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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Applications that make Legacy OS 2 Great!
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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gnomic

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun 2011, 06:07    Post subject: fail to boot Legacy OS 2  

Wild stab in the dark - using a rewriteable CD can cause problems. Perhaps try with a plain old CD-R? Your optical drive is on the vintage side possibly as well, assuming the CD-RW was written on it.

Does this machine by any chance have the video chip integrated on the motherboard? That might account for the apparent RAM discrepancy. Perhaps some system RAM is being 'stolen'. On some machines it is possible to select the amount of system RAM being used for video via the BIOS.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun 2011, 08:00    Post subject:  

1. "Perhaps try with a plain old CD-R?"
(a) This optical drive is used to burn CD-RW disks for ALL the other Puppies I've tried, and they generally work.
I've no reason to suspect the use of CD-RW disks is causing a problem.

(b) I'd rather not waste a CD-R, when I expect such a burn to fail.
Need better than a "Wild stab in the dark" to justify the probable waste.

2. "Your optical drive is on the vintage side possibly as well, assuming the CD-RW was written on it."
(a) This optical drive is one of the newest items in this PC.
It has served me superbly well.
The other optical is an older Samsung CD-R/RW SW-252F.

3. "Does this machine by any chance have the video chip integrated on the motherboard?"
(a) NO, the video out is from a card:
nVidia Corporation NV5M64 [RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro] (Rev 15)
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gnomic

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2011, 00:51    Post subject: unable boot Legacy  

Ah well, if you don't want to waste a cd-r . . . go on man, throw another sixpence on the fire as my old dad from Glasgow used to say.

Perhaps try the disc you have on some other computer if you can find one for such an experiment. If it works, then you know Legacy doesn't like some aspect of your computer. Have you tried booting from both optical drives? Is this the same brand of disc as previously found reliable?

Of course you have burned the disc at the lowest possible speed? 4x good, 32x possibly bad. I normally use burniso2cd at 4x or 8x.

No doubt your Pioneer is a very fine drive. However I find optical drives seem rather prone to failure. It's not surprising as they have exacting work to do while spinning the media. I think I have one of these in my collection of salvage, and it works OK with DVDs but not CDs.

As to the misreported RAM, just a guess about integrated video. Might be worth running a memory testing utility, perhaps one of the sticks is partly bad.
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2byte

Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2011, 10:42    Post subject:  

Quote:
Buffer I/O error on hdc, logical block 664


Your CD-RW disk is bad, at least that has been my experience when that error is reported. Had it happen just recently on a disk that had only been used once before, then had two more disks out of the same ten pack that were bad from the factory.

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2011, 14:48    Post subject:  

1. OK, I burned legacy-os-2.iso to a Sony CD-R.

And it behaved EXACTLY the same as the CD-RW.
Hence it is now WASTED. [Exactly as I expected] Sad

2. "Is this the same brand of disc as previously found reliable?"
YES, I use the same 8 CD-RW disks = 700MB 4x Tuffdisk grade A+ CD-RW.


3. "Of course you have burned the disc at the lowest possible speed? 4x good"
YES, burn speed = 4x [chosen automatically by Burniso2cd]
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gnomic

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 02:19    Post subject: trouble every day  

Hmmm. Did you try booting from each of the drives, ie the Samsung as well as the Pioneer?

Could be time to start removing system components from the equation. What about booting with power removed from the disk drives? No need to remove the drives, just pull the power leads from the drives temporarily (with the machine powered down of course).

What else is on the system in terms of an OS or OS's? Any unusual boot loader arrangements?

No chance of trying your discs on some other machine? Is your copy of Legacy OS 2 dodgy, or does L OS2 not like your particular hardware?
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 04:14    Post subject:  

1. "Did you try booting from each of the drives, ie the Samsung as well as the Pioneer?"
No, I'll try the other optical drive [Samsung] immediately I've finished here.

2. "Could be time to start removing system components from the equation. What about booting with power removed from the disk drives?"
Seems like the hardware is being made a suspect, when the obvious suspect [Legacy OS 2] is being let off the hook.
I have NEVER had a single reason to suspect this hardware...
Not since I was given it and discovered it needed a more powerful PSU [it wouldn't complete POST reliably], which I fitted, and that fixed the problem.
Again, I'd need to be given a better reason than guesses to make me mess with hardware that works perfectly well with [almost] all other OS's.

3. "What else is on the system in terms of an OS or OS's?"
(a) Windows 2000 Pro on the 1st partition [of 3] on the 1st internal HDD [sda1].
(b) Various pupsaves+SFS, each filepair in suitably named folders in the root folder of the ONLY partition on the 2nd internal HDD [sdb2].
I'm puzzled why it has been designated sdb2. Confused

4. "Any unusual boot loader arrangements?"
None made; none needed.
Win2000Pro is the only OS installed to an internal HDD [the 1st partition, and its boot flag is set].

5. "No chance of trying your discs on some other machine?"
Hmm, I'd rather not ask my neighbor to boot this disk on his PC.
May just do it though.

6. "Is your copy of Legacy OS 2 dodgy"
Don't see why it would be so.
The md5sum checked OK.
Use the same everything as with other Puppy ISO's etc, and almost all of them work just fine.
Usually the problem Puppies have a kernel that doesn't work with my hardware.
e.g. I had to use the Wary-511-k2.6.31.14-uniproc-ide.iso version.

7. "or does L OS2 not like your particular hardware?"
That's my guess. Sad
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 05:48    Post subject:  

SUCCESS! Very Happy Of sorts.

1. Tried going into the BIOS Setup with the idea of changing the boot optical drive...
But realized it would be necessary to make the drive the Master.
But no, I remembered I had a "Smart Boot Manager" [SBM] bootable floppy that would allow me to choose which of the available drives to boot.

2. Booted the SBM floppy and chose to boot the 2nd optical drive [Samsung connected and jumpered as Secondary->Slave].
Legacy OS 2 booted! Cool
And it looks SUPERB! Very Happy
No wonder people like it, and it's going up the popularity charts.

3. Unable to get it to boot any other way. Sad
Won't boot unless I use SBM...
The CD-RW won't boot [whether in the DVD-RW drive, or CD-RW drive] even if I use SBM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Seems there's no way to make the Linux filesystem inside the pup_save anything other than ext2.
I'd like to make it ext3.

5. How do I start the firewall and connect to the web?
Seems to work differently to the usual Puppy.

6. MUST go explore Legacy OS 2. Very Happy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back from some exploration:
7. I notice the pup_save MUST be held in the root folder of the partition.
All my other Puppies are inside their own folder in the root.
Pity, but I can live with it, since it's the only Puppy with files in there.

8. Discovered how to start the Firewall and connect to the web via ETH0 [Network Interface Card connecting to router and broadband modem].

9. Tried using Opera.
Somewhat different to my usual Firefox, therefore strange to me.
Not sure how things should be done in Opera.
e.g. How do I stop the [high CPU usage] advert in the Puppy home page.

10. I normally use Xfe as my file explorer.
Do the available alternatives native to Legacy-OS-2 have twin filepanes that can be used to copy-to/move-to from one location to another?

11. Will it be possible to use this method so that a pupsave on an internal HDD will be treated as though a pupsave on a Flash Drive?
So I can choose if/when to save during-the session, and whether "to save or not to save" at shut-down/reboot?
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1470
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 10:13    Post subject:  

Hello Sylvander,
Sorry Legacy OS 2 has been such a pain to get going. Thank you for not giving up and getting Legacy booted up to the desktop.

Quote:
10. I normally use Xfe as my file explorer.
Do the available alternatives native to Legacy-OS-2 have twin filepanes that can be used to copy-to/move-to from one location to another?

You'll find Krusader under "File Managers" in the menu which is a twin filepane file manager.
krusader.jpg
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gnomic

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 10:45    Post subject: going good  

Progress. Handy that SBM at times. I was counting on LOS2 finding a way to boot even from the secondary optical drive as slave, but sounds like SBM eased the way. Legacy is a nice bit of work, even if it has the odd quirky aspect. At least that CD-R was some use after all Cool

I think JB says that ext2 is the preferred, therefore safest, option as a filesystem. This may have to do with the era Legacy derives from.

I rather like xfe myself. Haven't got LOS2 by me at present - I thought there may have been an app called Krusader present which is of that ilk, but can't swear to that. Think it was in the original Legacy at any rate. See http://www.krusader.org/

Opera has always been a little bit too clever for me, but I'm sure with a little practise the Opera way must be attainable.

Perhaps John or some expert Legacy enthusiast can address your other questions.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 11:37    Post subject:  

1. Will go study/use Krusader. Smile

2. "At least that CD-R was some use after all"
Yes indeed, I was surprised and pleased by that.
What is it you know that put you on the trail of this possible solution?
Seems totally weird to me that a CD-R will work where a CD-RW won't.
And indeed that SBM would make any difference. Confused
We live and learn eh?
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 17:03    Post subject:  

1. The Legacy-OS-2 Package Manager won't run.
Get the warning window...
OK that...
Get nothing more.

2. Menu->System->Puppy-Event-Manager doesn't exist. Sad
Is savepuppyd the older version of this?
What does it do?
How do I run it?

3. Installed Firefox 2 from the Puppy-1/Puppy-2 repo, but it doesn't add a menu item. Sad
How best to install, and which version?
How to uninstall the version just installed?

4. There are no partition or filesystem icons on the desktop.
How do I add them to the desktop, or else how best to mount/dis-mount?

5. How best to run a console window?

6. This version of Xfe installed OK, and runs just fine. Very Happy
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1470
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2011, 20:02    Post subject:  

Hello Sylvander,
History Lesson on Legacy OS 2's origin.
Because many of the options users of Puppy 4 and 5 series take for granted weren't around when Puppy 2.14 (Legacy OS 2 base) was released, this is the way to do them.

Quote:
1. The Legacy-OS-2 Package Manager won't run.
Get the warning window...
OK that...
Get nothing more.


The original repository for Puppy 2.14 either contains older or versions of software that can damage many of the updated system files Legacy OS 2 contains.. Extra Applications for Legacy are available here.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68499


Quote:
2. Menu->System->Puppy-Event-Manager doesn't exist.
Is savepuppyd the older version of this?
What does it do?
How do I run it?


Legacy OS 2 doesn't have a Event-Manager sorry!

Quote:
3. Installed Firefox 2 from the Puppy-1/Puppy-2 repo, but it doesn't add a menu item.
How best to install, and which version?
How to uninstall the version just installed?


Currently only Opera series 10 runs in Legacy OS 2. Due to the need to have a Web Browser capable of running flash 10 ,Java 1.6 and other web related codecs etc a number of main system libraries were updated. This caused all Seamonkey and Firefox versions to either segment fault or complain of further missing libraries. Opera with its inbuilt Email client is a very usable Web browser with many hidden goodies was the only browser that still worked. I had to decide if losing a number of applications like XaraLX, Scribus etc was worth having Firefox installed and decided it wasn't sorry!
There were Firefox directories in Legacy OS 2 before you installed Firefox that will effect Opera if you delete them. I recommend you either forget Firefox is there or do a fresh reinstall.

Quote:
4. There are no partition or filesystem icons on the desktop.
How do I add them to the desktop, or else how best to mount/dis-mount?


On the right SideBar you'll see the icon "Drives" clicking it once will bring up a selector which allows you to select the 3 different Drive mounters and the session automount daemon included. Click the automount daemon and then plug in a usb stick and see what happens. The same "Drives" icon is in the bottom main taskbar under the blue up arrow.
Legacy OS 2 doesn't use the later drive mounting system.

Quote:
5. How best to run a console window?


Also in the bottom main taskbar under the blue up arrow is Mxrvt (Terminal) in the menu. You also have access to the cool drop down Terminal "Kuake" click on it and it will appear at the top of the desktop slightly hidden, click on it with your mouse to expand. Find in menu under Accessories > Command Line >

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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2011, 02:19    Post subject:  

@john biles

Thank you for the answers. Smile

I've deleted the pup_save file, and will begin afresh with a new file.

Is there a document or instructions I can read to learn of the individuality of Legacy-OS-2?
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1470
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:12    Post subject:  

Hello Sylvander,
Here is the link to the guide of Applications in Legacy OS. Most of the info is relevant and shows a user what to expect. Legacy OS 2 takes this further with addition applications.
With life and other projects it may be a little while before another improved guide is released.

http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/LegacyOS/

user = puppy
password = linux

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