Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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sickgut
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#1801 Post by sickgut »

Finishing off the Samba stuff and other services for the "server" release of Pussy.

Still tossing up the idea of turning it into something like "console express" or something, ie, the best console only system that lets you do as much as possible without a desktop environment. The big difference between a straight server OS and the console one is the inclusion of mplayer (can be used with no GUI) and more wireless capabilities along with utilities such as cadubi (ascii art tool), fbi (frame buffer image viewer), and alsa-mixer.

multi-tasking between applications at the console level works with the ctrl + alt + f1 to f12. For instance you can have an ftp client running on one terminal "screen" and mplayer playing an mp3 in the next one and the 3rd one has alsa-mixer. Mplayer can even play dvds and whatever movie format files using the frame buffer.

Server Pussy is just server Pussy, and it serves a purpose, but an elite console only OS is just plain stupidly nerdy, altho may be a little educational.

ill report back soon with what this ends up being.

dancytron
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#1802 Post by dancytron »

I think the "console express" is a great idea It is kind of what I did to my Raspberry Pi.

One of the things I did was get all the file associations setup on Midnight Commander. If it is of any use, look here. http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 35&t=16394

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sickgut
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#1803 Post by sickgut »

Yeah a spiffy "console express" is how im going to do this server/ console only thing. It also fills in the gap a little better for people wanting to use this spiffy awesome console only thing as a base to install a desktop environment on top and produce their own distro.

Its only a few MB extra in size to go from a utilitarian server system to something a little more interesting.

Samba will be included (it wasnt included in the previous pussy) and because i have no experience with samba (well, none in the last 8 or 9 years or so) and JBV already made a samba package that "just works", i will be studying his package and will try to use the same configs. We will go with open and usable (not so secure tho) rather than paranoid security and needing a month to sit down and learn to enable things. Ofcause it could be made more secure once you login and start changing things and an easy HOWTO or similar documentation will be available in a help menu or whatever that will tell you how to make things secure. Most likely there will be an easy to remember command like: 'stop_samba' to stop samba altogether or 'secure_samba' to make pussy run a script that copies over more closed off config files that makes samba require passwords etc.

Easy out of the box server solutions make more sense if they work on the first boot.

i dont know how practical it is to run a printer in a console only linux OS, and so depending on its complexity CUPS may or may not be included.

WIFI support and extra firmware is more extensive in Wheezy than Squeeze, but there is literally GB's or many hundreds of MB's of firmware out there that is ready to install via apt-get. wicd-curses (the WICD network / WIFI manager that runs in the terminal) actually uses more space than the same app that runs in the Xwindows system.

Wheezy is much larger in disk footprint than Squeeze, and add to that the 200MB or so of overhead that the HDD install option requires, and even this console only thing will not be a small ISO.

ok back to work

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david_katelansky
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Pussy Cat Linux is already taken

#1804 Post by david_katelansky »

I just came across this. Pussy Cat Linux is Suse based;
http://susestudio.com/a/Eh7s56/pussy-cat-linux I just saw several posts on this forum about "the need" to change the name of Pussy Linux, and Pussy Cat Linux was one of the suggestions; it's already taken. ...but there's no more need to change the name of Pussy Linux then the name "Unix".

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sickgut
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Re: Pussy Cat Linux is already taken

#1805 Post by sickgut »

david_katelansky wrote:I just came across this. Pussy Cat Linux is Suse based;
http://susestudio.com/a/Eh7s56/pussy-cat-linux I just saw several posts on this forum about "the need" to change the name of Pussy Linux, and Pussy Cat Linux was one of the suggestions; it's already taken. ...but there's no more need to change the name of Pussy Linux then the name "Unix".
every man and his dawg has a linux distro. Kitty linux, Kitten linux, PussyCat linux, cat linux, felinux.....

most are named something to do with cats or whatever for no reason at all.
Pussy Linux is called what it is because its the closest but most opposite name you can have that is like/ dislike Puppy Linux.

But yeah, there is no reason to change the name especially now that it has been around since mid 2011 and there are alot of search engine hits if you look it up. Changing the name would do nothing but slow down word of mouth. And if people think Pussy is offensive, this is besides the point, i would find some other method of offending as many people as i possibly can with or without Pussy in the name.

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greengeek
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Re: Pussy Cat Linux is already taken

#1806 Post by greengeek »

david_katelansky wrote:but there's no more need to change the name of Pussy Linux then the name "Unix".
Yeah! Whoever called it 'unix' must've had no balls!

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sickgut
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Re: Pussy Cat Linux is already taken

#1807 Post by sickgut »

greengeek wrote:
david_katelansky wrote:but there's no more need to change the name of Pussy Linux then the name "Unix".
Yeah! Whoever called it 'unix' must've had no balls!
Neuterix: the Unix like OS with no freaking balls.

hmmmm maybe i can make a /dev/balls or /dev/ball1 and /dev/ball2
in the Pussy filesystem to show everyone once and for all, Pussy has got balls.

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sickgut
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#1808 Post by sickgut »

Sort of going all out with the whole console thing.

Even got a text adventure game server included, however its not enabled by default. This can easily serve as an intranet or internet chat room.

Combining it with anyterm will let you access the game/ chatroom/ primative mailing system via http (ie. just like you would a website).

An example of this is the Pussy Cat Forest text adventure game (i actually had a decent thing made but accidently deleted it with a careless system reformat) that is accessible from http://www.thepussycatforest.info then click on the Pussy Cat Forest text game link, or just goto port 4000 of the server like this:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info:4000

This is just an example and is not a complete finished game or anything interesting at all. I use it as a chat solution due to the fact most VPS providers do not allow IRC traffic or an IRC server running on their network.

MUD text gaming has been around since the very early days of internet access. There are some very active communities still and it is especially popular with people who have eyesight problems as it can be used with a screen reader. Most MMORPG's still use something very similar to this server side, but the software client side interprets things and displays graphics etc and sounds rather than words.

The base for the MUD (multi user dungeon) text adventure game is available at:

http://dead-souls.net

Note: if you get involved with the dead-souls community and actively talk on the intermud chat system that links every other dead-souls text game together, its best not to mention sickgut or nafe. I have kinda been cyber warring with the guy running the chat router for many years now.

Note also that there are no precompiled binaries for linux on that website, but it does contain precompiled Windows binaries.

It uses the telnet protocol so you can just telnet to it or do something spiffy like link it up to anyterm. Anyterm is a web/http/https to terminal/ console application. You can set it to any port you like and this will let you access the actual shell/ terminal/ console of the system its running on via your web browser, even if your accessing it from an internet cafe or some such other internet service that doesnt let you access anything other than websites etc.

Anyterm is available from:

http://www.anyterm.org

Note: there are no precompiled binaries on this site, but the site itself has a help forum and all the info you need.

QB64 (almost a clone of MS Quick Basic) will be included even tho some video modes will not work at the terminal/console etc, there are very very many that will. If your coding applications that deal with text things then it will be fine. You can still create a binary that uses an Xwindows system but ofcause you cant actually run it on this console only Pussy,

---------------------------------

If anyone has any suggestions for console/ terminal/ shell/ framebuffer applications that work without the need of an Xwindows system then please speak up now as this will be finished soon. When i have actually finished ill post here all the apps included and give everyone a chance to download, test and report for the purpose of bug testing/ quality control before this is made to be an official release.

cinclus_cinclus
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Re: Persistent Frugal install of Debian-Live Wheezy.

#1809 Post by cinclus_cinclus »

sickgut Sat 02 Feb 2013, 23:04 wrote: ...
edit:

oooops i misread the text, i thought you where booting the actual iso not the files from it. The new wheezy is supposed to be compatible with booting the iso straight from grub ill test this
Agreed! Simply add to menu.lst an menu-entry for booting directly into the wheezy-bare.iso-image-file.

The following menu-entry refers to an installation where:

- the 3. primary partition (=/dev/sda3) on hd0 is not in use(!)
- the ISO-image is on an unfragmented FAT32-partition (/dev/sda5)
- the grub4dos-version used is 0.4.5c

Code: Select all

title (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso
partnew (hd0,2) 0x00 (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso
map  (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso (0xff)
map --hook
root (0xff)
chainloader (0xff)
Please read Scooby's explanation:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 9&start=22

nooby
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#1810 Post by nooby »

Here is a small Debian.
http://distrowatch.com/7742
Development Release: SparkyLinux 2.1 RC
a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution with a choice of Enlightenment or LXDE desktops: "SparkyLinux 2.1 release candidate 'Eris' (Main edition) is out. The system is built as all 2.x releases on Debian testing 'Wheezy'. New ISO images E17/LXDE


165 MB how is this one different to all the other Debians?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

anticapitalista

#1811 Post by anticapitalista »

nooby wrote:Here is a small Debian.
http://distrowatch.com/7742
Development Release: SparkyLinux 2.1 RC
a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution with a choice of Enlightenment or LXDE desktops: "SparkyLinux 2.1 release candidate 'Eris' (Main edition) is out. The system is built as all 2.x releases on Debian testing 'Wheezy'. New ISO images E17/LXDE


165 MB how is this one different to all the other Debians?
... because it is a typo error. The iso is actually 1.5GB

nooby
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#1812 Post by nooby »

Haha I love such errors. Downloaded rather fast
for to be that big then.
thanks for setting the size correct.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

mini-jaguar
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#1813 Post by mini-jaguar »

Is there any good meows on the xtra CD? If so, where?

I am Pussyfying 4.3.1KDE and I can't stand the generic Windows type sounds, I need some good cat sounds. I never got Pussy Xtra to recognise my sound card either, but I'll wait for the next version.

The wallpaper was easy enough to find though.

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#1814 Post by sickgut »

mini-jaguar wrote:Is there any good meows on the xtra CD? If so, where?

I am Pussyfying 4.3.1KDE and I can't stand the generic Windows type sounds, I need some good cat sounds. I never got Pussy Xtra to recognise my sound card either, but I'll wait for the next version.

The wallpaper was easy enough to find though.
next pussy will have alot of firmware/ drivers that the old pussy didnt have, hopefully you will get better meows from your speakers. I prefer the old method of installing a USB port in an actual pussy cat and training it to meow when a signal is sent through to USB port, that is authentic non simulated very real meows.

Pussy cat sounds in Pussy Linux go together like cocaine and waffles. It is high on my to do list. Maybe with a few random Pussy cat video clips too.

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sickgut
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#1815 Post by sickgut »

i apollogize to everyone here, had a bad spout of not sleeping for a very long time and everything i did to modify the new pussy into something better kinda backfired because i was doing silly stuff that i could usually do perfectly fine, but i ruined it because i was just too mentally drained to do it correctly and now i just created more work for myself.

and this has kinda halted the development of pussy

after i have had a few good sleeps ill be back on the case making pussy meow louder and more awesome.

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sickgut
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#1816 Post by sickgut »

mini-jaguar wrote:Is there any good meows on the xtra CD? If so, where?

I am Pussyfying 4.3.1KDE and I can't stand the generic Windows type sounds, I need some good cat sounds. I never got Pussy Xtra to recognise my sound card either, but I'll wait for the next version.

The wallpaper was easy enough to find though.
No extra meows on the Xtra version, i didnt add any extra sound files than what is included by default with whatever applications are installed.

You may or maynot have some success with the feature in catroll-panel that reinitializes the sound card and or alsa driver. I forget what its called but it is obvious enough if you look for it, im not on a pussy machine atm and cant remember what its called.. maybe something like "alsa-reinitialize" or "alsa-detect" or "something something something meow meow moew purr".......

Saintless contributed the script in catroll-panel that restarts and redetects the alsa audio device. Pussy being a live distro that asks for no config instructions when booting needs to select atleast one audio driver to get sound and it is rigged to choose the most supported one, unfortunately this means that a small percentage of computers wont have a compatible sound driver on first boot.

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Re: Persistent Frugal install of Debian-Live Wheezy.

#1817 Post by sickgut »

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
sickgut Sat 02 Feb 2013, 23:04 wrote: ...
edit:

oooops i misread the text, i thought you where booting the actual iso not the files from it. The new wheezy is supposed to be compatible with booting the iso straight from grub ill test this
Agreed! Simply add to menu.lst an menu-entry for booting directly into the wheezy-bare.iso-image-file.

The following menu-entry refers to an installation where:

- the 3. primary partition (=/dev/sda3) on hd0 is not in use(!)
- the ISO-image is on an unfragmented FAT32-partition (/dev/sda5)
- the grub4dos-version used is 0.4.5c

Code: Select all

title (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso
partnew (hd0,2) 0x00 (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso
map  (hd0,4)/wheezy-bare.iso (0xff)
map --hook
root (0xff)
chainloader (0xff)
Please read Scooby's explanation:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 9&start=22
thanks for the info buddy

very useful to know and i appreciate the heads up on the code required, you probably saved me from multiple strokes and a hemroid of the soul.

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sickgut
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#1818 Post by sickgut »

anticapitalista wrote:
nooby wrote:Here is a small Debian.
http://distrowatch.com/7742
Development Release: SparkyLinux 2.1 RC
a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution with a choice of Enlightenment or LXDE desktops: "SparkyLinux 2.1 release candidate 'Eris' (Main edition) is out. The system is built as all 2.x releases on Debian testing 'Wheezy'. New ISO images E17/LXDE


165 MB how is this one different to all the other Debians?
... because it is a typo error. The iso is actually 1.5GB
Wheezy is hidiously huge. The basic ISO im working with after slimming is 350mb in size, however probably 180MB or more of this is the HDD install stuff, i may be able to remove some of the preinstall packages and edit the install scripts to only included the things that are useful (why on earth do we need graphical and text install and 3 different partition setup programs and lilo and grub etc etc... ?

only prob is if i do modify this then we open a can of worms as far as users getting support from debian channels but HDD install option here is such a huge overhead, its about as large as the entire Pussy Base ISO of the old Pussy. Maybe DVD version could have HDD install as an option and the smaller CDROM version could leave it out maybe.

what is easier to install for a newbie?

1) follow a step by step instruction in Pussy catroll-panel that tells the user to copy the ISO to the HDD and then install grub

or

2) usual traditional non live HDD install

There was a newer ISO released by Debian Live earlier this month, ill slim it and see whats practical to remove or add. The problem im facing now is that Wheezy is so large with the HDD install stuff included that a full CDROM version the size of the older Xtra version would have nowhere near as many applications installed because the old squeeze debian live base was like 90mb and this wheezy base is 350mb.

Perhaps removing the HDD install stuff from the CDROM version but including it in the DVD version would be a sensible compromise?

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#1819 Post by sickgut »

I apologize for the ever changing babble being spewed forth from my fingertips on this thread in the last few months.

Some things look good on paper but dont work in real life... over planning on my part and lack of sleep have just resulted in an ever changing confused spiel here...

So i have decided it best to scale down the project to a single release of one version. This will include a small console only boot option that doubles as a server, and the full desktop environment as a separate boot option... however as per usual the desktop variant on the same iso/ image will also include all the server services as well.

It was a mistake to try and be ahead of the curve as far as jumping on a premature and barely working debian live wheezy/ testing shell as a base for Pussy... for one thing it will require multiple updates to the base system, essentially a new OS... until finally we are running the same release candidate that ends up being used as the debian stable/ current version, otherwise Pussy users wanting to seek support from debian people will run into trouble simply because the advice offered to them probably wouldnt work as it is too different from the final debian stable.

Due to the size difference between the old Pussy that had no official HDD install support and the new Pussy that will include it i was considering releasing 2 versions, one that is smaller and is Live only like the previous pussy and a version that has the HDD install stuff included....
There is a 200MB difference in size here....
I am forced to choose to develop either one or the other, not both...

And the winner is the Pussy with HDD install features. However, this will also means that creating something similar in features to the old Pussy Xtra (almost filled an entire cdrom iso) probably will not fit on a cdrom. This will end up being maybe 900MB or so in size. Considering any modern computer either has a DVD drive or a USB 2.0 port or a SD card slot, this is not a problem.

In the spirit of keeping things simple, the new Pussy will be similar in features to the older Pussy Xtra but with a server/ console only boot option, a HDD install at boot option and a few extra things like samba and cups and webtv etc included as well as anything else that will help deliver a sweet out of the box experience.

To keep things practical Pussy will be as large as it needs to be, but i am not going to deliberately aim for a DVD sized (4GB or so) distro. This would make downloading it a problem for alot of people. The final size of Pussy will most likely be 900MB or 1GB or something similar.

Considering Pussy Xtra included more useful apps in its 600mb than pretty much any 2GB or more Linux distro could ever even wish for, and the new base being 200mb larger than the old one.... we are still going to be the best performance/ features VS disk footprint/ RAM usage linux distro that will be available.

So all in all, new Pussy will be like old Pussy Xtra + newer things + server/ console only option at boot + HDD install option at boot + a few hundred MB larger in size so it will no longer be CDROM sized but more like 1GB SD card/ USB stick sized and or can be burned to a DVD-R and used from that to install to HDD or be run as live.

Bob_the_plumber
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#1820 Post by Bob_the_plumber »

ok

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