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Lucid Puppy 5.2.7 RC2
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 11:23    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Well. almost everything inside it matters.

Thanks pemasu, I decided that was a bad idea I had Wink As long as it has been installing correctly, that is alI I as worried about. I am about to build with the version 6 you posted. Thanks.
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pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5465
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 11:44    Post_subject:  

Don570 created pinstall.sh script has been done properly with woof building in mind.
He has planned that his right click pet is used with new builds.
So...what I understand there is everywhere pointing to the working directory so that the changes which it made happens in woof directory.
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ASRI éducation


Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 12:26    Post_subject:  

@ playdayz
In talking to Bert, he taught me that the version of mplayer gnome was not the same between 266 and 526.
266 => 1.0.4 gnome mplayer
526rc => 1.0.3 gnome mplayer
What is the reason for this change in version?
Cheers,
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 12:43    Post_subject:  

Quote:
@ playdayz
In talking to Bert, he taught me that the version of mplayer gnome was not the same between 266 and 526.
266 => 1.0.4 gnome mplayer
526rc => 1.0.3 gnome mplayer
What is the reason for this change in version?

The pursuit of the elusive vdpau message was the basic reason. It seemed that 1.0.3 did not generate that message, but 1.0.4 did, so I reverted. I have learned more and the version I am currently building has 1.0.4 again.

Quote:
Don570 created pinstall.sh script has been done properly with woof building in mind.


pemasu, I have it installed and it is looking good. Thanks for putting up with me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe the last question, wouldn't that be great? Does anyone know why there are two instances of pfbpanel running and one of fbpanel? I am not saying it is an error or even that it needs fixing, just curious. It has not presented any problem I am aware of. Thanks.

Quote:
someone asked why the enxt version will be 5.2.7 instead of 5.2.6 rc2.


Because the way we do it, there is already a lupu-526 on the loose--hopefully only among us testers. But for safety the next will be 5.2.7. We allowed for that, just in case Wink
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 13:08    Post_subject:  

Certainly, one of those instances of pfbpanel will be left over from the fixmenus script run from the startup folder.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 13:15    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Certainly, one of those instances of pfbpanel will be left over from the fixmenus script run from the startup folder.

As I say, I have seen no problems. Should pfbpanel exit when done, or does it need to stay running? Sometimes also, the taskmanagers will show two instances, but it is really only one, two threads or something.
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 13:18    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
Certainly, one of those instances of pfbpanel will be left over from the fixmenus script run from the startup folder.

As I say, I have seen no problems. Should pfbpanel exit when done, or does it need to stay running? Sometimes also, the taskmanagers will show two instances, but it is really only one, two threads or something.


Pfbpanel only sets up the configuration initially and then does nothing further, so it can be killed until required again.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5499
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 13:21    Post_subject:  

Hogweed wrote:
Wondering whether to try a frugal upgrade of my 5.2 config. Can someone tell me what exactly a frugal upgrade of the personal save file does? Does it just change a version number or does it attempt to detect if newer versions are installed by the upgrades than I might have in my personal files (or older versions installed over my savefile updates)?

A quick search suggests there might be problems but I'm not clear if these are unusual exceptions or the norm.

Also can I then just upgrade from 5.2.6RC to the final release?

Or am I better just to do a fresh installation and reinstall/migrate what I need. Sorry for these simple questions but I've never upgraded before and am just wondering what to expect.


Yes you should be able to upgrade a frugal save file from version 5.2 to 5.2.6rc and then to 5.2.6 final.

Frugal save file upgrades can only be done to Puppy in same series.
Puppy5 to Puppy 5.2, but not Puppy 4.1 to Puppy 5.0


Because 5.2.6rc is a test of the final version and some things broken have been found. I would not upgrade your working 5.2 with it.
The final version of 5.2.6 will be out soon. Wait for that before upgrading.

What happens when you upgrade a frugal install save file?
This is what should happen. The key word is should.

The save file data is upgraded to work with the newer version of Puppy and any newer program versions that come with the newer version of Puppy.

If a program is in the new version, but was not in the old version. The save file would not contain any data to update or configuration data for that new program. That program would be a fresh run the first time.

Any programs in the save file that are not part of the newer version of Puppy will stay as they are.

There is always the chance that a newer version, of a Puppy series, will have changes in it, that will conflict with a program you have added to Puppy.

For the most part it works fine to upgrade the save file with a newer version of Puppy. Just not 100% you will not have little issues caused by the upgrade.

So far with 5.2.6rc
You get two console icons on desktop after the upgrade. Just have to delete the one you do not want or keep them both.
Desktop icons may go back to default, if you made custom changes.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5499
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 14:08    Post_subject:  

Playdayz,
Quote:
Does anyone know why there are two instances of pfbpanel running and one of fbpanel?

pfbpanel - is variables created at bootup by 'init' in initramfs...

On bootup, seems I notice on first seeing desktop, the taskbar is at the bottom, and a few seconds later, it like resets.
Could this be why?

Also between the two pfbpanels the freememapplet_tray starts up.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 14:21    Post_subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Playdayz,
Quote:
Does anyone know why there are two instances of pfbpanel running and one of fbpanel?

pfbpanel - is variables created at bootup by 'init' in initramfs...

On bootup, seems I notice on first seeing desktop, the taskbar is at the bottom, and a few seconds later, it like resets.
Could this be why?

Also between the two pfbpanels the freememapplet_tray starts up.


That is because pfbpanel re-writes the default profile when fixmenus runs from the entry in the startup folder. Fixmenus 'calls' pfbpanel. Hope that is the right term.....

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 14:39    Post_subject:  

Quote:
On bootup, seems I notice on first seeing desktop, the taskbar is at the bottom, and a few seconds later, it like resets.
Could this be why?

It could be. There is a script in startup that runs fixmenus. The reason is that if a pet has been installed and then the user exits X *before* fixmenus has finished running to update things for the pet menu entry etc, then the fbpanel menu will be messed up. This is not just theoretical---I saw it happen several times which is why I did the Startup script. Not the most elegant solution I am sure, but it works.
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 15:10    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
On bootup, seems I notice on first seeing desktop, the taskbar is at the bottom, and a few seconds later, it like resets.
Could this be why?

It could be. There is a script in startup that runs fixmenus. The reason is that if a pet has been installed and then the user exits X *before* fixmenus has finished running to update things for the pet menu entry etc, then the fbpanel menu will be messed up. This is not just theoretical---I saw it happen several times which is why I did the Startup script. Not the most elegant solution I am sure, but it works.


Sometimes you just have to go with what works Smile

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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1551
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 16:47    Post_subject:  

Hogweed wrote:
Been using Lupu 5.2 (with update 1) since it came out and have tested 5.26RC on multiseesion DVD - seems fine.

Wondering whether to try a frugal upgrade of my 5.2 config. Can someone tell me what exactly a frugal upgrade of the personal save file does? Does it just change a version number or does it attempt to detect if newer versions are installed by the upgrades than I might have in my personal files (or older versions installed over my savefile updates)?

A quick search suggests there might be problems but I'm not clear if these are unusual exceptions or the norm.

Obviously I would back up my 1G save file first but I'm just wondering what to expect from a frugal upgrade from 5.2 to 5.2.6

Also can I then just upgrade from 5.2.6RC to the final release?

Or am I better just to do a fresh installation and reinstall/migrate what I need. Sorry for these simple questions but I've never upgraded before and am just wondering what to expect.

Your question is something every upgrader needs to know. Thank you for bringing it up.

As the person who has most recently maintained the update function, I do not believe that the newer versions of programs you have installed will replace your version. It simply keeps what you have in the pupsave, but ensures that the new versions of puppy components are substituted for any in the pupsave file.

Essentially, the updater will not delete your old app versions, which should override the newer versions. I don't think that is what you want to have happen. Therefore, I recommend making a copy of the old pupsave in the old puppy, then work with one of them for the upgrade. It might get tedious, but I suggest determining which of your installed apps have newer versions in the new puppy, and uninstalling them from the old pupsave. However, any data they may have saved may remain -- that could be good or bad.

In summary, an upgrade keeps everything you have in your "personal storage" except for puppy itself. It does not examine your installed packages to determine what new packages might replace old ones, nor does it have any way of knowing that.
Quote:
Or am I better just to do a fresh installation and reinstall/migrate what I need.
That would be safer.

Richard
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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 16:51    Post_subject: Right clicks  

Both the "Customise" option in the top-level Rox right-click menu and the "Customise" in the "open-with" submenu work in exactly the same way. The "helpful" pop-up message panel for the submenu is a bit longer, but not much more informative, apart from that there is no difference in how they work. How can one possibly be said to be easier than the other?

Rox "SentTo" was presumably renamed to "Open-with" to make ex-Windows users feel at home. Most of us will have had a few year's experience in Windows, so it is important that any Puppy "Open-with" behaves reasonably like the Windows one if the new user is not to be confused and irritated. Windows' "Open-with" is mime-type specific. Therefore putting items in the base ...."Open-with" directory is not merely daft but, because it is un-Windows-like, it is also misleading. For that reason alone, the lower-level "Customise" needs booting. For the very few occasions where using the base directory is indicated,
Right-click -> "Customise -> UP-arrow
isn't exactly hard to do.

Both "Customise" options "help" pop-ups and the Rox manual are seriously defective in that they don't tell the full story. It is not sufficient to drag in just any application file. This will only work where the application expects the first parameter to be the filename. Many do not work that way, including pfind and gdmap and most linux utilities. These must be wrapped, and the best solution is to stick to the way the right-clicks pet has done it, for consistency and debug-ability. This is not trivial for the new user. Both "Customise" options suck new users into thinking that things are easy and set them up for possible failure. Not nice user interfacing.

Now that right-clicks has been properly implemented (Thanks Pemasu and Don570), there is very little need it any for customistaion by noobs. It needs better than noob skills to do. Therefore, for the rare cases where it is needed, I think that it would be better to put a good "Howto' into Puppy Help 101 and dispense with both snare-and-delusion "Customise" options altogether.

"Open-with" acts like it does in Windows if the sub-menus are properly populated, which they will be in 526. However, it merely repeats the info in the top-level right-click, then adds any nonsense left behind in the base directory. Since its "Customise" option is misleading and not necessary and needs an extra click what is its point, apart from to mislead and confuse? (Requiring Shift-click for basic functionality is not good GUI)

Proper right-click behaviour will be part of Puppy 526's basic infra-structure. Hopefully this major advance in usability will be carried forward into 5.3 and beyond. It is most desirable that pets and sfs files in the repository don't break it. Hence, in addition to setting up menus, the right clicks should be set up automatically by the each pet or sfs, when this is appropriate.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1857
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul 2011, 17:43    Post_subject: Re: Right clicks  

Snail wrote:
I think that it would be better to put a good "Howto' into Puppy Help 101 and dispense with both snare-and-delusion "Customise" options altogether.


Snail if you write the help I will include it in the next version.

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