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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug 2012, 22:44    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
oh, and if I could just make one other comment...I think there is something problematic about the version of dhcpcd used in Pussy so if poss I think PussyPie needs a different version to ensure it will be easily connected to a wide range of routers. (just askin'...)



the rasp debian OS that is already there seems to work real well with auto guessing the correct network config, and because this thing doesnt have a wireless network card/ adaptor .. etc... its fairly simple, if your router has dhcp, then the rasp will find it and configure itself. I dont know particularly how this differs from the versions of stuff i had in pussy for x68 but its already working well and i promise that i wont change that, i promise!

also because its so good at doing the dhcp stuff, you will probably find that you dont need to use a GUI network config utility... and funny enough the rasp debian OS doesnt even have a network GUI network utility, i spose its because the network already kind of works.... however... if you dont have dhcp enabled network and you use static addresses then you will need to live in commandline hell for a good half hour to get it all to work.

i think when people start to use wireless network adaptors with the rasp then there will be alot of bitching etc

im kind of leaning towards having a gui, but it doesnt auto load (so that it doesnt use up all your resources when you just want it to be a server...) you will need to type startx or whatever to get it to work. The rasp default debian already has it setup like that. When it boots i will have the welcoming text tell you what you need to type to do whatever etc and what apps are available from the commandline.

because the dhcp works very well and i will have the ssh/ telnet/ web/ ftp servers auto running, you dont need to connect a monitor to it if you want to use it as a server, not even on the first boot, it will just work.... kind of how your router just works and you can access it and its settings over the network.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug 2012, 23:31    Post subject:  

I found the config.txt file in the /boot section that lets you force vga output from the hdmi video connector, so i could have purchased a cheaper straight through hdmi to vga convertor rather than a more expensive one that has a chip to make it work.

also there is the PAL and overclock lines of code in there. Apparently you just type a number and that is what the Pi will clock to. I dont know yet if ill include a slight overclock in the pussy pie tho, maybe ill setup a menu or something that points the user into the right spot to show them where to enter the overclock thingy. By default its already setup to overclock simply by uncommenting a line and i dont think the config file would tell you to do this if it wasnt safe it, it clocks it from 700mhz to 800mhz. In the mean time im running my pi at 800mhz and ill see how much hotter it gets
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 00:33    Post subject:  

aaaaargh

i think im about half way through the pussy trimming (mwuahahaa... i know, i know.. sue me...) of pussy pie, you could say there is only a small center strip left (mwuahahahaaaa....) i should keep my lips sealed and stop my mouth from flapping before i get in trouble.

the arrrgh bit is because ive lost the ability to root login as root directly when sitting at the pussy pie itself, but i can login as root via ssh etc.....

there was always the chance of the pussy getting a few scrapes and bruises when i yank half its guts out, its prob just a config file i need to edit.

Im impressed with the dhcp and the ifup and ifdown commands (ie: ifup eth0), because it spams you with all the details of what is right or wrong kind of thing, rather than typing ifup etho and nothing happening and you dont know if its working or not like in normal debians. Ill have to find out exactly what packages are installed and how they are configured because i would like that kind of thing in all pussies.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 01:44    Post subject:  

Hmmmm.... there are 15mb worth of locales that could be removed, by apt-get purge locales

then again, i could just manually delete the locale files of less likely used ones, i doubt we need the galic language.

there is something called: omxplayer
already there, its 9.something mb in size and is apparently a media player. Ill leave it there for the time being as it may just be adequate. If it fails to impress me when i get to testing it then ill just remove it and put in mplayer in place of it, but mplayer will take about 20mb more space.

A "device" like the rasp will probably be used more for media playing than for web browsing and also mplayer is very fancy and has all the fancy things able to be used with no X session.

not entirely sure if we need manpages, i dont think many people use them anyway. Ive also deleted the content from /usr/share/docs also.

however i may be alone in the assumption that people will look for information online rather than use local docs, also the --help still works without manpages, like ftp --help for example this shows all the info you need for the individual commands.

So there are 3 forms of local documentation, the --help, /usr/share/docs and the manpages. There are probably more. I believe we only need one form of local help.

I was getting help from the #debian channel on freenode irc today they didnt seem to mind. There will also be a rough outline of what Pussy Pie can be used for and how to use it with my own documentation.

The method for package removing i am using is looking through the "status" file and if a package is "required" or "important" then i dont remove it. If a package is only a few KB in size and looks even remotely useful i dont delete it. If a package is labeled as "optional" and is over say 150kb in size then i analyze it to see if its something i might want to include in Pussy Pie. If it isnt then i remove it. If a package is labled as "optional" and is a few MB in size then its auto removed by me.

Note: the programming language stuff (python mostly) is being completely removed and so are as many *-dev packages as i can track down. The compiling stuff like gcc make and bison etc is being removed.
The rasp has 256mb ram, and i want to be able to squashfs the file system and have it being able to be run from ram and having 1GB of compiling tools and Python stuff included doesnt make sense when your aiming to make a 100 and something mb OS.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 02:20    Post subject:  

root@raspberrypi:/# apt-get purge libsqlite3-0
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
aptitude* libsqlite3-0*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 6 not upgraded.
After this operation, 4,618 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
Abort.


hmmm.... no mention of apt-get .....
will anyone miss libsqlite3-0?

I am keeping the default repo sources.list file pointing as the raspian repos rather than the normal debian ones because there are quite a few raspian only packages that contain things like bootloaders and video drivers etc and the raspbian archives seem to be the normal debian ones + a few extras so i think its good form to keep it how it is.

[Edit:] i am removing those two packages, i can always add them again
[Edit 2:] down to 38% usage on the main partition, this was above 90% before i started slimming
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 07:51    Post subject:  

Slimming of the default OS has finished!

The default OS takes up over 90% of the 1.7GB image, but now i have slimmed it, its only taking up 18%.

This slimmed, bare version of Pussy Pie will be uploaded to my website
so that others can use it as a base to make an OS or just to customize.

I have already uploaded the apt-get log to the website so you can see what programs where removed from the default OS.

Pussy Pie has a slightly different url than the old pussy:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/pussy-pie/

If you just go to www.thepussycatforest.info you will see link to the pussy pie project also.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 12:07    Post subject:  

Uploading the bare bones stripped down debian and its only 114mb when zipped. I know that puppy for the rasp is closer to 60mb but but this is to be expected as the apt-get system in debian alone is 40mb.

the ony issue with this bare bones OS is that you cant login as root at the login screen, you need to use the user: pi and pass: raspberry.... once you are logged in then you su root, then type the password for root which is:pussy

note: this ony has a ssh server, the webserver, ftp server, telnet server etc arent installed.

this isnt worth downoading if you are a normal user who cannot use the command line very well. It does have Xorg but there is no apps installed much at all. This is only good for hackers and people wanting to build on it to make their own OS.

The proper server pussy will be released maybe in a coupe of days.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug 2012, 23:28    Post subject: Bare bones debian for Rasp Pi available. Law of efficiency.  

The stripped down base is available for download now from:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/pussy-pie/rasp-image-bare.img.zip

The README.txt for this is available here:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/pussy-pie/README.txt

this is realy only for developers or hackers or those familiar with debian and are able to use the apt-get system to install everything they desire.
Xorg and JWM are installed and Dillo is the web browser, i dont know if there is a menu entry for dillo, if not then open a terminal and type: dillo.

Unzip then use dd if=rasp-image-bare-img of=/dev/sdx
to image an SD card just like the normal Raspberry Pi debian image
(where "x" is the letter of the card you want to image)

When your up and running, login as user: pi and pass: raspberry
then su to root using the password: pussy

please let me know how this works for you all, until i get more 2gb sd cards in the post, i cant really tell if my method of using dd to only copy the first 1.9gb of the 8gb sd card im using actually works unless i spend more time making copies of the 8gb card im using so i dont loose the progress ive made so far in the event of a failed imaging.

i dont know how to get the exact byte address of the end of the default 2gb rasp image, and then convert that into to the strange way that dd has of counting bytes (it doesnt use 1024 as a MB, it uses 1000). If someone has already figured out this info or has a link to something helpful online, then please post here.

when the 2gb sd cards come in the mail and i have the ability to use multiple images quickly and compare them i will have a look at Barry's Puppy Pi and how it is setup to use a compressed file system.
As far as i under stand it, there are a couple of rasp pi system partitions at the start of the normal image that boot everything up, but once its up and going, you can do whatever the hell you like with the OS partition as long as rasp pi system stuff knows where to look to boot the OS. I bet i could grab the Puppy Pi image and put it on the sd card, then simply swap out the Puppy files for the Debian ones within the squashfs filesystem.

only time will tell.....
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 05 Aug 2012, 06:01    Post subject:  

Just tested the Puppy SAP from Barry, i thought it was supposed to have a .sfs squashed filesystem but it doesnt. It is roughly the same size as Pussy except that Barry's download package uses a different form of compression.

i dont know why the Puppy SAP needs minutes to boot the first time, to set stuff up? Its an image for the rasp, everyone is running the same hardware.... why do we need to waste time detecting stuff? Why not ship an image that has been booted once to begin with?

I am deciding if we should go up in card size to 4gb for the standard image, as 2gb cards are not really being sold much anymore. This will also save people from needing to mess with the configuration much when they want to make use of all the space on their 4gb card after they image it with a 2gb image.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 06 Aug 2012, 09:24    Post subject:  

If there are technical problems with the rasp pi image of the pussy from the website then fire up gparted on the linux machine you are imaging your sd card with and remove whatever junk partition is left at the end of the sd card if there is one, that is after the 1.7gb linux partition. This should clear it right up. This wont be an issue when i receive my 2gb sd cards in the mail soon, as i will be able to get the image size to be exactly the right size for a 2gb card and that will sort it all out.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 06 Aug 2012, 09:43    Post subject:  

Here is a copy and paste from a ssh/ putty session on the rasp pi immediately after logging in, you will see how efficient we have the ram usage:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
login as: root
root@192.168.1.102's password:
Linux raspberrypi 3.1.9+ #168 PREEMPT Sat Jul 14 18:56:31 BST 2012 armv6l

The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.

Type 'startx' to launch a graphical session

Last login: Sat Aug 4 11:00:00 2012 from 192.168.1.21
root@raspberrypi:~# free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 188080 39532 148548 0 7632 18656
-/+ buffers/cache: 13244 174836
Swap: 0 0 0
root@raspberrypi:~#

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This shows the RAM usage, of the 39.5mb used, 13.2mb is cached and buffered, this in effect is still free ram for all intents and purposes, meaning that 26.3mb is the true figure of what is actually being used. This also included the ssh session that is spawned by me logging in via the network. I suspect the a user using the keyboard sitting in front of the Pi would have even less RAM usage. This we well on target for the efficiency that i expected to achieve with Pussy for the Pi. The idea here is to avoid swap where possible as sd card using swap is just a recipe for very long pauses and ugliness.

This readout was pasted from a putty session using the currently available version of Pussy Pie from the website.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 06 Aug 2012, 19:31    Post subject: Pussy Pie Server edition released  

Pussy Pie Server Edition for the Raspberry Pi is ready for download:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/pussy-pie/pussy-pie-server.zip

203MB in size. Unzip and then image to a 2gb or larger SD card the same way you would the with most other OSes for the Rasp Pi:

dd if=pussy-pie-server.img of=/dev/sdx (where the "x" is the letter of the sd card you wish to image.) Use fdisk -l (lowercase L) in a Linux system to see a readout of the drive attached to your computer if you have any doubt as to what the letter of the sd card is then this command will help you track it down.

Even tho i had found alot more stuff could remove from the previous edtion and the space increased from the server apps i added to this is probably equal to the amount of that which i had deleted, this image is larger for some reason by 100mb. Altho this is perfectly functional, i suspect the size difference is because i didnt zero out the partitions before i backed up the sd card and zipped it and uploaded it to the website. I usually use dd to create a huge file and then delete it, so that every available spare sector on the disk is turned to zero while keeping the data safe. This usually results in smaller images after they are zipped.

This version is basicly the same as the recently released bare image + the addition of the following:

lighttpd (webserver), pure-ftpd (ftp server), telnetd (telnet server), screen (utility that lets you manage virtual screens console screens).

There is a brief message that displays immediately after boot that tells gives you an idea of what apps are installed and what services are running on what ports as well as how to configure the Rasp.

There is a bare xorg/ jwm X environment that lets you run dillo (click www-browser) and open and manage terminal sessions more efficiently.
Altho there is no real use for it in a server OS, the sound is properly configured.

If you want to install anything then run: apt-get update, then apt-get install <program>.

This OS will boot without needing any kind of monitor and you can ssh/ telnet into it immediately. There is no need for a network manager as the dhcp works excellently and that is pretty much all you need for an ethernet wired network.

Keyboard and or local reconfiguring via the 'raspi-config' application may cause a long pause when any of these selections are chosen. I initially thought that the Rasp had crashed but its fine, it just takes half or minute to a minute or so.

There is no auto swapfile setup on boot. There is such little RAM used once this thing is booted that there is no real need for a swapfile. Swapping on an SD card takes forever, so the idea was to avoid swapping completely. 256mb ram is more than enough to run dillo, multiple terminal sessions and all your server services.

If there are any technical probs then please let me know.

The next Pussy Pie will be more game/ media orientated.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2750
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2012, 05:12    Post subject:  

Excellent. Downloading now - just got to get my hands on my pie...
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012, 03:42    Post subject:  

At present there is already a number of free OpenGL based first person shooter games available for the Rasp Pi, that are already precomiled and ready to apt-get install.

Open Arena and Assault Cube are there and today i am installing and testing them. The outcome of this bit of research will determine the content of the next release of Pussy Pie. However, games are huge and either we will need to officially move up to a 4gb image rather than a 2gb and or squashfs the games and mount them in fstab so it operates seamlessly with the existing file system but also takes very little space.
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Bob_the_plumber

Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012, 09:53    Post subject: pussy  

yo yo yo sickgut, i've registered here just to ask you a question, i currently use puppy 5.28 as my primary OS which is great but i need something new so i searched on the internetz for a debian derivative just for fun and found your pussy.

My questionz are :

1) Can I use your pussy for my primary OS ?? I know it's in beta stage, but i want to use it as my everyday distro so..

2) i don't have any other questions i think so thanks dude for creating an apt-get compatible puppy

yo yo yo
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