, in order to stop posters annoyingly and counterproductively continuing to bark up the wrong tree. Do you have a better suggestion?


otropogo

you don't control others and it is not your business what they do. you are here seeking help and getting testy as you say does not motivate anyone to help you.

-----
forgot to put in the suggestion which is in the form of an old adage. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Last edited by jim3630 on Wed 02 May 2012, 12:00; edited 1 time in total
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 11:09    Post subject:  

Quote:
That circumstance is also one of the reasons I do not favor pae builds. Until now, Three-headed-dog has been, on my main box, my work-horse: the Puplet first on my Grub4Dos menu and the default for doing "actual work." Once I've customized a Puplet on my main box, it's easy to copy it over to other computers: boot into something else, copy it to usb key, copy from usb key. I was greatly disappointed after doing that to discover my Thinkpad 42 (my second-most-often-used-computer)* would not support pae-enabled Three-headed-dog.

Mikeslr. Do you mean Sulu--that was pae enabled because I used Barry's 3.0.25 kernel. I don't plan to pursue sulu at all-- it was an experiment. But there has been no change to the 3HD kernel.

otropogo, I am happy to hear that the new ntfs-3g driver is helpful. Sometimes it takes awhile because we do not have the resources in testers and developers we had when we were developing Lucid as the official Puppy. Whenever something gets fixed I regard it as an accident and a miracle Wink

BigPup, You raise a vexing question. As I say we don't have the resources in testers as we did before, so I am reluctant to upgrade things that are not broken just for the sake of the upgrade because in my experience that will often break something that is not broken, or there will be unanticipated problems with the upgrade. The Linux development model encourages upgrading of course--people think that they must have the latest version and it is true that the latest version does often have improvements. But what I am concerned with most now is not breaking things for people who are already using Lucid and for whom it is working.
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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 1658
Location: wales

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 12:42    Post subject:  

hi playdaze

i got given a acer aspire one 722 as a present, and lucid puppy is the only puppy that works on it so far. after a bit of head scratching i've finally got the ati driver installed. and sound working of sorts...

the problem is that although sound is working, i have to change the levels through aslamixer or gnome alsa mixer. the retrovol task bar volume slider moves up and down, but doesn't change the volume.

the volume can be changed in some apps vlc & deadbeef for instance, but not in others mplayer for instance.

the sound card is reported as... Conexant ID 506c in gnome alsa mixer
and as hda-intel ATI technologies inc SBx00 Azalia (intel HDA) (rev 40) in alsa wizard

any thoughts?

cheers

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 13:06    Post subject: Re: ntfs error  

jim3630 wrote:
otropogo wrote:


And frankly, I think it's not only normal, but quite correct to get a little testy when one has to repeat essential details of a problem over, and over, and over again, in order to stop posters annoyingly and counterproductively continuing to bark up the wrong tree. Do you have a better suggestion?


otropogo

you don't control others and it is not your business what they do. you are here seeking help and getting testy as you say does not motivate anyone to help you.

-----
forgot to put in the suggestion which is in the form of an old adage. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


I don't strive to motivate others to help me. I consider this forum, and the linux enterprise as a whole, to be a communal effort in which everyone strives to contribute to the improvement of the OS as best they can.

One essential aspect of that co-operative effort is the careful input of useful data, and another, just as essential, is the minimization of bad data and noise.

I'm scratching my head trying make sense of your "honey" and "flies" analogy. Do you really believe that flattery will make people read more carefully? Please explain.

At this point, your two posts on this issue seem to fall clearly into the "noise" category. You say I "don't control others and it is not your business what they do". Yet you seem to make it your business what I do, and your footnote suggest it's merely my technique that's at fault. I suggest that it's your logic and your analogy that are faulty.

Assuming I'm your "fly", where's your honey?

I really do wish I had some sweetener to motivate you to post more constructively, but my imagination fails me. Furthermore, it seems to me that my long, frustrating campaign to get ntfs-3g updated in lupu has been sufficiently "motivating" to get the desired result.

If someone else had been able and willing to achieve this more quickly and agreeably with honeyed words, I would gladly have cheered them on from the sidelines. But as is so often the case, there was no-one else to take up the cause, and indeed, I can recall no encouragement from other users. Instead I endured the usual gratuitous suggestions of user error and defective hardware.

However, I manage to soldier on without a word of appreciation. So I think the coders should be able to manage with the satisfaction of having accomplished their work, and the pats on the back I've sincerely offered when warranted.

OTOH, I don't think anything is potentially more damaging to the whole Linux movement than the attitude expressed by the phrase (credit to Sylvester the Cat, spoken with a sarcastic lisp):

"would you mind awfully taking your silly-ass problem down the hall?"

Puppy users should not be treated as beggars, and their problems should not be dismissed as due to user error or defective hardware unless and until this has been thoroughly established.

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 13:29    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
otropogo,

Quote:
NB: The videos in question were all downloaded with either Firefox or Seamonkey, and none of them ran out of sync when being viewed online with either of those browsers, only when being viewed offline.

Where are these videos download too?
Have you tried all the available media players?
Buffer and cache settings, in media players, can have an effect.


The videos are all saved to the system's internal hard drive, and there are no other cpu-intensive processes running to explain the problem.

I haven't tried any other media players yet, only the default Gnome Mplayer. Looking in the Start/multimedia dropdown list, or the "open with" list, I see no obvious replacements.

The Gnome Player's settings are at their defaults:

PLAYER tab

video out : X11
audio out: default
audio channels to output: stereo
enable AC3/DTS pass-through :unchecked
default volume level:20
on screen display level: no display
post-processing level:no processing

MPLAYER tab

all boxes checked except "enable mplayer cache"

mplayer executable: (none)
extra options to Mplayer: (blank)

I haven't tried reconfiguring. Do you have any suggestions?

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