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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Other Distros
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 20:59    Post subject: LinuxMint (Probably Any Major Distro) vs. Puppy  

Maybe it's what you're used to. But as I've posted several times I have LinuxMint on my computer and almost never boot into it. If you need an application someone hasn't already created for Puppy maybe the package manager of a major distro will make life easier than Puppy Package Manager. [I don't have sufficient experience with scottman's pkg-cli to compare it]. In all other respects, I don't think major distros offer any advantage to newbies.

LinuxMint is a highly rated and unquestionably solid distro which is why I chose it. But yesterday I decided to boot into it and bring it up to speed. It does provide an module notifying you that there are upgrades available. Nice feature. A new, and recommended, kernel upgrade was available. Under Puppies, I can manually change kernels in less than five minutes; and newer Puppies can use an app, LinuxMint took over 20 minutes, during which I sat around twiddling my thumbs as I didn't want to do anything that might interfere with the process. Of course, just in case something went wrong, before doing any upgrade I wanted to 'backup' my functioning system. Under Puppy's modular system changing kernels doesn't alter the rest of your system so a backup isn't necessary. But when a backup is prudent, that means backing up my SaveFile/Folder. Puppies backup applications can do that in a minute or two. LinuxMint has 'time-shift' which, if I understand it correctly, creates an image of your current system. If you haven't done that in a while during which there have been many changes --upgrades to applications or their components, etc.-- expect to twiddle your thumbs for quite a while.

If something went wrong under Puppy, you can boot 'pfix=ram", remove the bk-xxxx ending from the backup-SaveFile's name and reboot into your functioning system. I've yet to figure out what to do with the time-shifts I've created under LinuxMint.

The upgrade manager told me that about 10 other upgrades were available. Then it wasn't able to access the repos which supposedly had them (or the needed components were missing from my default repos). So I had to use synaptic to change my default repos. More time wasted.

Maybe all that is second nature if you're used to how a major distro works. But if your coming from Windows I think learning how to do things under recent Puppies would actually be easier.

Perhaps Puppies only other disadvantage are their use of rox. Rox has some unique ways of managing files. However, AFAIK, xfe can be installed into any Puppy, series 5 or above. It has little overhead and provides a stylish, easily understood file-manager. [Not that there's anything wrong with rox other than its learning curve. It's all I use].
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2177

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2019, 20:35    Post subject:  

I've just installed the latest version of Devuan, 2.1. The software is a bit behind the curve (it has LibreOffice 5.2.7.2, for example, and Palemoon needs to be the Debian 9 version in order to be able to install on it), but it still works well.

Devuan 2.1 offers you a choice of init system, either sysvinit or Open RC, when you install it. Worth considering for older computers in particular, or for anyone who wants to avoid using systemd.

[EDIT: one quirk it has though is that when it's booting up, the screen goes blank for at least a minute before displaying the login screen. The first time this happened, I switched the computer off because I was convinced something had gone wrong.]

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Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2177

PostPosted: Sun 08 Dec 2019, 17:38    Post subject:  

Another good one for older computers; there's a new beta of the forthcoming edition of ELive, 3.8.1, which is free in the 32-bit version (though you have to wait two hours for a download link, which is emailed to you) and which I'm posting from now. I'm using it live because at the moment I don't have any space left on my hard drive to install it.

It uses the E16 version of Enlightenment for its window manager, and looks good for a distro designed to work on older computers though I had some difficulty getting it to find a suitable driver for my video card and had to make do with the "open" one (which seems to work well enough). There are some random clicks and noises whenever you move the cursor to certain areas of the desktop, which I find a bit disconcerting although there's probably a way to turn them off, and also a puffing sound whenever you click on the menus (which I quite like).

In summary, it's definitely worth a look if you've got an older computer and are willing to try something a bit different; it's clear that a lot of thought, time and effort have gone into it. There is also a 64-bit version, but you need to give a donation to get the download link for that one.

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Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2019, 01:11    Post subject: Other Distros  

I've been running PCLinuxOS XFCE4 on my HP desktop pc.

Computer
Processor 4x Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-6100T CPU @ 3.20GHz
Memory 3898MB (609MB used)
Operating System PCLinuxOS

Display
Resolution 1920x1080 pixels
OpenGL Renderer Mesa DRI Intel(R) HD Graphics 530 (Skylake GT2)
X11 Vendor The X.Org Foundation

Version
Kernel Linux 5.4.6-pclos1 (x86_64)
Compiled #1 SMP Sat Dec 21 05:08:30 CST 2019

Updates are available for downloading frequently, latest kernel today.
No problems so far.
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 731
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2019, 05:06    Post subject:  

Welcome back Billtoo - been a while:)
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2177

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2019, 07:12    Post subject:  

There's a new release of AntiX, 19.1, out now just in time for Christmas. I'm posting from it now and it's working well so far although I haven't installed it yet.
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1743

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2019, 06:21    Post subject:  

Well, I finally took the plunge.

For $228 I bought the latest Ipad 7th generation, 10.2 inch (not the Ipad Pro). Also bought the new Apple case that has their built-in keyboard, which unfolds and becomes an instant desktop PC.

Reasons I bought the Ipad: namely, the release of IpadOS and version 13.3. Specifically, both bluetooth and 2.4GHz wireless keyboards and mice, plus connecting USB drives and such, they all connect to the IpadOS without any problem. That surprised me. Along with the changing nature of the IpadOS look, feel and structure (I've been using an Iphone since summer 2007).

Setting the Ipad 7th Generation up like a desktop (I decided to connect via Ethernet), I was blown away. Apple has a real---excuse the pun--desktop killer here. Sure, this won't occur for us Puppy/Linux diehards, but for 99.99% of the world's consumers, it becomes an interesting standard.

Most everything of what my family does on the web (music, browsing, video watching, secure-financial doings, calling, etc) all are handled easily within the IpadOS. And it all follows them around the house. Aided by the incredible ecosystems of apps that all companies have put into the Apple Store since the birth of the Iphone back 13 years ago, well, lookout everyone else.

And as far as things like gaming go, it's foolish to think for one second that tablets aren't (if not almost already there) going to be able to handle even the most demanding games. To think that thought is to not have lived thru the 90s and 2000s incredible technological leaps in computing. Yes, the IpadOS is not an Xbox and/or high-end PC competitor, but like I said, ignore technological change at our own peril. Using IpadOS feels like being in on the ground floor when I first had an Iphone back in the summer of 2007. Things are going to change radically over the next few years.

I know this may be heresy, but I believe the whole Linux Universe needs to stop focusing on desktops and start attacking tablets (and, of course, phone worlds). No wonder Ubuntu/Debian and Fedora/OpenSUSE have been having this conversation more frequently every year, themselves not ever sure how to proceed.

Apple is landing & has landed squarely on Linux' beach (not to mention Microsoft's---now the Surface & SurfacePro push over the past 2 years by Microsoft makes perfect sense). Here's a glimpse: I can carry this new desktop Ipad to any HDTV in the house, and immediately start streaming (or connect via HDMI) & start watching all of the content we subscribe to. I can carry it and take a video (or picture) anywhere. And, yet, still, the desktop OS of IpadOS is still in my hands everywhere I go. I walk back to my desk, the Ipad with IpadOS immediately becomes a desktop PC again, handling nearly 99.99% of everything I do on a desktop OS. Furthermore, this can happen anywhere in the world I happen to be at the moment.

Yes, this is a game-changer........
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 3108

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2019, 07:29    Post subject:  

belham2 wrote:
For $228 I bought the latest Ipad 7th generation, 10.2 inch


For $228??? Where???

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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1743

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2019, 09:57    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
belham2 wrote:
For $228 I bought the latest Ipad 7th generation, 10.2 inch


For $228??? Where???


Here is/was an example:
https://us.cnn.com/2019/11/25/cnn-underscored/ipad-black-friday-deals-7th-generation/index.html

(Got mine on a Amazon-Walmart-BestBuy Price Match Policy)

On and off, the $228-229 specials on the latest Ipad 7th Generation 32GB have been and, according to Apple and retailers, will be run again.

My wife is now diligently watching and waiting to snag the 128GB model for $329 on the next sale.

Of course, she is going to get my 32GB model and not know it...lol.
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 2190
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2019, 18:47    Post subject:  

Belham2:

This can be set up as LAN?!?!
How is that done... no reference to a jack... lightning connector?

Curious
8Geee

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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1743

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2019, 21:26    Post subject:  

8Geee wrote:
Belham2:

This can be set up as LAN?!?!
How is that done... no reference to a jack... lightning connector?

Curious
8Geee



----via Lightning to USB Adapter, made by Apple and others. I stick to Apple's stuff, as some 3rd party stuff people have had problems with (read Amazon's reviews). With the USB Adapter (which has both a USB 3.0 port and an USB-C port, to bring in a charger cable from your iphone/ipad charger), and any USB-3 to ethernet dongle attached to it, ethernet is fast as my desktop OSes.

I've been connecting my iphone this way since about Fall of 2016, for anything sensitive I want to do while on the road, avoiding wifi altogether. Apple introduced ethernet ability to all Apple Iphone & Ipad devices back in 2016, ios 10 iirc.

But truthfully, I no longer worry about ethernet with the ipadOS. I used Cloudfare 1.1.1.1 + Warp. It's free. 1.1.1.1+Warp works a treat, providing VPN-encryption & DNS services from your device up to Cloudfare's server closest to you on it's backbone. This is NOT full VPN, hiding your identity; it is just protecting you (DNS & encryption) in the all important local network.

Still, if wifi goes down, or for some reason I want ethernet, it takes all of two seconds to plug the lightning to usb adapter in, then plug in a USB Sabrent, no powered, 4 port USB-3 hub into it along with the USB-C power cable coming from my ipad or iphone charger (which provides power for all, lightning to USB-3 port cable included). Then I grab a USB 3.0 ethernet adapter, plug into it the Sabrent, plus plugin any USB thumbdrives/USB hard drives I might want plugged also inot the Sabrent. In all,, I am good to go.

Regarding IpadOS, Apple overall (both iphones and Ipads) have really has a tight walled garden...there's no way to screw with the code on all the apps you install which can only come from the Apple Store. As all these apps exist inside their own cocooned container within the cocooned IpadOS itself, it is nigh impossible (at the moment) to modify any unless you are the app developer.

I only use the big apps of the companies that I implicitly trust & do business with. I never touch anything else. Actually feel more secure on this than i do using a Linux/Pup OSes & hardened browser to access all the secure financial, health and investment stuff. Especially the financial/investment stuff.

For IpadOS, all the biggies provide their own apps. which not only use the normal login & password login all OS browsers use, but also uses your thumbprint and/or your face (your choice with most apps) to harden the apps and thus your accounts. it prevents any future login on any other device, period) without that thumbprint and/or face coming thru the encrypted app & the IpadOS. And since Apple just rolled U2F-Fido into the IpadOS, the level of security just racheted up another notch, a huge notch (see paragraph**). Overall, it makes using hardened Firefox, Palemoon browsers on OSes, Pup, Linux and/or otherwise, look positively behind the times security-wise, imho.

Even further, a thumbprint and/or face can become a more lock-downed 2fa on your investment/financial/helath account apps within the ipadOS itself. This is the jewel everyone is seeing and is starting to realize.

**Add into the above fact that Apple, with the latest 13.3 IpadOS release a few weeks back, just integrated full-on U2F-FIDO (i.e. Yubikey) into the whole Apple IpadOS ecosystem. Thus it is just a matter of time till U2F-FIDO becomes way more widely adopted than it is currently. (Disclosure: I use Fido-U2F on my email accounts, for about 3-4 years now).

Apple's size will make U2F-FIDO become the widely adopted de facto security standard. And it's about time, no less. Companies are currently re-jiggering their apps like crazy to take advantage of this U2F ability throughout the IpadOS ecosystem. Example: I'm beta testing an IpadOS app right now from my financial institution that has U2F-FIDO as the 2fa, but get this----my fingerprint is the 1st line of getting into the app (and thus logging in). My U2F-Fido key is the 2nd line of defense, hence the 2f. The old way of logging in, with names & passwords, I no longer will be using. They are son to be a thing of the past. It is clear this will, within a year or two, become the norm for many large players in the world who participate in the Apple ecosystem with apps (which is virtually everyone in the USA except the big gorilla Google).

Compared to the what occurred on a hardened laptop I used to use for all my (and my family's) this sensitive online stuff, with logins and passwords, this all is exciting not to mention comforting, providing a peace of mind that doesn't exist no matter what one does with a Linux/Pup OS & subsequent browser installed on it.


This (everything above) is what I meant when I said Apple has "landed on the beaches on Normandy", so to speak. Going forward, the Ipad with IpadOS (along with ubiquitous iphone) is going to be even tougher to ignore. No wonder Buffett bought several billions worth of Apple stock when it was $170-$190 a share. At the time I thought he was crazy, given the markets overall levels and such. But now, it looks like he was crazy like the fox, as Apple is near $300 with another (2 or 3) for 1 split soon to be hitting shareholders (the board already gave permission for the split, it's just a question of if and when now).

I know people who are and have been "short" Apple, which, at 10-11 months ago, I thought was a viable trade/investment. But after seeing what Apple is doing with IpadOS and also the medical/health combo stuff to be hitting the iphone, it all makes me realize that possibly the next 10-20 years (or possibly more) are Apple's to lose.



[Disclaimer: I am no Apple fanboy, especially not a Microsoft and/or Google/Android one, and I hope to be the Puppy & Derivatives FanBoy until I pass from this Earth. But, that said, it is hard to ignore how Apple has slightly but significantly pivoted & shifted these past 2-3 years. Hyperbole aside, today is truly the beginning of the end for the desktop, and never before I have ever felt that. My first laptop I bought and used in HongKong in 1989, and I never (like others) saw a path to obsoleting/replacing the desktop. But, now, with IpadOS (and the understanding now of why MSFT is laser-focused on its Surface & Surface-Pro push and optimizing Win10 for it, and not the desktop), the future picture is becoming clearer. All opinions are my own in this post]
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1743

PostPosted: Mon 30 Dec 2019, 06:14    Post subject:  

[followup# from previous post]

For anyone interested, things like this dock (Amazon link below) already exist and exemplify what will continue to come down the pike for the Apple IpadOS (and will extend to phones soon) & Apple devices:

https://www.amazon.com/Docking-Baseus-Aluminum-Charging-Headphone/dp/B07TWG4F56/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=ipad+usb-c+hub&qid=1577700561&sr=8-6 (this works on both Ipad Pro with its USB-C port, and also with regular Ipads via a small USB-C to Lightning adapter. This is another option rather than just using the Lightning-to-USB3 Adapter cable I currently am using on my new 7th Generation Ipad cum Desktop OS Replacement (UPDATE: Firefox and DuckDuckGo browsers fly on IpadOS, have tested both, and they are excellent alternative to Safari. Chrome browser is just as fast too. Wow, Apple & the IpadOS is changing how I think about everything).


The IpadOS desktop, powerful, sleek, follows you anywhere, no longer need a dedicated computer desk/station (anywhere) in the house and/or travelling.
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ras

Joined: 30 Oct 2019
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon 30 Dec 2019, 23:09    Post subject:  

Hi Belham
Quote:

Actually feel more secure on this than i do using a Linux/Pup OSes & hardened browser to access all the secure financial, health and investment stuff.


What are your thoughts about being secure from anything @ apple?

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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1743

PostPosted: Tue 31 Dec 2019, 05:16    Post subject:  

ras wrote:
Hi Belham
Quote:

Actually feel more secure on this than i do using a Linux/Pup OSes & hardened browser to access all the secure financial, health and investment stuff.


What are your thoughts about being secure from anything @ apple?



Hi Ras,

The Iphone/IpadOS that has been developed for years, yes, imho, the way it is structured, developed and deployed, there is no desktop OS that approaches (save for Qubes, which is a frigging nightmare to use and stay on top of---don't ask me, lol, how I know). You have to sit down and conceptually draw-out on paper how Apple handles device-OS development, actual OS coding with the idea security comes first in the OS, and then how deployment of those devices & OS system is handled. It will then dawn on you what Apple is doing from a security-perspective.

Quite simply, until Google & Android get their sh#t together regarding how Android is developed (not to mention coded), along with rubbish-binning the current structure of Android Store and apps, Apple (and a coming back Microsoft) are going to be romping through the world's cities & forests alone together.


Now, all the above said, if you are talking about desktop MacOS (i.e. like High Sierra and stuff), then, no, it is open and vulnerable to all the same problems as all Microsoft/Linux desktop OSes over the years. The problem is how the desktop OS is structured.

Interestingly, just a few years ago, Microsoft gave the "reactionary" hint (when they got wind of what Apple was thinking and going to deploy) in which direction things were moving OS and devices-wise. Anyone remember that recent Windows 10 S mode???

Good ole' MSFT was directly trying to imitate & copy what Apple had already been doing with Iphone/IpadOS.
This stuff is now second nature to Apple's ecosystem, for both developers and end-user customers. The same cannot be said anywhere else in terms of OS develoment and especially deployment. This is including the Linux world (unless you want to talk about obscurely and uber-small Linux distros, which don't even count because their market share is less than 1/1,000,000th (or worse) of Apple's.

Microsoft just flatout dropped the "S" designation, and is just going to go full bore in that direction without giving it some letter-designation. It is why MSFT has decided to focus a significant swath of their next 10 years budget towards the Surface and Surface-Pro and most especially a behind-the-scenes tweaked Win10 that will run on those devices (and Microsoft phones).

Increasingly, businesses have already and currently are turning to this....they deploy IpadPros and SurfacePros to arm their employees. You don't need to look further than companies locally all around you----heck, gulp, even the absolutely caveman behind-the-times U.S. Military is pushing tablet adoption throughout the various branches. Many small local businesses my family and i frequent do not use a desktop. They use an IpadPro and/or SurfacePro along with iphone/mst-phone/Android phone. There is no desktop anywhere. This is and has been the whole idea of the Cloud, which people still don't truly get. In Europe, this trend (no desktops) is even more advanced (disclaimer: I am a denizen of both US & EU).

So, Desktops (and every concomitant thing that comes with them)?? Load the truck up, boys! Take a few to the Smithsonian, the rest scrap and recycle anything possible.

Desktops (unlike predictions back in the early and late 2000-2010 period) will within a decade be dinosaurs on the technological road of rapid change....honestly, the confluence of events to make this happen is happening now and thus will make desktop obsolescence occur in little as another decade, in my opinion.

Desktops, laptops, et all will be relegated only to holdovers----much like we all are here using Puppy Linux on old desktops/laptops!! I guess in that way this is GOOD NEWS for us Puppians here. Our worldwide computing market share will increase from 0.0003% to 0.0004% Laughing Thus I'm not sure if the servers John (murga) rents/hires will be handle the massive inflow of refugees, and nurse them through their old age until death finally becomes us all.

(All opinions are my own Wink )
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1874
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 31 Dec 2019, 10:04    Post subject:  

Apple operating systems are hacked and modified Linux.

Apple and "security" is like saying Elon Musk is alone behind StarLink or the NSA doesn't know your name.

How many servers run OSx or OSi.... in business or the Internet?
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