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525 frugal install - no Save file - radeon driver [Solved]
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 652
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 20:17    Post_subject:  

G'day bigpup & Karl Godt,

Thank you for your continued interest in my ATI graphic card problem.

I'll check and report on Karl's extensive suggestions a bit later as I will try a few more Pups as suggested (I have a lot). I have looked in /sys/classes/backlight and it's empty (using Lupu-525 at the moment). I'll also compare turning off the backlight on my laptop to see if the symptoms are the same as these on my desktop. I may even try a different monitor to see what happens.

bigpup,
ATI Catalyst Control Center is present on my Lupu-525 menu options and when clicked, I get a box with the title message "Initialisation error" saying the ATI Graphics driver is not loaded or the "driver is not functioning properly".
glxgears gave a segmentation error in this Full lupu-525, but I have had gears running in another new Pup - one of tazoc's Lighthouses if I'm remembering correctly - I'll check which and report back. I'll confirm or not that even with the gears running, I lose the monitor if I try to run xorgwizard or drop to the command prompt from within the Pup.

ATI/radeon seems not just spotty, I'm thinking patchy Smile .

David S.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5237
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 20:42    Post_subject:  

davids45 wrote:
G'day bigpup & Karl Godt,

Thank you for your continued interest in my ATI graphic card problem.
bigpup,
ATI Catalyst Control Center is present on my Lupu-525 menu options and when clicked, I get a box with the title message "Initialisation error" saying the ATI Graphics driver is not loaded or the "driver is not functioning properly".
glxgears gave a segmentation error in this Full lupu-525, but I have had gears running in another new Pup - one of tazoc's Lighthouses if I'm remembering correctly - I'll check which and report back. I'll confirm or not that even with the gears running, I lose the monitor if I try to run xorgwizard or drop to the command prompt from within the Pup.

ATI/radeon seems not just spotty, I'm thinking patchy Smile .

David S.

You are not using the ATI driver now. You are using the Radeon driver.
The ATI Control Center will not work with the Radeon driver.
What I am telling you is to reinstall the ATI Catalyst driver with Quickpet and you will be using the ATI driver.
My previous post tells you how it will work.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 652
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 22:21    Post_subject:  

G'day bigpup,

Thank you for your persistence with me and my problem - I now have the ATI Catalyst Centre and the gears working by re-installing the ATI-fglrx Pet and re-booting.

In Lupu-525, I can drop to the commmand prompt from the Shutdown menu and see the text and then get back to full graphics with 'xwin'.

But if I try 'xorgwizard' at the prompt or from the wizard menu, I lose the ATI driver and revert to the radeon driver. And it's after that that I get the previously reported "Initialisation error" dialog box trying to run the ATI Catalyst Centre, and the loss of graphics when trying to get to the command prompt or Save-file option. Fixed each time so far by again installing the ATI-fglrx pet and re-booting.

I now appreciate your warning about not using the xorgwizard, not at all, not before or not after the ATI installation.

So, with a new Pup, running from a Live-CD and wanting a Frugal install, can I somehow install the ATI-fglrx pet to get the create-a-Save-file option on first shut-down, given I need to re-boot to activate the ATI-fglrx driver? I've a couple of the latest Pups isos (midnightsun003 and rexbang-4) to try and see how they go.

David S.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 22:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
So, with a new Pup, running from a Live-CD and wanting a Frugal install, can I somehow install the ATI-fglrx pet to get the create-a-Save-file option on first shut-down, given I need to re-boot to activate the ATI-fglrx driver?

I see. Did you try the Xorg_High driver--that only needs a restart of the X-server. But am I right that even a restart of X gives the black screen?

With the Xorg_High driver, btw, you do not need to reboot, but only to restart the X-server.

You have a new radeon card. I have a bad feeling that neither might support it--what we need is the latest ATI Catalyst driver.

It might help if you could somehow create an xorg.conf, but that is what xorgwizard does. Anyway, if you could then you could change the driver from radeon to radeonhd--which *might* help.

Are you booting from CD or a grub menu.lst. If from a CD, try to enter
Code:
puppy radeon.modeset=1
or in the menu.lst add radeon.modeset=1 to the boot options. This will probably be worse than ever Wink but who knows?

Try radeon.modeset=0 also.

One of us will try to compile the latest ATI Catalyst--if I forget please pm me. Thanks.

I gather that xorgwizard does not run at all--if it does, then choose Choose and enter the radeonhd driver.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5237
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 22:46    Post_subject:  

I have an ATI card similar to yours.
The pain of ATI graphics cards in Lunux

For black screen at shutdown:
Boot with the option puppy pfix=nox
This will get you to a prompt
Type xorgwizrd
Choose Vesa driver
Choose a resolution that just works
This will give you basic graphics that will work.

You need the ATI Catalyst Driver installed to get this graphics card to work proper. Radeon driver will not do it.
The below info will get you there.

All of this is about Lucid Puppy 5.2.5.

Please read and understand.

Before installing the ATI Catalyst Driver you can use Xorgwizard. It works fine with other drivers.

After installing the ATI Catalyst Driver you can not use Xorgwizard. The ATI driver will not work with xorgwizard!!
You have to use ATI Catalyst Control Center to change settings.

You have seen what will happen.

For frugal installs:
Do the frugal install
After rebooting and running the frugal install the first time.
Reboot to be asked to make save file for frugal install.
After reboot into frugal install the second time you will be using a save file specific to the frugal install.
That is when you can install the ATI Catalyst driver and reboot the frugal install.
Now the frugal install will be using the ATI Driver.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 652
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Wed 06 Jul 2011, 00:28    Post_subject:  

G'day again,
Thank you for any continued interest in my black-screen problem/saga with this ATI HD5450 radeon card.
I haven't yet tried your very latest suggestions but will when I have a go with luci-260 and drakepup.

What I have done over the last day is see what happens when I run the ATI_fglrx-10.10-Lucid.pet (ATI-Catalyst pet) in my various Full and Frugal Pups already on this computer.

Here's my list of results.

Rexbang Full = successful ATI-lucid pet install - can drop to command prompt and see text and get back to graphics, ATI Catalyst menu works

Snowpup020, Icepup014, Icepup015, Midnightsun002, Fulls = before adding ATI pet, had dead/black screen on trying command prompt but could recover by typing 'xwin' to black screen, driver reported as 'radeon'; installing ATI pet & rebooting then allowed command prompt and shut-down to show text but ATI Catalyst menu did not run, driver now reported as something like 'ATI-firegl (II)...'.

SPup100, Spup122 Fulls = did not accept the ATI-lucid driver pet, so were restored easily by running xorgwizard on a reboot

KLP006, Wary512 Fulls: before = could only get 1280x1024 distended graphics - 1600x900 failed to display (xorgwizard using vesa default?) but normal command prompt and shut down text displayed; installed ATI-lucid pet and re-booted = now display is 1600x900 and shut-down still has text! ATI Catalyst listed on menu but did not run.

Puppy 421 Full: before=1280x1024 graphics but shut-down text displayed; ran the ATI-lucid pet and rebooted - now getting 1600x900 display and shut-down text present! ATI Catalyst menu listed did not run.

Frugals - the actual problem for me - where the lack of text during shut-down prevented this computer set-up creating a Save file using the Universal Installer in the normal manner (that is, after it installed the three files to a new sub-directory). I had fixed this by manually creating an empty Save file or copying an old one into the new sub-directory and going through the set-up process again.

So the following Frugal tests were all with Save-File-fixed working Frugals from my Frugals partition.

MidnightsunPups 002 & 003: before=using radeon driver, 1600x900, dead/black screen for shut-down or command prompt; after installing ATI-lucid pet = new driver reported "ATI-Firegl (II).." but ATI Catalyst menu does not run, typing 'amdcccle' at terminal reported a segmentation fault. But display is fine at 1600x900 and text is shown at shut-down and command prompt. So I'm calling this a 'retro'-fix

Fluppy 013 - didn't try the ATI-luci pet as Fluppy reported using a mesa driver - Fluppy gave good 1600x900 graphics and good Save file creation during its Frugal install (as far as I can recall)

Rexbangs 2 & 3: ATI-lucid pet fixed black-screen problem, ATI Catalyst menu runs, good 1600x900 graphics

Slickpup-525, Lucid-525: ATI-lucid pet fixed black-screen problem, ATI Catalyst menu runs, good 1600x900 graphics

Puppy 421: before only 1280x1024 graphics but could make Save file; after ATI-pet = 1600x900 graphics and text still good at shut-down

Quirky-130: good improvement like Puppy 421, but took two install&reboot tries to get 1600x900 display - I had to increase existing Save file size at same time as first try with the ATI pet, so doing two-things-at-once may have upset the ATI-pet; ATI Catalyst does not run.

Dpup485: graphics 1280x1024 with text displayed during shut-down; two tries installing ATI-pet but resulted in display failure; deleted affected Save file and on re-boot OK with a fresh Save file but still only 1280x1024 possible from xorgwizard.

Wary512: like the Wary Full install, better graphics after installing ATI-lucid pet with shut-down text visible, ATI Catalyst menu fails to run.

Wary511Q: tried installing ATI-lucid pet three times before getting 1600x900 graphics from default 1280x1024; text shows on shutting down, ATI Catalyst menu doesn't run.

Icepups 015, 014: initial = radeon driver, 1600x900, but no text display on shut-down; ATI-lucid pet installed & rebooted = same radeon driver listed but did get text on shut-down, ATI Catalyst menu did not run

Macpup525: before=radeon driver listed, no text during log-off ('xwin' recovers display) or shut-down; ATI-lucid pet install froze macpup so deleted affected Save file.

Snowpups 019, 017, 012: all good initial 1600x900 display with radeon driver, but no text on log-off (all OK again if 'xwin' typed to black/dead screen), no text during shut-down; installing ATI-lucid pet = now have a new "ATI-Firegl (II)..." driver listed (but not with snowpup012), still good 1600x900, and now have normal text on log-off or shut-down.
NB: Found I could get the desired log-off or shut-down text screen change by just using 'restart-X' after installing the ATI pet - here the driver was still listed as the starting 'radeon'; a full 're-boot' was still good with the text/display failure on shut-down still fixed.

KindaLucidPup006: like the klp006 Full, I could get the correct 1600x900 graphics after installing the ATI-lucid pet from the initial 1280x1024 default set-up.

Lucid-525 Retro: before = had 1600x900 but no text on shut-down; after two ATI-lucid pet installs = get text on shut-down but listed driver not the long "Firegl... " and the ATI-Catalyst menu doesn't run.

Summarising, in many existing Full and Frugal installs, by replacing the default radeon driver, the ATI-lucid pet has generally fixed the no-text at log-off/command prompt and at shut down, and given the correct 1600x900 display on this LED monitor.

I really quite happy that most already installed Pups now are displaying as well as I could expect on this desktop computer, even that old faithful 4.2.1.

But I still have to work out if I can somehow use the ATI-lucid pet with a new Pup Live-CD to get the monitor text display to keep working so I can create a "normal" Save file during that first shut-down/re-boot of a Frugal install.

Maybe installing the pet and just doing a "re-start X" or "startx" will do the trick. I don't know why some installs took several tries before it worked.

I see lupu-260's finished downloading. And now there's Drake-pup too to play with.

David S.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5237
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 06 Jul 2011, 02:41    Post_subject:  

That is a lot of testing.

I guess I should of told you that the ATI Catalyst Driver in Lucid Puppy is compiled for Lucid Puppy.
Not meant to work in other versions of Puppy.

If a Puppy derivative is just a remaster of Lucid Puppy, with some added programs or cosmetic changes, good chance it will work.

The big issue is what Linux Kernel is being used.
That is why it did not work in Lucid 525 Retro. Different Linux Kernel.
Lucid 525 Retro was a quick fix, for people with really old hardware.

Graphic drivers have to be compiled for each version series of Puppy to work properly. Tied to the Linux kernel used.

This is how you have to get drivers and compile them.
This is for Nvidia drivers , but the process is about the same for ATI.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=49384

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 652
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2011, 02:53    Post_subject:
Sub_title: pretty much solved now I know what's happening
 

G'day,

With some confidence that I could predict what would happen, and how to work-around my problem, I have just tried three new Pups as first Frugal installs (the problem case) and then with the Full (problem happens, but doesn't stop install success).

First the new Drake Pup. Complete success both Frugal and Full - no loss of display at crucial stages during install, good 1600x900. So I did not try installing the ATI-lucid driver. Of course, this Drake is not Lucid-based so its radeon driver looked faultless on my hardware - 1600x900 straight up. And the magician's new bird really flies.

Next, Rexbang-2.4. Live CD, pfix=ram, goes to radeon driver, 1600x900 display. Tried Frugal install. Loss of display (dead/black screen, "no DVI signal" but computer whirring away) with Universal install as soon as I tried to re-boot to create a Save file. Re-started with 'pfix=ram', same radeon driver; but installed the ATI_fglrx-10.10-Lucid.pet (ATI-Catalyst pet) and just 'restarted-X'. Now hitting 'reboot', I saw text messages - the display did not 'die', and I could create a new Save file in the rexbang24 subdirectory. In brief, the ATI driver visually is as good as the default radeon but does not cause failure of the display when going to the command prompt or reboot. The fancy ATI Catalyst menu package works also.

A new Full install of Rexbang24 showed the same behaviour - with the default radeon driver, good display at first but video failure as soon as I drop to the command prompt or reboot. Installing the ATI-fglrx pet and re-starting X fixed the graphic loss.

Next the new Luci-260. Just like rexbang24, LiveCD and Universal Installer, no Save file possible through loss of monitor signal - dead black screen when trying to reboot, or just going to the command prompt - typing 'xwin' to the black screen restored the radeon display. Installed the ATI_fglrx-10.10-Lucid.pet (ATI-Catalyst pet) and restarting X activated the new driver and the loss of display did not occur thereafter. Both the 260 Frugal and the Full install have gone well - typing now from the Full Luci-260 in Seamonkey-2.0.13.

So this problem in my particular desktop hardware is now fixable when found.

One last puzzlement - how did installing the ATI_fglrx-10.10-Lucid.pet give me the correct 1600x900 displays with Puppy-4.2, klp006 and Wary-5.1.x after being stuck with them having xorgwizard-defaulted 1280x1024? These Pups, as far as I know, are not lucid-based and are of different kernels? Admittedly, some took several pet-install tries to come good, another thing to puzzle over, if I really wanted to.

Ah, computers.......

David S.
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