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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 30 Oct 2011, 05:34    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
Things i miss from puppy. Ace of penguins and connect five. Pmount, pfind, webcam. Make the menu pretty. Radky's Pupsnap screen capture and edit. Autologin and auto startx.


hi aarf...

apt-get install ace-of-penguins <---- This will be included
apt-get install pente bovo <---- These are 2 connect 5 games in the debian repo, bovo seems to look nicer and pente is fairly simple .... which one would you prefer?

some form of webcam suite will be added as well im currently testing 5 or so of them at the moment

the auto startx / autologin isnt something i can setup in this pussyxtra-beta.squashfs , that is something that ill have to setup in the filesystem.squashfs... this file will also be overhauled before we hit actual beta.

Currently all the auto startx options backfire because as soon as you exit the X session, it loads again so you can never really get to the console. You can, however edit your boot code in grub or on the cdrom or usb install in live.cfg in the syslinux or isolinux dirs of your live media and remove the: noautologin boot tag, this will auto log you in and startx but as the default user called user. This is ok till you wanna run a program because everything in pussy has been installed as root and user has no access to it. You can switch to root once logged in with the: sudo -i command or su root. But to make your X session run as root you will need to exit to console then su to root then startx and then your all ok.

What i am planning for the beta is to have extra options at boot, you can boot to X or boot to console with a propper login screen. .... no one can login remotely via a network as root without the password and this will remain intact.

the option for booting directly to X as root, without X annoyingly starting again everytime you exit it will get added to Pussy when i overhaul the filesystem.squashfs but this might not happen for another month or so.

Due to responses from my post asking for people to suggest packages for inclusion, im also looking at adding skype, dvd/ cdrom ripping, movie editing etc etc.... it may take longer than i previously planned to redo this squashfs file ... due to aot of testing involved but it will be soon.
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Sun 30 Oct 2011, 10:16    Post subject:  

Gtkballs is the connect 5 from Puppeee. When i apt-get anything i get the previously posted output about unmet dependencies. So i abort for now.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 30 Oct 2011, 11:36    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
Gtkballs is the connect 5 from Puppeee. When i apt-get anything i get the previously posted output about unmet dependencies. So i abort for now.


cool, gtkballs is only 900k and ill include it.

about your apt problem, have you ran:

apt-get update

This updates the package list, without doing this, everything will come up as package no found like in your other post. Because the list changes all the time, its impossible to ship pussy with the latest list, and only the latest will work properly. Also if you want to install something but dont know the exact package name then goto http://packages.debian.org and search for the package you can search by package name or description also by filenames in the package. Whatever is on that site in the queeze (stable) section, take note of the exact package name and use that in your apt-get. Also there are 2 tricks i find useful: --no-install-recommends command makes apt-get only install needed package and dependencies, not all the recommended packages aswell... sometimes without specifying that, it tends to want to install lots of stupid stuff like for example if you install something that is mainly for KDE or GNOME, it might decide to install half of the KDE desktop environment when it doesnt need to.

example: apt-get --no-install-recommends install gtkballs

And if you want to j ust download all the debs for a package and dont want to install it (if you want to burn a package and everything else that is needed to CDROM to keep as a backup or to install later or on other debian computers without internet access.. for example..) then use the -d tag with apt-get. All the debs will be saved to /var/cache/apt/archives/ .

example: apt-get install -d gktballs

Also note that even when you dont use the -d tag, all the debs that apt-get ever download, ie. if you ever use apt-get to install anything at all.... will get saved to /var/cache/apt/archives/ and they will still remain there after the program is installed. So after a apt-getting spree its good to delete the contents of /var/cache/apt/archives/ after you install stuff. The catroll-panel --> cleanup --> cleanup remove files option empties this dir as well, so you can just use that after you use apt so you dont waste the space in your save file.

if this still doesnt work after the apt-get update then please let me know as we have to get it sorted, apt-getting programs is 80% of the entire reason for pussies existence... we cant have any faithful testers like yourself using a pussy with broken apt-get... you might as well be using a cat with no tail or whiskers or something. Also if there is something causing it then we should document its cause so that other users will know how to fix or how to avoid breaking apt-get....

in the meantime if you really want to install a program and apt isnt working you can goto http://packages.debian.org and download what you need then open a terminal in the download dir and run: dpkg --install *
this will install all debs in the directory or you can use: dpkg --install filename.deb

dpkg uses the same system as apt-get... like apt-get actuall uses dpkg to install and then enter into a "status" file all the package names and deps etc on your system. Using dpkg to install stuff doesnt mess up your apt-get system.

but ofcause its best that we fix your apt-get. i kinda included the info about dpkg for other readers of the forum as well, im not like trying to lecture you....
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun 30 Oct 2011, 17:04    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
we could include all the compiling stuff like puppies devx,


Yes. Please include the dev stuff.

Also for consideration:

mdadm

SmartMonTools
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontools/

GsmartControl
http://gsmartcontrol.berlios.de/home/index.php/en/Home

hdparm
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hdparm/

Webmin
http://www.webmin.com/standard.html

Thanks, Brenton
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 05:08    Post subject:  

ill definately include hdparm, i have seen and used webmin before, ill take a look at what is involved in introducing that to pussy... it may be included in the server version of pussy depending on what is involved.

i need to do check out the other things you have mentioned as im not familiar with them yet

thanks for your suggestions.
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 07:50    Post subject:  

i think it is the /drive/addons/dialup-pppoe-install.sh, that is causing the unmet packages but i cant check it because before i can apt-get update, i must use wvdial. you need to remove the ) and the ( before you can run/install dialup-pppoe-install.sh
Code:
sh-4.1# md5sum *
ae55d14d796070455dd909a77f30ac7d  filesystem.squashfs
16a091d4e2aa347f3badef825adf3d32  initrd.img
d9324e63272cca9bfddf1ba8c78c8994  pussyos-beta.squashfs
 
fca1c3de5822e2c9d9ed17239911ffff  seamonkey.squashfs
82c5831721e6ff9d069887207976ba1e  vmlinuz


Code:
root@meow:~# apt-get install gtkballs
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   Reading state information... Done
You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 linux-wlan-ng-firmware : Depends: linux-wlan-ng (>= 0.2.9+dfsg-4) but it is not going to be installed
                          Depends: linux-wlan-ng-source (>= 0.2.9+dfsg-4) but it is not going to be installed
                          Depends: build-essential but it is not going to be installed
                          Depends: debhelper but it is not going to be installed
                          Depends: subversion but it is not going to be installed
                          Depends: fakeroot but it is not going to be installed
 modconf : Depends: whiptail but it is not going to be installed or
                    whiptail-provider
 pppoeconf : Depends: whiptail-provider or
                      whiptail but it is not going to be installed
             Depends: gettext-base (>= 0.13) but it is not going to be installed
             Recommends: locales
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
root@meow:~# apt-get -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  autopoint binutils bsdmainutils build-essential debhelper dpkg-dev fakeroot
  g++ g++-4.4 gcc gcc-4.4 gettext gettext-base git groff-base html2text
  intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
 Suggested packages:
  binutils-doc wamerican wordlist whois vacation dh-make debian-keyring
  g++-multilib g++-4.4-multilib gcc-4.4-doc libstdc++6-4.4-dbg gcc-multilib
  autoconf automake1.9 libtool flex bison gdb gcc-doc gcc-4.4-multilib
  libmudflap0-4.4-dev gcc-4.4-locales libgcc1-dbg libgomp1-dbg libmudflap0-dbg
  libcloog-ppl0 libppl-c2 libppl7 gettext-doc git-doc git-arch git-cvs git-svn
  git-email git-daemon-run git-gui gitk gitweb groff glibc-doc
  libstdc++6-4.4-doc kernel-package make-doc man-browser ed diffutils-doc
  libmail-box-perl subversion-tools db4.8-util
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  autopoint binutils bsdmainutils build-essential debhelper dpkg-dev fakeroot
  g++ g++-4.4 gcc gcc-4.4 gettext gettext-base git groff-base html2text
  intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
0 upgraded, 51 newly installed, 0 to remove and 55 not upgraded.   

3 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 38.8 MB of archives.
After this operation, 112 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
Abort.
root@meow:~#

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 07:55    Post subject:  

i just noticed something cool.

when you are at the console in pussy and have not started an X session, its quite possible to run an X application without a window manager or anything else taking up your memory.

xinit /www/seamonkey/seamonkey <---- if browser is installed

so basicly use xinit <program> where <program> is the path to the program you want to run. I am currently using this method when i want to run a Runescape client, as i have low ram and i end up in swap when its running normally, when i use the program just with the xinit, enough ram is freed to allow me to play the game without entering into swap and it runs much smoother.

i think this one step closer to using a PC like a gaming console. Imagine a live cd linux that as soon as it boots it autodetects your network settings then runs the game with no other X stuff running in the background, then when you exit the game it shuts down..

i know the above comment really has nothing to do with pussy at all but its so cool that i had to share it. Akso its a good method to save resources when you want to run a program that you just dont quite have enough ram for.... this might help you save enough to make the program usable.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 08:07    Post subject:  

@ aarf

aaah i see its the dialup package causing the problems. Because i have no access to dialup i cant really test this myself, ive had to rely on the feedback from people with dialup to create the package.

ok heres what you can try:

apt-get --no-install-recommends install -f

this should cut down the amount of packages apt-get wants to install down to just a few MB rather than 100 and something. Can you please copy and paste here the output of apt-get when you enter that command? if it asks for a reasonable amount of packages that you would feel comfortable downloading then i suggest you do this and it will fix your dependencies issue and your apt-get will work again.

whatever the case, can you please paste the apt-get output here on the forum and this will let me know what other packages are needed so that i can redo the wvdial-pppoe addon and ill release a new version on the website that you can download. You could even install the new version over your old one and it wont hurt, it will just fix your system. I will also fix that script install script problem.

thanks for your help with this arrf, i think we can nail this dial up problem once and for all.
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SBP

Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 09:10    Post subject:  

Hi Sickgut

Thank you for your work - I read on the previous page that you had some trouble booting from the USB stick.

I don't know if unetbooting will be the answer to your questions http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
But I have been using unetbooting on a couple of different linux distros, and by using this you will be able to boot any linux ISO from the USB stick.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 10:26    Post subject:  

SBP wrote:
Hi Sickgut

Thank you for your work - I read on the previous page that you had some trouble booting from the USB stick.

I don't know if unetbooting will be the answer to your questions http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
But I have been using unetbooting on a couple of different linux distros, and by using this you will be able to boot any linux ISO from the USB stick.
`

pussy comes in 2 formats, the .iso and the .img.gz, the img.gz is a gzipped .img image of a usb stick that has a working Pussy, and if you image this to a usb with the dd command (after you unzip it first ofcause) then the USB stick will boot every time and its not a problem.

its when people try to use the .iso as on a USB stick that they have problems. The .iso is a cdrom image ready to burn onto a cdrom or dvd or booted in a virtual machine.
Pussy has no problems booting from usb at all if the usb .img is used. But alot of people seem to think they should use the .iso somehow.

the command to image a usb stick with dd:

dd if=pussy.img of=/dev/sdb

(where sdb is the device name you of the usb image you want to install pussy to, do not specify the parition with a number like sdb1... just specify the drive itself with sdb... the fdisk -l command (lowercase L) will list what drives and their device names are attached to your computer)... it may take between 8 and 15 minutes to image the stick. There is no extra setup required, the stick will be ready to go immediately after imaging.
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SBP

Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 12:55    Post subject:  

OK I see.

The reason for using unetbooting is that I'm using a windows computer (I don't have any dd- program on that) and here it is simple to use the unetbooting program that automatically makes the USB stick bootable and boots the loaded ISO file directly.
But anyway it was only for your information and trying to help.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 13:20    Post subject:  

SBP wrote:
OK I see.

The reason for using unetbooting is that I'm using a windows computer (I don't have any dd- program on that) and here it is simple to use the unetbooting program that automatically makes the USB stick bootable and boots the loaded ISO file directly.
But anyway it was only for your information and trying to help.


aaah i see your point, installing from windows. Ive never used unetbooting before. There is a dd.exe for windows that i found online but i havent tested it. When i first made Pussy it was only for USB or removeable media and only in .img format, i figured this would be easy to support because when you image a drive with dd and an .img file its an exact replica of the original USB stick that the image was taken from. This way everyone is using exactly the same boot method etc and its very easy to support an OS that way. It wasnt till later i discovered i could run Pussy from a cdrom or iso.... because im the only dev working on pussy directly, and because ive had no experience with unetbootin or using iso's and grub etc to boot a usb stick, none of these features have been incorporated into Pussy.

if someone would like to provide a step by step walkthrough to install pussy from windows then ill post that info on the website also include it in the OS for users to read, maybe even have an autorun feature that shows the info when you insert the cdrom in a windows machine

i do appreciate your suggestions and it does help when people post here about methods that could be used to install pussy.
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SBP

Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 17:49    Post subject:  

Thanks, you only need to start the unetbooting program. It then ask which iso file to load. Then press enter and it produces an USB stick which boots into the chosen Linux. Very simple to use.
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 00:44    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
aaah i see your point, installing from windows.


Hi Sickgut,

This was my issue with the Universal USB Installer and syslinux back on page 18.

My environment is a Intel Atom board that I'm booting from the USB stick. I am aiming for a fully USB loaded resident RAM OS.

I don't have a Linux machine, so what I did was mount the ISO image then open it and use the Universal USB Installer to create the bootable files and syslinux etc.

I'm more than happy to help document things a little better and will try to do something on creating a bootable USB from a Windows machine this weekend.

Cheers
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 05:10    Post subject:  

SBP wrote:
Thanks, you only need to start the unetbooting program. It then ask which iso file to load. Then press enter and it produces an USB stick which boots into the chosen Linux. Very simple to use.


re: unetbootin.

Currently testing this with windows, is only 4.5mb. If this works ok ill include it on the .iso in the /addons dir.

we do need an official way of creating usb stick pussy from windows. Unetbootin, universal USB installer and the windows .exe of dd are all candidates. Whatever is easiest to use will win. Thankyou to those of you who have suggested various methods of usb install from windows.

note: due to the fact that the xtra version of pussy ships with wine, it may be possible to use the same unetbootin.exe or universal usb installer .exe in both windows and linux for usb installs with that version of Pussy.

will report back here soon.

[Edit:]

Ok have tested unetbootin, this essentially works but the menu entries and boot screen are all edited and the "default" unetbootin entry isnt what we want, also universal usb installer didnt work at all with the normal settings, it created an unbootable usb stick with a syslinux error.

i did however test linux live usb creator (lili) and this worked fine, and the menus and options in them are unchanged. The only draw back is there are a few junky files left on the usb stick, but this can be delt with using a single script. If we use this program as the official install from windows method then after the usb stick is prepared, the user boots into pussy, then clicks on the "drive" icon on the desktop, then clicks persistent-setup.sh, this will delete the unneeded files, create a live-rw persistant save file and even a small swapfile. This seems reasonably simple, the program is simple to run on windows and only requires 2 clicks by the user once in pussy to setup the usb as persistent. If the user doesnt require persistence, then this last step is not needed. All that is needed to use this program as the windows installer is to included it in the iso and to add the persistent-setup.sh to the main dir of the iso.

The other way as ive just tested was using the windows version of dd. If this method is used as the official way then this is how it will work:

User downloads the pussy-beta-xtra.img.zip file. Then the pussy-beta-xtra.img.zip is unzipped, revealing the pussy-beta-xtra.img image file and a dir called setup and a readme.txt file. The user clicks the readme.txt file to read instructions. The instructions are simple, insert the usb stick you wish to install pussy on into your usb port and then find what drive letter this is in my computer. Once the user finds the drive letter, all that is required is to click on the setup dir and then click on the corresponding setup script. In this dir are the following files: install-to-E.bat, install-to-F.bat, install-to-G.bat, install-to-H.bat... and the dd.exe file. If the usb stick is drive letter F then all the user has to do it click install-to-F.bat. The .bat file then executes dd to image the usb stick with the pussy-beta-xtra.img file. This takes approx 5 minutes or so. The usb stick is ready to go, Its quite possible to include the live-rw persistent file in the image with out adding to the image download size. This method produces a bootable usb stick that has the persistent feature working immediately.

The above dd method only requires the user unzip, find what drive letter they want to install pussy to, then click setup, then install-<drive>.bat. <----- This is by far the easiest way. The readme.txt would also feature a linux install section, and show the user how to fdisk -l to see what drives and their devices names are attached, then use linux dd to install pussy to usb.

I only see the last 2 options as real candidates for windows pussy install as they require no under the hood modification on the users part.

after ive finnished work on the xtra apps file, i will upload 2 windows install capable pussies. one with dd and the other with linux live ... for everyone here to test.
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