I have modded the mpd.conf and alsa-base.conf as described here (THANKS A LOT Guys !!!!)...
Everything worked with nano like a charme. Result: Air, Power, Precison and Naturalness. The OS seems to disappear...each little Bios-Change becomes visible / audible...Each little characteristic of the recording is sudenly there and presented, there is no signature added...one rcording is warm and full and the next analytic etcetc.
So....mission achieved ?
Not yet. Now the hardware is on review. Currently am am running a Biostar's P4M900-M7 with an old Dual Core @ 1 ghz. Need to tune the memory which is running at 400 mhz, but the timings I have to look into.
On this board I see a couple of electrolytics which you be exchanged against Oscons...not sure If this board is worth the hassle.
On the Bench: The Z68, which is not working....wondering which I5 Boards you guys are using (RayCtech ?)...
An Intel 2550cc-Board is sitting and waiting to get tested...wondering if the here mentioned Asrock 525 is an older, but better alternative...
...and the Alix as well, which I will Mod, but where I am searching (not yet found) for a MINIPCI to PCI Adapter to use the fabulous sounding SOTM USB-Card which is powered directly by a discrete PSU....here I need to learn what the SSH-stuff is all about
PSU...today I will build my discrete 12V-PSU and will combine this with Minit-Itx...
Thanks a lot for this great work again ! Wich the right motherboard it is working like a dream !!! Would be good to get some of the after-glive-mods in the next release (like the unmute-thing, the performance-tweaks etc)
By the way: I assume a lot of you work with a NAS / Network...has anyone played around with the buffers of the network-card ?
Update:
I Started to install to the Intel 2500cc....Big Problems. Winx does not start...dhcp does not work...no mounting etc.
so, i guess, it would be the right thing to start to list the motherboards which really work with mpdpup and which dont...I tried now three and only one which you cant buy anymore works...
OLD: mpdPup - Simplified MPD Music Server/Jukebox - v0.9.2
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RayCtech
It seems that a lot of hardware vendors don't spend much time on Linux compatibility, so choosing brand new boards with cutting edge chipsets can often bite you. Choosing boards based on older chipsets that are on long term support roadmaps is generally the safest route. Since MPD's hardware requirements are negligible there's nothing wrong with choosing tried & true older hardware.
I'm not sure if moving to a 3.0 kernel from 2.6.39 would help a lot with this situation, but it may since that's where new driver development is happening now.
The next release will have the latest Intel Graphics drivers, and the wizards will be able to do the tweaks mentioned earlier along with mpd buffer configuration. Beyond that there are a lot of bug fixes and the ability to install some php clients and GMPC. It looks like I'll still be defaulting to mpd 0.16.x though - I was just trialing 0.17.1 on my main system and I'm not very happy with it - lots of drop-outs and one or two instances where the audio devolved into static. I guess 0.17.x isn't quite ready for prime time. I might include an option where a user can swap between them though.
I'm not sure if moving to a 3.0 kernel from 2.6.39 would help a lot with this situation, but it may since that's where new driver development is happening now.
The next release will have the latest Intel Graphics drivers, and the wizards will be able to do the tweaks mentioned earlier along with mpd buffer configuration. Beyond that there are a lot of bug fixes and the ability to install some php clients and GMPC. It looks like I'll still be defaulting to mpd 0.16.x though - I was just trialing 0.17.1 on my main system and I'm not very happy with it - lots of drop-outs and one or two instances where the audio devolved into static. I guess 0.17.x isn't quite ready for prime time. I might include an option where a user can swap between them though.
For your reference, the boards I've tested :
Intel D410
MSI E350IA-E45
JW 2500
Issues discovered :
Intel D410
MSI E350IA-E45
JW 2500
Issues discovered :
- Graphic driver problem on the JW as mentioned by Idolse, not an issue for me as mostly I use CLI.
On one of them I had a problem with DHCP (between the Intel & MSI, I don't remember which one) and it only happened once and I was not able to reproduce the problem. The solution was to start the network config wizard.
On the MSI, I cannot use the CF-SATA adapter but booting from USB works just fine.
Last (?) Hardware Question
@idolse I saw that the motherboard you mentioned earlier in this thread: Intel D945GSEJT, is still for sale in my town. Is it a faster and or better alternative for the alix board? And do you know weither or not there are problems with saving playlists with this version of mpdpup or mpd? Kind regards: Toine
Hi Toine, the D945GSEJT is a great board, I think Intel sort of treated it as a reference design around the Atom N270 & the 945GSE chipset, and a lot were made, which is why you can still find it today. In terms of comparison with the Alix, it's a lot more powerful, probably 3-4x more powerful, but it also draws about double the power (though 10-12 watts is still quite low). The extra horse-power won't buy you a lot - if you're actually interacting with the system it definitely feels snappier, but for playing back music the difference doesn't really matter. I sort of doubt it's sufficiently powerful for tasks like real-time high-quality sample rate conversion, but I haven't really explored that.
In terms of compatibility with mpdPup - it's still my reference board, and I won't release an update that I'm not confident works flawlessly my own kit
. I'm not sure what playlist problem you're referring to - I haven't had any problems with saving/using playlists, so probably not an issue.
In terms of compatibility with mpdPup - it's still my reference board, and I won't release an update that I'm not confident works flawlessly my own kit
. I'm not sure what playlist problem you're referring to - I haven't had any problems with saving/using playlists, so probably not an issue.-
multiblitz
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52
Ok guys...I learned from this discussion that the Asrock AD525PV3 should be a good choice....so I ordered it, just fired it up...and it looses the network setting in the same way as the Z68-Board or the Atom 2500cc board.
If you made this work, please tell me your trick.
I tried as well the Alix-Board with booting from the stick only (not CF-card). Well, that one does not apear on my router, no Ip-Adress...so HAS the Alix to be booted from CF-card in anyway ?
I have a lot of respect for this special effort to put mpdpup together. But this bug that it does loose the network-adress or Auto-DHCP not working...this one really needs a fix. I tried now 4 boards, only one is working...
If you made this work, please tell me your trick.
I tried as well the Alix-Board with booting from the stick only (not CF-card). Well, that one does not apear on my router, no Ip-Adress...so HAS the Alix to be booted from CF-card in anyway ?
I have a lot of respect for this special effort to put mpdpup together. But this bug that it does loose the network-adress or Auto-DHCP not working...this one really needs a fix. I tried now 4 boards, only one is working...
Hi Multiblitz, really sorry you're having so many issues, you're the first person to have this many issues getting the basic network up and running. I don't see where anyone mentioned that the AD525PV3 is a good choice. The Ethernet chipset it uses is the Atheros AR8151 which seems to be problematic on many variants of Linux, e.g.:multiblitz wrote:Ok guys...I learned from this discussion that the Asrock AD525PV3 should be a good choice....so I ordered it, just fired it up...and it looses the network setting in the same way as the Z68-Board or the Atom 2500cc board.
If you made this work, please tell me your trick.
I tried as well the Alix-Board with booting from the stick only (not CF-card). Well, that one does not apear on my router, no Ip-Adress...so HAS the Alix to be booted from CF-card in anyway ?
I have a lot of respect for this special effort to put mpdpup together. But this bug that it does loose the network-adress or Auto-DHCP not working...this one really needs a fix. I tried now 4 boards, only one is working...
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77947
If the GUI is coming up you can try and launch the network wizard to try and get an IP or even see if the interface is even being discovered - a little more troubleshooting detail would help to give you advice.
Regarding the Alix board, you probably need the Compact Flash, not sure what the BIOS default is, but it's likely that it's not looking at the USB at all. You'd need an RS232 cable to change the BIOS unless you got the Alix with VGA.
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multiblitz
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52
...sounded like that...Douwe01nl wrote:Thanks Idolse, I can check nrpacks now, great!
In the mean time i switched from Alix 3D3 to Atom board (Asrock AD 525PV3) and from battery to a hybrid linear/switching PSU (12v linear + pico-psu). Both brought me more detail and musicality. Douwe
...I did already exactly what you suggested, it will than find the connect in the mpdwizard....but forgets everything after the re-boot.
will follow on the Alix tomorrow...
Hey mulitblitz,
I think I was one of the first that ran the Alix, I followed the instructions on the first post with using netbootin and putty. The cf works. And works well. Haven't tried the USB. Reason- I want nothing but the USB card on the bus. My thoughts would be to follow the netbootin via a cf card on the Alix, use the Ethernet closest to the power socket. Takes about a minute to boot. Set a static ip via the wizard. Reboot, then look on the router. If no joy, try the other Ethernet port. Or perhaps into a switch, I have had routers where one port would not address.
Have a crack at the cf card. Worth the try!
Drew.
I think I was one of the first that ran the Alix, I followed the instructions on the first post with using netbootin and putty. The cf works. And works well. Haven't tried the USB. Reason- I want nothing but the USB card on the bus. My thoughts would be to follow the netbootin via a cf card on the Alix, use the Ethernet closest to the power socket. Takes about a minute to boot. Set a static ip via the wizard. Reboot, then look on the router. If no joy, try the other Ethernet port. Or perhaps into a switch, I have had routers where one port would not address.
Have a crack at the cf card. Worth the try!
Drew.
I wonder if something else is going on. You're not giving me much detail to help you with. So the network wizard found the card, correct? The GUI should show what driver it's using, can you let me know? Ideally you should start from scratch by deleting the save file from the USB stick so you can give me the answer to these questions in terms of a fresh install vs. reboots.multiblitz wrote:...I did already exactly what you suggested, it will than find the connect in the mpdwizard....but forgets everything after the re-boot.
How exactly are you rebooting? The network wizard should save a file at /etc/network-wizard/network/interfaces/<mac address>.conf, where <mac address> is your actual mac address. When you reboot can you check to see that this file exists? Also cat the file and let me know what it's contents are.
After rebooting does the network wizard still see the card? Is the driver still the same as it was from the first boot? If you re-configure from the wizard can it still connect?
The output of this file (AFTER the first reboot) would be helpful too
Code: Select all
cat /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE-
multiblitz
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52
I will give you all the detail you want...oer the course of the day I will write everything down. for the start ( I will edit this post later to add the return of the command etc.)
First of all: I started each time with a clean, new formatted USB-Stick with MPDPUP on it.
The system is than booting. Than you have basically two choices: Either you go into the MPDwizard or you go into the General help/ config ( a white screen with some cliparts on it where you can start a network-config wizard).
The adapter is always found. (ether0). The IP-Adress is always 127.0.0.1. Only if I choose than DHCP Auto and force it to get an IP-Adress from the router, we have a connection.
I can go into the MPDwizard and achieve the same thing in the connection setting wizard as well. In the MpDWizard the sequence is only "wrong": First it looks for a user/pw to connect to the network drive and later it starts to ask for the network setting, so if you do not go into the General Wizard than you willl fail the connection test.
So, than I follow simply the wizard to the end. It is saving some files as normal, takes time. reboots itself.
And after reboot: Lost its memory on Ip Adress. Network adapter is still seen, But IP-Adress is lost, no matter if I used Auto-DHCP or static Ip, cant mount, cant start mpd.
The only thing I can test addiotnally would be if the USB-Stick itself could be the topic. The running version is a 2 GB one, The other ones are 4 GB (USB3), 8 GB(USB2). All have been setup nby the same machine in the same process.
On the commends etc....I will post this later...need to bring my son to a barber...
Eidt:
update: Alix is working....was actually pretty easy to setup from the CF-card....listening session will follow...soldering iron for exchanging the caps to oscons is warming up....
Short update again: Alix vs Biostar with Dual Core and SOTM USB-CARD: The Alix is softer, smoother, more analogue, but is lacking a bit transparency and attack ( has the same parameter optimizations as the Biostar). The Biostar is clearer, more powerful, but as well more technical sounding.
Bothe have no mods on the PSU...the Alix is powered with a small switching PSU and the Biostar with a Silverstone fanless. Alix as well ist just playing now 2 hours, not burned in at all so far...I guess I will give it some Oscons and a large filtering bank...
First of all: I started each time with a clean, new formatted USB-Stick with MPDPUP on it.
The system is than booting. Than you have basically two choices: Either you go into the MPDwizard or you go into the General help/ config ( a white screen with some cliparts on it where you can start a network-config wizard).
The adapter is always found. (ether0). The IP-Adress is always 127.0.0.1. Only if I choose than DHCP Auto and force it to get an IP-Adress from the router, we have a connection.
I can go into the MPDwizard and achieve the same thing in the connection setting wizard as well. In the MpDWizard the sequence is only "wrong": First it looks for a user/pw to connect to the network drive and later it starts to ask for the network setting, so if you do not go into the General Wizard than you willl fail the connection test.
So, than I follow simply the wizard to the end. It is saving some files as normal, takes time. reboots itself.
And after reboot: Lost its memory on Ip Adress. Network adapter is still seen, But IP-Adress is lost, no matter if I used Auto-DHCP or static Ip, cant mount, cant start mpd.
The only thing I can test addiotnally would be if the USB-Stick itself could be the topic. The running version is a 2 GB one, The other ones are 4 GB (USB3), 8 GB(USB2). All have been setup nby the same machine in the same process.
On the commends etc....I will post this later...need to bring my son to a barber...
Eidt:
update: Alix is working....was actually pretty easy to setup from the CF-card....listening session will follow...soldering iron for exchanging the caps to oscons is warming up....
Short update again: Alix vs Biostar with Dual Core and SOTM USB-CARD: The Alix is softer, smoother, more analogue, but is lacking a bit transparency and attack ( has the same parameter optimizations as the Biostar). The Biostar is clearer, more powerful, but as well more technical sounding.
Bothe have no mods on the PSU...the Alix is powered with a small switching PSU and the Biostar with a Silverstone fanless. Alix as well ist just playing now 2 hours, not burned in at all so far...I guess I will give it some Oscons and a large filtering bank...
Last edited by multiblitz on Sat 11 Aug 2012, 15:55, edited 2 times in total.
dhcp is the default, the wizards assume dhcp will be successful, which is why share configuration comes before setting a static IP. Static IP is last because it can't be changed during the initial setup if that's done over ssh.
It sounds like there is some issue with initializing the ethernet on your setup. I doubt the USB stick has anything to do with it, but I need the answers to the other questions I asked.
It sounds like there is some issue with initializing the ethernet on your setup. I doubt the USB stick has anything to do with it, but I need the answers to the other questions I asked.
Volume control
I have this amazing Puppy connected to pC-> DAC -> amplifier....
there is no one place i can control the volume as hardware and if i send it bit perfect even the software mpd client cant even control i tried even doing setting change in sound and made it to hardware software independent but is there any place i can control the volume in this....even tried alsa mixer that is not helping
there is no one place i can control the volume as hardware and if i send it bit perfect even the software mpd client cant even control i tried even doing setting change in sound and made it to hardware software independent but is there any place i can control the volume in this....even tried alsa mixer that is not helping
I read somewhere on diyaudio forum that SMPS doesn't like huge caps bank. I think it's better to replace that SMPS with linear supply, as Alix consumes very few watts a linear ps is very easy to built.multiblitz wrote: Bothe have no mods on the PSU...the Alix is powered with a small switching PSU and the Biostar with a Silverstone fanless. Alix as well ist just playing now 2 hours, not burned in at all so far...I guess I will give it some Oscons and a large filtering bank...
Re: Volume control
Hi thisvv, it's a bit dangerous to have a setup where there is no hardware limiting the max volume to the amps - even getting this working with mpdPup, software glitches happen.thisisvv wrote:there is no one place i can control the volume as hardware and if i send it bit perfect even the software mpd client cant even control i tried even doing setting change in sound and made it to hardware software independent but is there any place i can control the volume in this....even tried alsa mixer that is not helping
You can definitely get mpd's software volume control working. Whether or not the hardware volume control works is dependent on the hardware itself (does it even have an internal hardware volume, e.g. a dithered digital volume) and whether it's susceptible to a bug in mpdPup's wizards with regard to setting up a hardware volume control.
Simplest solution: re-run 'mpdwizard', choose sound settings, and enable the software volume control.
Slightly more difficult: re-run 'mpdwizard', choose sound settings, and enable the hardware volume control. If the control does not work, do the following:
Code: Select all
nano /etc/mpd.confCode: Select all
mixer_device "hw:1"ctrl-x to exit, 'y' to save.
type 'save2flash' or 'reboot' to save the changes.
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multiblitz
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52
I guess I need to take a break...just smoked the biostar motherboard somehow...so besides the Alix no motherboard left to experiment with.
The Alix is smooth and soft playing, but defintly a little less transparent and a bit hazy...compared against w7 64bit optimized for audio and jriver as well. the w7 setup is mich more transparent and powerful, has more air around anything, opens a windows. it lacks the sweetness and musicality of the alix a bit, but is far more dynamic and dramatic.
Eidt: By the way: My hypothesis is: It has nothing to do with MPDPUP, this is more the effect of the GREAT USB-Implementation of the dedicated SOTM-USB-CArd. This card makes the normal Windows Pc already sing and killed my Lynx 16e card....Would LOVE to use this with the Alix...could be a killer combo, but the only adapter I found (IM380) shall cost 299 $
I ordered the voyage cf as well, but that was in the alix no plug and play at all. I parked that one.
It would be great to have a mpdpup version,
- which has a kernel that supports modern boards, ideally 64bit, so that volume can be used nearly lossless
- optimize the parameters mentioned plus some parameter on the lan buffers
- alsa
The Alix is smooth and soft playing, but defintly a little less transparent and a bit hazy...compared against w7 64bit optimized for audio and jriver as well. the w7 setup is mich more transparent and powerful, has more air around anything, opens a windows. it lacks the sweetness and musicality of the alix a bit, but is far more dynamic and dramatic.
Eidt: By the way: My hypothesis is: It has nothing to do with MPDPUP, this is more the effect of the GREAT USB-Implementation of the dedicated SOTM-USB-CArd. This card makes the normal Windows Pc already sing and killed my Lynx 16e card....Would LOVE to use this with the Alix...could be a killer combo, but the only adapter I found (IM380) shall cost 299 $
I ordered the voyage cf as well, but that was in the alix no plug and play at all. I parked that one.
It would be great to have a mpdpup version,
- which has a kernel that supports modern boards, ideally 64bit, so that volume can be used nearly lossless
- optimize the parameters mentioned plus some parameter on the lan buffers
- alsa
Last edited by multiblitz on Sun 12 Aug 2012, 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
Volume Control
I can imagine that a software volume control would be useful for testing. For longer term listening it has to have problems in sound quality. With the music signal attenuated, you are effectively running the noise floor of your DAC at full volume while attenuating the music. Effectively you have designed the perfect way to destroy the signal to noise ratio. Kind of the antithesis of why I would use the Alix as a dedicated transport.
Another way to test the system that I have used is to build a fixed shunt volume attenuator. One for each channel. Just takes a total of 4 resistors. 1/4W metal film is perfect. There are lots of sites that can show the values required for a given attenuation value such as -50db.
I can suggest the lightspeed attenuator as a very inexpensive DIY audiophile volume control. It is basically the shunt attenuator using variable resistors. You could power it from the same linear source used for the Alix. Like everything, a cheap 5v walwort will work for the lightspeed, but a well filtered linear supply will kick the music quality up a few notches.
post 939 in this link describes my experience and the circuit used. I am happily using this 5 years later. When my tube based monoblocks come online I'll need a preamp. I will build a lightspeed into that as it is the best.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-l ... ost1273484
Another way to test the system that I have used is to build a fixed shunt volume attenuator. One for each channel. Just takes a total of 4 resistors. 1/4W metal film is perfect. There are lots of sites that can show the values required for a given attenuation value such as -50db.
I can suggest the lightspeed attenuator as a very inexpensive DIY audiophile volume control. It is basically the shunt attenuator using variable resistors. You could power it from the same linear source used for the Alix. Like everything, a cheap 5v walwort will work for the lightspeed, but a well filtered linear supply will kick the music quality up a few notches.
post 939 in this link describes my experience and the circuit used. I am happily using this 5 years later. When my tube based monoblocks come online I'll need a preamp. I will build a lightspeed into that as it is the best.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-l ... ost1273484
@multiblitz, the next version will be sticking with the same kernel & drivers. After that I'll start looking at a build based on a 3.x kernel so hopefully that will improve compatibility with newer boards.
Regarding 64 bit, a 64 bit OS and a 64bit volume control are two entirely different things, and one isn't strictly required for the other. Either way mpd would need to explicitly support a high resolution volume control, switching to a 64bit OS won't make that happen automatically, and it can also be implemented on a 32bit OS. Because the primary benefit of 64bit is more memory address space I have yet to be convinced there is any inherent value in a 64bit OS for audio playback. Anyway, long story short, high res volume is an MPD feature, and you should be making that request there.
Regarding the other requests, most of those will be in the next version. I have not seen any discussions around LAN parameters that make any difference, so no plans to do anything there.
Are you using the SOTM card with the Alix, or was that just with the BioStar?
Regarding 64 bit, a 64 bit OS and a 64bit volume control are two entirely different things, and one isn't strictly required for the other. Either way mpd would need to explicitly support a high resolution volume control, switching to a 64bit OS won't make that happen automatically, and it can also be implemented on a 32bit OS. Because the primary benefit of 64bit is more memory address space I have yet to be convinced there is any inherent value in a 64bit OS for audio playback. Anyway, long story short, high res volume is an MPD feature, and you should be making that request there.
Regarding the other requests, most of those will be in the next version. I have not seen any discussions around LAN parameters that make any difference, so no plans to do anything there.
Are you using the SOTM card with the Alix, or was that just with the BioStar?
I would never use software volume control , that's why I build my DAC with 12 steps passive attenuator (only costs about 25$) on the output.
That SOTM card is sooo expensive. Add Lucien's famous XMOS kit, all will cost about 500$ just for the USB connection only. Lot more expensive than the whole PC itself. Maybe someday I'll get there.
I wonder would it be necessary to have such expensive USB card if we already have the XMOS ?
@Multiblitz: there's alix board with PCI slot as used by Bryston BDP-1 player. Have you tried Win 7 + jplay ? IMHO, it sounds much better than jriver.
That SOTM card is sooo expensive. Add Lucien's famous XMOS kit, all will cost about 500$ just for the USB connection only. Lot more expensive than the whole PC itself. Maybe someday I'll get there.
I wonder would it be necessary to have such expensive USB card if we already have the XMOS ?
@Multiblitz: there's alix board with PCI slot as used by Bryston BDP-1 player. Have you tried Win 7 + jplay ? IMHO, it sounds much better than jriver.