PLUG

[JohnMurga]

Hi,

I am prepared to bring the PLUG sub-section back, and provide database or whatever else is required/requested for the project.

But given the recent mess I have the following conditions :

• At least 3 of the following agree to be in charge (with admin rights over PLUG related content) : ttuuxxx, Aitch, WhoDo, raffy, Béèm.
  Any major decisions are approved/agreed on by these three, or at least three.
  I will work closely with these people to make this work.
  I am willing to consider additions to the Admin list, but they have to be long standing members with a proven interest in Puppy's future.

Take it or leave (it).

And please save me the self-righteous comments, if you had to deal with the crap I receiving right now your patience would be wearing thin too.

Cheers
John de Murga

[8-bit]

John M,
I think this is good.
You can take this suggestion or leave it.
I think the developers should have one locked post that they can access that is editable only by the administrators of that post/thread.
A second thread available to everyone for their distro improvement/bugfix suggestions would also be made available and suggestions/bugs would be transfered to the locked thread/post.
Also, we have the second now, but to me, it seems like more of a free-for-all rather than a thread for submitting suggestions for distro improvement and long standing bugs that seem to get bypassed.
That is the thread I am posting in now.
To me, if this thread is to be used for its original purpose, it needs deletion of posts that have absolutely no bases of being a suggestion or attention brought to a long standing bug.

Now I have said my piece and I hope no one has taken my suggestion as a hit against free speech.

[WhoDo]

I am prepared to bring the PLUG sub-section back, and provide database or whatever else is required/requested for the project.

But given the recent mess I have the following conditions :

• At least 3 of the following agree to be in charge (with admin rights over PLUG related content) : ttuuxxx, Aitch, WhoDo, raffy, Béèm.
  Any major decisions are approved/agreed on by these three, or at least three.
  I will work closely with these people to make this work.
  I am willing to consider additions to the Admin list, but they have to be long standing members with a proven interest in Puppy's future.

Take it or leave (it).

Excellent compromise, John. You have my support. If only two of the others ante up I'll come on board as #3 to meet your conditions, but otherwise I'd prefer someone who is currently more active than me take on the role.

Thank you for being willing to consider this again, especially in the light of what you may have been dealing with offline over this issue.

[Aitch]

John M, many thanks!

This is certainly welcome news, and I'd be happy to do what I can to try to make this work

I have reserved a PLUG2 thread which could be incorporated, but I think we really need to discuss seriously exactly what kind of sub-structure will best suit what we have already thrashed around
Can we please also have an invisible thread to move things to, so they can be looked at, sifted and returned, if necessary?

I hope puppyluvr will consider merging his PUG thread to this effort, maybe as a sub thread, or we will still be in a mess - I think it was set up when there was some craziness here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68436

Views on that point, anyone/puppyluvr?

I've pm'd puppyluvr

Aitch

[shariebeth]

Excellent!

[Aitch]

John

/aside

Unrelated to PLUG, but whilst you may look in here, can I also ask you consider making makoto a spam moderator?
He's taken over from me as being top spam notifier, and is doing a great job. IMHO

thanks

Aitch

[pemasu]

Could the name be now UNPLUGGED.

[ttuuxxx]

count me in and that now makes 3 of us Aitch,WhoDo,ttuuxxx agrees
ttuuxxx

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
I`m all for it...

[nooby]

John

/aside

Unrelated to PLUG, but whilst you may look in here, can I also ask you consider making makoto a spam moderator?
He's taken over from me as being top spam notifier, and is doing a great job. IMHO

thanks

Aitch

Makoto should be the spam remover. He not only have the skill and motivation for it but he has proven to be the Champion beating all of us on spotting them first and understanding their modus operandi. He is worth his weight in gold.

Now maybe he don't want the responsibility but one could set up so the spam get invisible due to his swift actions and then somebody else approve of them later when that admin has the time to. So I second what Aitch proposed.

[Aitch]

Hello,
I`m all for it...

thanks Jay

thanks also to nooby for support

Aitch

[8-bit]

As to options for a clean list of suggestions for Puppy improvement that a developer could check and ring in on, could the Puppylinux.org wiki be used to create a list the developers could check?
I also think we need some more developers opinions on what they would like to see as to an area they could check without having to wade through a bunch of posts in a thread trying to find suggestions that they could implement.

[RetroTechGuy]

John M,
I think this is good.
You can take this suggestion or leave it.
I think the developers should have one locked post that they can access that is editable only by the administrators of that post/thread.

And this thread is where they can collate the collected bugs/suggestions/requests, away from the noise of the other thread(s).

[RetroTechGuy]

As to options for a clean list of suggestions for Puppy improvement that a developer could check and ring in on, could the Puppylinux.org wiki be used to create a list the developers could check?

Can sections of the Wiki be locked for use by only these "comptrollers"?

I also think we need some more developers opinions on what they would like to see as to an area they could check without having to wade through a bunch of posts in a thread trying to find suggestions that they could implement.

This should be the first thing the thread managers/comptrollers (not to be confused with section admins, who have other admin powers) should do.

If this process doesn't effectively give the developers some administrative assistants, who will help them locate and track bugs to be squashed, the experiment will likely fail.

If the experiment devolves into the Puppyite "I demand...", I expect that it will fail really quickly.

However, this could be a real success by helping locate, identify and categorize Puppy needs, so the Devs need not spend their time reading through the chaff and noise to find them.

[Aitch]

RTG

The thread to collate should be PLUG2 for now - that was its intention

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 567#542567

Hopefully it will be made a sub thread in the new PLUG Section, and re-named

Agreed about needed helpers//admin assistants for devs

8 bit/RTG/others

I had already pm'd darkstrike, wiki admin, about having a PLUG section on the wiki - he's responded

The wiki is undergoing transformation itself at the moment, raffy is making changes, - but there's no real urgency, but it's in hand, thanks

Once we find out from John a bit more about what forum structure we'll be able to use, I'll post an update, until them, please can people stay calm, and not expect miracles
This is a huge task, and I'd sooner we do it in the best way possible, with what resources and people we have
At the moment we are running on impetuses of my previous efforts, and this is not yet coordinated.
We haven't yet assigned thread managers/comptrollers as you call them

thanks guys'n'gals

Have now pm'd raffy

If people want something to do, can a list of devs be collected?

If you are a dev or know one, post info in PLUG2 at the link above, thanks

Keep ideas, suggestions coming here

Aitch

[RetroTechGuy]

RTG

The thread to collate should be PLUG2 for now - that was its intention

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 567#542567

Hopefully it will be made a sub thread in the new PLUG Section, and re-named

It appears that the thread is currently "writable"...

When in use, this thread should probably appear as "locked" to all but the 2,3,4 "admin"-volunteers, who will maintain, edit and add to the list (and probably should have only a very few messages, just updating the info in the post/thread to show the current state). If that thread accumulates dozens or hundreds of posts and followups, it will become largely useless.

If PLUG is a subsection, that particular thread should probably be "sticky" at the top (i.e. "read here first, and see if your bug/suggestion/wish list item is already noted").

I could envision the "bug table" (not to be confused with the "Bugman table" ), having something along the lines of "new/ongoing", "in process" (of being solved), "solved" as responses to those conditions.

Also, since there are numerous versions of Puppy... How does one keep track of which version this table/list applies to? Or does it always apply to the "latest"?

There are Devs (hi ttuuxxx) still working on 2.14. I believe that some are still using 3.x, and several on 4.x, and many on 5.x, including the beta to become 6.x. A book-keeping nightmare!...

[Béèm]

It is m opinion, that the first thing PLUG needs is a charter and a road-map.
This will have the advantage of gaining credit for PLUG.
Up to now, I feel there is a cacophony going into all kind of directions.
But there is no structural base.

I hope the PLUG founders will put their heads together and come soon with such a charter/road-map.

It is also my opinion, as said before, that the first goal of PLUG should be to provide the community with an easy to access streamlined information for newbees, helpers and regulars. to help them to find solutions, advice and puppy's/derivatives where to download and have descriptions.

A huge task indeed.

Info is scattered now in the forum/wikki, wikka and other sources maybe.
There should be a unique place to start off.

Once in place and maintained up to date, developers will see this and are probably more motivated to work with PLUG.

I hope to read soon charter/road-map.

[JohnMurga]

Once we find out from John a bit more about what forum structure we'll be able to use, I'll post an update, until them, please can people stay calm, and not expect miracles.

You can expect whatever structure you ask for, unless you ask to change the rest of the forum.

However, I need you guys to have a clear idea of what you want, and agree between yourselves before hand.

So I would expect that someone drafts a proposal, gets the other PLUG admins to agree and then we move on from there.

Cheers
John de Murga

[Aitch]

Thanks John

I'll kick it off!

SECTION HEADING: PLUG aka Puppy Linux Users Group
Suggested Location - the top of House Training, or, Top of Taking Puppy Out for a Walk - Also Suggest sticky as and where needed

Just a starter suggestion for Forum structure - see also BK's timeline....

http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... id-511.htm

.....as something like that for the whole of Puppy linux development could be done, as an overview/Intro page
- "What is Puppy Linux, and where does it come from?" - with a bit of narrative - thanks Barry

Opening statement from WhoDo's original, aims, targets, and purpose
- or I have drafted an Impress .ODF presentation, a bit rough, but a start

PLUG Section Guidelines - expected behaviour/unacceptable posts
Yes - there need to be basic agreements as free-for-all ISN'T working!

This is NOT an exhaustive or complete list, but just a hint at the scale of task we embark on - ideal for database, though sifting and inputing data will require many users putting in time and energy!
That is one of the tasks Users can embark on

Sub Heading: Official Puppy/s
sub-sections for each
* Vintage - all pre 2.14 Puppy
* 2.14/2.14R/2.15CE/2.16/2.17/2.18/2.20?
* 3.00/3,01
* 4.12/4.12R/4.31/4.31R/4.6?
* 5.0-Lupu/Wary/Quirky5.1-Luci/5.2-Lucid/5.25/5.3
* 6.0?
* future

Sub Heading: Derivatives

list to be compiled...too many for me

Each puppy series section to have its own kernel version noted and Bugs/worked on+by whom/waiting to be picked up/solved/notes - a la git?

Highlights - urgent, if possible with phpBB?
- recurring theme problems, unresolved/keep recurring across versions
- Security alerts
- repeat calls for feature/driver inclusion/kernel system call change


Sub Heading Information: what and where to find it

It is hoped this section will be databased, with a simple alphabetic search/user tagged search term - whatever is possible
Items such as -

• ISO locations/repos/deadlinks/mirrors/temporary locations
  Users Information: How To's/Basic instruction/Manuals/Videos/Users tips + tweaks/ Updates/ User+other reviews!!
  Note: Much information is only dated in the forum - dates need adding to many below categories, linked to timeline, maybe?
  Community .org website/WIKI/Webdesktop/other Puppy sites
  Which Puppy is right for me?/reason for using your PC may help you decide which Puppy to use
  Puppy's own hardware compatibility list - what works/doesn't
  Solutions: published user threads, highlighting issues with versions with specific hardware, and fixes, including unresolved - over 9000 unanswered posts, though not all require responses - when did you last help someone?
  Languages/internationalisation - are you catered for/how are we doing?
  Softwares/Which version/derivative do they run on
  SFS's and how to use them/Mounting
  Save files
  Formatting and filesystems
  Networking/connecting to a network/router/the web/other PCs
  Windows converts 1st time guides
  Dual booting with Windows
  Installs - initial setup
  Bootloaders/Grub and Grub2/LILO/Grub4dos/Wakepup/PLOP/Netboot/others
  Find those files - the Puppy/linux file structure/Rox/Midnight Commander etc - finding and using files/mouse actions for copy pasting
  Samba/Filesharing
  Cups/Printing
  Other devices
  IRC/Chat/Skype etc
  Browsers/importing and saving favourites/Flash/Java/Email/Youtube
  Bash Scripts and scripting - what it is and how to use it
  Virtualisation/Clusters
  Special purpose
  all else....questions arising

Sub-Section: Devs
Comment specifically for devs and from devs - possibly a locked thread, with permissions for devs

Sub-Section: PLUG2
User dev requests/informations/Bugs, Fixes, and Requests

Sub-Section: PUG
Puppyluvr's thread re-located, - 'for those users that don't want to feel structured'

Sub-Section: Admin feedback, where matters relating to requests for admin intervention/resultant actions can be posted - don't expect to much, but this is suggested as a move toward transparency and fairness, and for users and admins to exchange without spoiling the threads
Comment may be moved here without notice, but pointer left in thread
This is experimental!

Any additional sub-sections as required, on request to John M

Sub-Section: The vision...where to from here...Barry statement re: his future involvement/core developer group?
John Murga Statement on his support, the life expectancy of the forum/updates/fixes/database etc

Hidden Section: Moderator delete/modify/discuss threads

Suggestion: Donations buttons for Barry and John, if they are agreeable

Hopefully that should look quite tidy??

Please can we discuss sensibly, don't just tear holes in my effort, - compare with other offerings, or simply amend/modify/insert your ideas
Let me know if there are glaring omissions that will affect the structure

We need to find something that is -
A) Acceptable to our host
B) User friendly
C) Admin easy [as easy as]
D) update-able
E) Intuitively conveyable to other Admins
F) Does the job

OK, a starter - next?

Personal note: Sole comment as a result of recent events - I am sad that we seem to have lost the input, energy and enthusiasm of 2 users who worked quite hard at achieving the 1st PLUG, and who may have copped undue blame for those events - I hope for reconciliation/reconsideration
I would hope they can still come back as valued members of the team We have a huge task to do, and as of right now, there's just my bit of energy - help!

Aitch

[WhoDo]

OK, a starter - next?

It's nice to see some enthusiasm, Aitch.

I have a suggestion, though. Let's not reinvent the wheel as it were. Much of what you asked for is already available in the existing wiki. If that also becomes the initial point of contact for newbies, then a host of problems are avoided.

As for categories on the forum, it might be best to organise by category first rather than Puppy/Puplet version. With so many versions of Puppy, each would need their own sub-threads for each problem category such as network drivers, video graphics, hardware issues, printing problems, etc. Instead create only those 4 or 5 main categories and have sub-categories for the main stream versions plus one for puplets. The PLUG cannot afford to take on support for every Puplet abandoned by its creator IMHO.

Just my $0.02c to keep the discussion happening. The proposed Admins need to get together with the suggestions from here and come up with a proposed structure that John can implement. Certainly we can ask for user feedback on anything we may have missed, but in the end decisions have to be made for all by the few and that is the unfortunate truth to organisation of any sort. The best we can hope for is pleasing most of the users most of the time, nothing more.

@Béèm - are you willing to join the PLUG Admin team as suggested by John? We could certainly use your connections with the Francophiles of Puppy.