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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Lucid Puppy 5.2.7 RC2
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 18:48    Post subject:  

Quote:
Can someone confirm this is now solved?
I had no luck trying it on a new Atom box, with no internal HDD. Tried all possible bios settings...

Bert, I did create a usb stick that did boot on a machine with no drives present at all--no hard drive, no cd/dvd. That was with luci-265. I made one with an ext4 file system using gparted and Puppy universal Installer and one with a fat32 fs using Bootflash and both booted with no drives present. It was a semi-modern machine with a Gigabyte AM3 motherboard and a Phenom 2 X4.

Who knows though? It is certainly possible that some machines will and some won't.


.

Last edited by playdayz on Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:02; edited 1 time in total
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 18:53    Post subject:  

Quote:
I just don't want us to raise false hopes about any wifi wizardry on my part.

Understood rerwin. I am wondering--we have some extra space--why don't we add some drivers.

Perhaps tempestuous will be kind enough to suggest which ones would give us the best bang for the buck.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5374
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:07    Post subject:  

Bert wrote:
bigpup wrote:

What is the USB device you are using?

Hi Bigpup,

It's a Samsung 2.5" hd in a usb enclosure.
Thanks.

If you have no hard drive.
The computer bios needs to be set to boot from USB.
The USB hard drive I assume needs to be flagged boot.
The universal installer sets up a boot-able flash drive like attached image.
I assume an external USB hard drive would need to be setup like an internal hard drive.
An MBR
A bootloader
An install of Puppy.
sdb1 flash drive.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   29.46 KB
 Viewed   714 Time(s)

sdb1 flash drive.jpg


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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 974

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:09    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
Can someone confirm this is now solved?
I had no luck trying it on a new Atom box, with no internal HDD. Tried all possible bios settings...

Bert, I did create a usb stick that did boot on a machine with no drives present at all--no hard drive, no cd/dvd. That was with luci-265. I made one with an ext4 file system using gparted and Puppy universal Installer and one with a fat32 fs using Bootflash and both booted with no drives present.

Who knows. It is certainly possible that some machines will and some won't.


.

Thank you playdayz.
I also used Luci-265, gparted and ext4. After trying to install with the PUI without result, I tried to install manually.
As I said, this Atom board is new to me. I will continue trying tomorrow. Will also try a usb key. it's about 1.20 AM here and apart from a neighbour's donkey, everyone is asleep in this small street where I live Smile

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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 974

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:18    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:

If you have no hard drive.
The computer bios needs to be set to boot from USB.

Yes, that's how it's set

Quote:
The USB hard drive I assume needs to be flagged boot.

Yes, the partition has a booting flag.
Quote:
The universal installer sets up a boot-able flash drive like attached image.

It did, but Luci-265 didn't boot..
Quote:
I assume an external USB hard drive would need to be setup like an internal hard drive.
An MBR
A bootloader
An install of Puppy.


The MBR is there,
A bootloader? Why in this simple constellation (one usb HD, one OS, no internal HD, no CD/DVD drives)?

Thanks bigpup!

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:22    Post subject:  

Bert, Did you try BootFlash install puppy to USB?
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1536
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:22    Post subject:  

[quote="playdayz"]
Quote:
I am wondering--we have some extra space--why don't we add some drivers.

Perhaps tempestuous will be kind enough to suggest which ones would give us the best bang for the buck.

You are reading my mind. I considered suggesting it, but figured you probably thought of it, too. What do you think about adding them to a zdrv SFS file, so they don't go into RAM? Even if that is not done, one could remaster and put all of the drivers in zdrv -- that is probably the solution to excessive size.

BTW, the N300 is not in his driver, so would need to be added, if possible.
Richard
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:56    Post subject:  

Quote:
You are reading my mind. I considered suggesting it, but figured you probably thought of it, too. What do you think about adding them to a zdrv SFS file, so they don't go into RAM? Even if that is not done, one could remaster and put all of the drivers in zdrv -- that is probably the solution to excessive size.

I am glad that makes sense to you. However, we have not had good experience with zdrv's. What we found was that using one caused many machines to have trouble booting. I don't think we will do it. Another option is to exceed 128MB which causes the sfs not to load into ram on a 256MB ram machine--but that is another priority of ours. Ideal would be to find a combination of drivers that will fit into the 2+MB that we have free that will give us some new capabilities. Thanks.
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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 22:39    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
You are reading my mind. I considered suggesting it, but figured you probably thought of it, too. What do you think about adding them to a zdrv SFS file, so they don't go into RAM? Even if that is not done, one could remaster and put all of the drivers in zdrv -- that is probably the solution to excessive size.

I am glad that makes sense to you. However, we have not had good experience with zdrv's. What we found was that using one caused many machines to have trouble booting. I don't think we will do it. Another option is to exceed 128MB which causes the sfs not to load into ram on a 256MB ram machine--but that is another priority of ours. Ideal would be to find a combination of drivers that will fit into the 2+MB that we have free that will give us some new capabilities. Thanks.


playdayz, don't have that broad view of which drivers will give the most bang for the buck and hate the idea of making compensations for broadcom's poor attention to detail. Around these parts new HP's come with wl.ko driver for better or worse. Personally, can remember when HP's were clearly second class and reflected in the price. Now, since I own one can say they are just overpriced second class.

oops, sound a bit bitter. will do my due diligence on the next box.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5374
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 23:14    Post subject:  

I would say driver support for hardware used to connect to the internet is top priority.
If you can get online you can download other stuff you may need.
Quickpet and choose a browser are good examples.

I see posts now talking about running Puppy on Intel core i7 processors and 8GB of memory on 1TB hard drives.
Having problems with CPU integrated graphics and using the latest video cards from Nvidia and ATI.

The one big problem:
I can not get on the internet with this new whatever device because Puppy does not see it or does not know how to operate it.
Most likely Puppy does not know about the device or have a driver for it.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 23:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
The one big problem:
I can not get on the internet with this new whatever device because Puppy does not see it or does not know how to operate it.

So you are in favor of more drivers? Wink To be honest BP, it is a bit discouraging, but perhaps if we look at adding some we will be in good shape.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5374
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 00:16    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
The one big problem:
I can not get on the internet with this new whatever device because Puppy does not see it or does not know how to operate it.

So you are in favor of more drivers? Wink To be honest BP, it is a bit discouraging, but perhaps if we look at adding some we will be in good shape.

Well you know, that other operating system comes out with a new version that is basically updated support for new hardware. They change the looks to make you think you are getting something new.
They keep the old stuff and add new support.
Probably why it is 4GB in size.
Amazing Puppy can do it with 129MB.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 00:31    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Bert wrote:
bigpup wrote:

What is the USB device you are using?

Hi Bigpup,

It's a Samsung 2.5" hd in a usb enclosure.
Thanks.


I assume an external USB hard drive would need to be setup like an internal hard drive.
An MBR
A bootloader
An install of Puppy.


Not really;
The external USB hdd works just like USB flash.
No MBR needed.

Making one bootable can be problematic.

I usually download the iso, mount it, and run bootflash.
This often doesn't work from a Lupu install.
It works fine from my Wary512 install.
Just tried with 265; worked fine.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5374
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 00:56    Post subject:  

rjbrewer wrote:
Not really;
The external USB hdd works just like USB flash.
No MBR needed.

Making one bootable can be problematic.

I usually download the iso, mount it, and run bootflash.
This often doesn't work from a Lupu install.
It works fine from my Wary512 install.
Just tried with 265; worked fine.

I have never done a USB hard drive so was not sure.
Knew I would fire up someone who has done it with that statement.
Sounded like he had done what you are saying already.
Never know what may work sometimes.
Still do not see why he is having problems.
Hope you can help.
Thanks for the correction!

But why does universal installer say this in the process?
MBR load from universal installer.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   67.83 KB
 Viewed   673 Time(s)

MBR load from universal installer.jpg


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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 01:37    Post subject:  

Bigpup;

I don't really know why it's called MBR, as it's syslinux that does
the booting on my vfat drives.
"pmedia=usbflash" or "pmedia=usbhd"

If I use the universal installer instead of bootflash it may need
the mbr.bin choice sometimes.

Maybe having a ext. format makes a difference; I'll give it a try.

edit:

Was not able to make a bootable usb drive from a full install using
the iso and universal installer.

Universal installer did work fine from live cd.
Used an ext2 format without problems and default in mbr choices.
Ext2 using isolinux.conf and extlinux.conf instead of syslinux that
vfat would use.

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Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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