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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 08:37    Post subject:  
tlchost wrote:
Stripe wrote:
would it not be better to keep plug onsite so users can find it easier? (as a lot of links for help point here already)

Yea...but since John Murga has emphatically stated that the PLUD will not be hosted here, and we just went through the experience of a moderator creating untold damage to the PLUG effort, this may not be a healthy home for the PLUG.

Seems that thread with JohnMurga's post is gone too.
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 449
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 10:52    Post subject:  
theres the PLUG: Puppy Linux Users Group

theres an PUG:Puppy Linux Users
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68436

Who overrides the other if they disagree?
Will it be mob rules - most members win?

Is THE PUG - unofficial group - puplets/pups?

puppyluvr
Quote:
If necessary, this may lead to a community edition of Puppy, to satisfy user requests...Official Puppy is just that..Official, mainstream, whatever...

You want a Puppy Linux "Users Edition"...
Lets go...


and THE PLUG - official group - official puppies?

Or can there be bunch of groups broken down by special interest groups?
I just an little confused - Confused
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 11:05    Post subject:  
We all are, harii4. puppyluvr had joined the PLUG users group. All I know is that everyone should work together as one group. I don't think there is any competition intended, just a bunch of people who think this is a good idea and tried to do something about it.

On the one hand, murga is where the users and developers mostly go so it makes sense to be hosted here. On the other hand, an offsite build will prevent this circus behavior so it makes sense to go elsewhere. What to do...

Anyway I am taking a brief emotional break from this because I am truly disgusted at how we were treated and not just by Bruce.

No good deed goes unpunished, ehh?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 11:26    Post subject:  
harii4 , here on John Murga Puuppy forum there is only one PLUG.

Puppyite started his own version maybe that is the one you refer to as the other?

You have to ask him about his aim and goal and agenda with that one

While we talk about there being two such PLUG.

Would this John deMurga PLUG see me as not loyal if I out of curiosity did join the other PLUG too for to be a kind of cover all possibilities?

I mean if them catch a Dev that don't want to be active here? Just in case?

No harm intended.
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 449
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 11:47    Post subject:  
Quote:
theres an PUG:Puppy Linux Users
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68436


I messed up its the "PUPPY USERS GROUP" not "Puppy Linux Users"
I was hopeing on two groups (official / unofficial) - one sounded like more relaxed and fun. Smile

Quote:
Would this John deMurga PLUG see me as not loyal if I out of curiosity did join the other PLUG too for to be a kind of cover all possibilities?

I mean if them catch a Dev that don't want to be active here? Just in case?

Hey - thats an good plan Very Happy
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 12:13    Post subject:  
I am so noisy that I edit the posts below this one and refer to the one below

russoodle thanks then I get it. Good that you corrected me. Smile
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Last edited by nooby on Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:24; edited 2 times in total
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russoodle


Joined: 12 Sep 2008
Posts: 717
Location: Down-Under in South Oz
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 12:14    Post subject:  
Hello again, Nooby...

Harii4 is right, he is referring to another thread titled PUG, which Puppyluvr started last month here, which is in no way connected to Puppyite's.
Wink
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 12:18    Post subject:  
big_bass wrote:
WhoDo
Quote:
there was a cacophony of voices clamoring to be heard on the subject of what Puppy could or should be. In the beginning it was easy to pick out the voices of reason, but in the end there was so much "sound" that it became almost impossible to "hear" what was good, and reasonable, and important above the din. It became abusive to my ears when some elected to follow the path of repetition in monotones and I grew tired of listening very quickly. There is a lesson in that for those who are willing to learn.


whereas I believe whodo has good intentions and sees the obvious downfall of the forum
looks like we havent learned maybe I shouldnt comment in the heat of the turmoil
but I decided to anyway but with the goal of making something positive out of this mess I think whoodo is a good guy that has first hand been in the hot seat and had time to reflect on the outcome


what I can see positive is let a scratch pad PLUG of all this continue without deleting anything elect a responsible person to cut and paste only the productive stuff to a read only page PLUG wish list so that we dont embarrass ourselves with only the griping and bickering for those that havent the time to filter though the gobbly gook

where do I fit in to this is I will read productive comments (someone else besides me has professionally filtered to a read only page)

if I can I will add those ideas into whatever I do
a good idea is a good idea



remember that the PLUG scratch pad everyone is free to comment even if nobody agrees with them

and PLUG wish list is read only of only the productive points--- non deletable Very Happy



Joe


Here it is. Very good suggestion by Joe big_bass
from here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=542461#542461
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Last edited by nooby on Mon 11 Jul 2011, 16:43; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:13    Post subject:  
shariebeth wrote:
We all are, harii4. puppyluvr had joined the PLUG users group. All I know is that everyone should work together as one group. I don't think there is any competition intended, just a bunch of people who think this is a good idea and tried to do something about it.

On the one hand, murga is where the users and developers mostly go so it makes sense to be hosted here. On the other hand, an offsite build will prevent this circus behavior so it makes sense to go elsewhere. What to do...

Anyway I am taking a brief emotional break from this because I am truly disgusted at how we were treated and not just by Bruce.

No good deed goes unpunished, ehh?


The thread where John deMurga gave his last word on PLUG and where it should be hosted that thread is now restored and locked

Named Moderation and I give link here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=542670#542670

John writes

Quote:
although I believe that a PLUG is worthwhile, I have seen nothing good come out of the current setup, so I am also opposed to formalizing it with the creation of PLUG sub forums or groups on this forum.

With that in mind I have deleted the PLUG user group, which was also created without my knowledge.

Feel free to post and discuss the PLUG as much as you want, but it won’t be hosted here.

Cheers
John de Murga


in the post above the one I link to.
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Last edited by nooby on Mon 11 Jul 2011, 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:18    Post subject:  
So the most practical thing then is to do as Joe Big Bass suggested.

We have the scrap book in the PLUG thread in Puppy Project part and then the formal lists and such on tlchost's server?

That way we reach the Devs here at puppy forum in the informal way them used to but the formal way and the more structured part that some Devs demand is at a link outside of this forum. That seems fair to me.

That way there will be no noise on the tlchost formal PLUG files. Those Devs that want to read a well edited lists of what PLUG want to happen get a well thought presentation there at tlchost that the PLUG has total control over.

Here at JohnMurga Puppy forum PLUG thread we have the free flow and laid back to and fro discussion as the Puppy tradition seems to favor.
Everybody get what them want.
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Last edited by nooby on Sun 10 Jul 2011, 15:36; edited 2 times in total
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 449
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:42    Post subject:  
How will PLUG handle all the different kinds of puppies?
DPUP,SPUP,UPUP and ect...
Will they all be lump together or be handle separately?
by Sub-groups?
What works in one might not work in all the pups?

maybe the team might have not gotten that far yet?
Sorry - Not trying to rush.
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 449
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:45    Post subject:  
Oops extra post Embarassed
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Last edited by harii4 on Sun 10 Jul 2011, 14:50; edited 1 time in total
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6815
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2011, 09:41    Post subject:  
I am replacing a post I made that was in the deleted threads

Great examples of ideas which often don't get noticed

edoc wrote:
edoc wrote:

I have been experimenting with Midori as well and find little reason to choose the much larger Seamonkey browser over the compact-Midori -- the challenge is Claws -- I am not yet comfortable with it and wish there was a script to link between the two (because I always forget the simple steps - I need to print and ring-binder them).


Here is the solution that I found to link Claws & Midori:

/root/Choices/URI

Copy "mailto" and name the copy "imailto"

I don't know why this is not done by default.


my reply

Aitch wrote:
edoc wrote:
I don't know why this is not done by default.


Probably because so many elegant, simple solutions like that, get buried in threads like this and the devs never see it....?

One of the key reasons for the idea for PLUG proposed by WhoDo

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69437

Users views welcome!

Aitch Smile


more, which prompted the post, and I've had to deal with this, as the deletions left a dead thread/new post linking nowhere

edoc wrote:
A central repository of hints, tips, and tricks would be extremely valuable - IF properly labeled for the distro and for any dependencies - no assuming that the reader knows what's on your machine.

The devs could then look there for patterns of valued features - and perhaps methods to meet them.

The Puppeee PetStore is nice - but the challenge is to keep it current. Also, core apps e.g. Claws and Midori have updates but there is not a section in the Puppeee Petstore where those updates are available - and they have been tweaked to not damage setting and archives. (I know that Jemimah is busy with life for a while - it's not a criticism - I just thought the Petstore was a good example of a nice idea that needs more support - and an expanded mission).


Reproduced with permission, after pm

When we get sorted this can be moved/removed/edited, whatever

Keep the ideas coming, please

Aitch Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2011, 17:21    Post subject:  
Here is some naive thinking me have done. Only a hasty sketch but it does have some merit


1. Some Devs want structured suggestions that are sorted by somebody them can trust. What them are disappointed with now is
that it is a mess of too many voices. Too much to sift through. Them have no time or motivation to do it.

2. But one need no formal PLUG with a strict hierarchy to take care of such needs. One only need a few decent and experienced Puppy forum members that do volunteer sorting of such noise and them having a common thread about it and the Devs can look in that thread.

3. Now that is a start but sadly such a start is too vulnerable to noise from Nooby and others that have too low quality suggestions.

So the easy solution is to start such thread and under supervision of Flash it get locked after the creation and on it is a link to blogs from these volunteer experienced members that take upon themselves to sort out the good wheat from all the Nooby chaff.

Them being the owners of the Blog means them have total control over each blog. That way them can allow or disallow any comment on those blogs. Like Barry do now. Very handy and no need to host on some server one get dependent on. Very flexible. One change to another free blog if something happen to the first.

If I was an experienced such puppy forum member then I would start a Blog outside of Puppy and there add text after text with good suggestions and link to the post that Flash set up and locked.

Set up that way the Devs does not need to read all the noise at all. Them click on the link in the single thread and ignore the noise on the forum and see the good lists of sorted suggestion on the blog.

4. If a few dedicated members do such sorting that would be enough. Each Dev learn how to trust each such volunteer and that way them can chose where to look first and get exact the preferred sorter them learn to trust ...

I ramble too much but it is a working solution.
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2889
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2011, 23:29    Post subject:  
nooby wrote:
Here is some naive thinking me have done. Only a hasty sketch but it does have some merit


Good thoughts, Nooby!

Quote:

1. Some Devs want structured suggestions that are sorted by somebody them can trust. What them are disappointed with now is
that it is a mess of too many voices. Too much to sift through. Them have no time or motivation to do it.


If you look at some of the threads (such as poor ttuuxxx, and his 214 Top8 thread), there's really too much going on to really keep up.

So, as you say, they (i.e. PLUG coordinators) need to collect the bugs, queries, and suggestions, and organize them so the Devs don't need to wade through hundreds of pages of posts, in order to find the suggestions, and determine their importance.

Perhaps the bugs/suggestions can be dropped into a simple, concise lookup table, and have the PLUG coordinators rank their opinion of importance, leaving a space for each Dev to add their ranking, if they wish.

And remember, when ranking them, if EVERY item is a "priority", then "none of them are priorities".

e.g. (9=high, 0=low) [sorry, can't make a really nice looking table in the text]

Code:
type / what / replication? / importance-PLUG / dev1 /dev2 /dev3

bug / Puppy crashes when I open seamonkey / every time / 9 / 8 / 3 / 8

suggestion / make pfix=fsck work on encrypted volumes / NA / 5 / 3 / 0 / 1


And the bug/suggestion could link the the post reporting or requesting some action.

(hmmm, I see that dev2 is really curmudgeonly on importance... Laughing )
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