The debootstrapDebian within Puppy project

[wiak]

Debian created debootstrap script(s) around 2006, but we on this forum came rather (very!) late to the party...

I think it was anikin's post in Dec 2013 that first brought Will Haley's tutorial (Sept 2013 wordpress) on debootstrap to everyone's attention on Puppy forum. Will Haley's tutorial does a great job of explaining everything including mount /proc and so on, chroot, debootstrap and producing final iso using the likes of xorriso:

http://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/h ... an-livecd/
http://willhaley.com/blog/create-a-cust ... vironment/

However, it is Debian themselves that deserve the main thanks for providing simple-to-use debootstrap in the first case:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 097#743097

Fred of DebianDog has recently started a project to script build a Stretch DebianDog on top of a base debootstrap build:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111199

Just a note that you can also use chroot into a new woof-CE build for testing it from its host build system (or any other Linux):

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 512#966512

8Aug2017: By the way, there is also arch-bootstrap, pacstrap, arch-chroot, and similar tools/methods for Arch Linux installs within another Linux such as Puppy. And a Python program for several distribution installs (image-bootstrap). I've also come across archstrap (via google):

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 658#963658

James B of murga Puppy forum has also usefully provided how to run one OS inside another using a chroot:

http://www.lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cg ... koInFatdog

I recognised, however, that the official Debian debootstrap program/script can be used directly on Puppy Linux systems without needing to use it to thereafter build a DebianDog. I therefore decided to open this more general purpose project thread, since Debian's debootstrap build system has nothing to do with DebianDog per se, but is provided by Debian to be used on pretty much any Linux system including Puppy itself.

What does Debian's debootstrap provide? It gives a method of building a base Debian (or Ubuntu) system (such as Stretch) within a folder on your running Puppy Linux or other Linux system (debootstrap is just a set of shell scripts whose only real dependency is wget). You don't need to build a DebianDog out of it. Rather, the provided debootstrap is pure Debian; it's just debootstrap as provided straight from Debian afterall but attached here as a dotpet for Puppy use.

This thread is started with a view to that versatility of possibility since Puppy forum members may find alternative ways to build upon this official Debian-provided debootstrap facility.


How to use the provided debootstrap system:

EDIT 6Aug2017: Got Debian Stretch built and chroot running under Puppy Racy 5.5 (Racy kernel 3.0.66) now. I'll post image soon. I'll also try Puppy 4.3.1 since old kernel, but I have my doubts...! Note that to get a clean build under Racy (or Puppy Linux 4.3.1 for that matter, you must first remove /lib: from the LD_LIBRARY_PATH - no such complicated measure is needed for Slacko64 or tiny core linux). Details are given just before step 3 below.

The following example assumes being on a running Puppy Slacko64 ver 6.3.2 system but the method should work on most any recent Puppy. Note that the Puppy system must be already Internet-connected (wifi connection or ethernet will do - I only had a wifi connection on my Slacko64 system).

1. Install the attached debootstrap dotpet.

2. Make a directory on a Linux filesystem somewhere to hold your Debian build. Example is for Stretch (a couple of GB is probably enough disk space for the build):

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mkdir -p stretch/chroot

I made the above on my /mnt/home ext4 harddrive partition, but you could use a Linux formatted usb if you preferred.

3. Change directory (cd) into dir stretch. On a few systems, at this stage, you may need to deal with a /lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue that the debootstrap program doesn't like. Check details in this link before proceeding:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 323#963323

On Slacko I didn't have that issue, however, and next just run the Debian debootstrap command:

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debootstrap --arch=i386 --variant=minbase stretch chroot http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/

Alternatively, for Ubuntu target (64-bit Xenial Xerus as example) see here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 369#963369

Wait patiently and your 32-bit i386 Debian base system will then be built. Note that from Slacko64 I found you could alternatively build a 64-bit amd64 Debian base system by using --arch=amd64 in command above instead.

4. You now need to bind mount a few key system resources (you can of course put the following into a script - I just entered the commands manually). These are pretty standard commands for using a chroot:

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mount --bind /proc chroot/proc
mount --bind /dev chroot/dev
mount --bind /sys chroot/sys
mount -t devpts devpts chroot/dev/pts
cp /etc/resolv.conf chroot/etc/resolv.conf

or as Peebee suggests (thanks), the following one line alternative is easier for cutting and pasting into a terminal:

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mount --bind /proc chroot/proc && mount --bind /dev chroot/dev && mount --bind /sys chroot/sys && mount -t devpts devpts chroot/dev/pts && cp /etc/resolv.conf chroot/etc/resolv.conf

Example script from jd7654 for starting and stopping you debootstrapDebian created system using above commands:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 780#963780

5. Now chroot into your debian filesystem (on your Puppy):

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chroot chroot

6. In case it was needed, at this stage I also set and exported the LC_ALL environment variable using command:

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export LC_ALL=C

7. FInally, to test debian was working (within my Puppy) I tried command:

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apt-get update

and installed a first new application (the file command):

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apt-get install file

You are now running a Debian system within your Puppy! Yes, you can install X apps (I for example tried apt-get install synaptic, which worked fine though a big download...). How you use this system is up to you. You can simply use debootstrap as above to play with Debian facilities from the comfort of your Puppy or put it inside a wrapper script that chroot's into it for then adding new packages!

Example script from jd7654 for starting and stopping you debootstrapDebian created system:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 780#963780

8. Cleaning up:

As AndresCS mentions below, it is important to clean up the bind mounts once you have finished playing with the chroot Debian system.

8a. You can exit out of the terminal you have chroot into using command:

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exit

and then from any terminal you must umount the previous bind mounts by using commands:

8b.

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umount chroot/proc
umount chroot/dev/pts
umount chroot/dev
umount chroot/sys

or as Peebee suggests, the following one line alternative is easier for cutting and pasting into a terminal:

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umount chroot/proc && umount chroot/dev/pts && umount chroot/dev && umount chroot/sys

However, I should say that you don't 'need' to execute the 8b commands until you are ready and want to (just remember to do it when really finished)! If you enter command chroot chroot again (from inside stretch dir) then the previous bind mounts will still be available (and thus working) until such time as you do these 8b umount commands (after which you'd have to redo step 4 onwards to re-use your debootstrap Debian system.

NOTE: This may or may not be obvious, but you CAN share the same debootstrap built Debian system between other Linuxes. For example, I sometimes boot into Slacko64 or into XenialPup or slitaz or into tiny core linux - I can use the same stretch/chroot debootstrap built Debian on any of them just by doing the same mount --bind commands followed by chroot chroot (or using a simple script to do that...) - you don't need to rebuild the debootstrap Debian system each time, it is always there once built... See linked post below for some extra info about getting X apps to run from the debootstrapDebian when host is not a Pup (i.e. where host user is not 'root'); example in the post is for tiny core linux host where user is usually user tc:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 175#963175

wiak

[AndresC2]

Hello Wiak!

Cool I will try in puppy precise.

by the way..

When you finish type "exit" in terminal and later

you have Unmounting mount binds in chroot.

umount chroot/proc
umount chroot/dev/pts
umount chroot/dev
umount chroot/sys

[fredx181]

Very nice !!

Just a quick note to follow up on what AndresC2 just wrote:

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umount chroot/proc
umount chroot/dev/pts
umount chroot/dev
umount chroot/sys

Doing that after exiting the chroot is really important, should be in first post. (EDIT: Ok, I see you did add now)
Suppose you don't do it and try to remove the chroot directory, the system will crash (because of the mount "binds" to /dev /proc /sys/)

EDIT:

debootstrap --arch=i386 --variant=minbase stretch chroot http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/

Does that work, create 32-bit (i386) from 64 bit host system ?
I tried the other way around and it didn't work for me, btw.

Fred

[wiak]

Does that work, create 32-bit (i386) from 64 bit host system ?

Yes Fred, worked with either --arch=i386 or --arch=amd64 when using Slacko64 host system. For a 32-bit kernel host system I expect you cannot run an underlying 64-bit Debian, though I haven't myself tried that (ah, building 64-bit Debian via debootstrap on 32bit host is a different matter of course - I'll try that sometime, though you say that didn't work for you anyway - I'm almost surprised it didn't work - now I need to install a 32bit Puppy to give it a try! ).

wiak

[wiak]

I tried the other way around and it didn't work for me, btw.

Fred

Well, as I say, on Slacko64 system I was able to build either a 32-bit Debian (--arch=i386) or 64-bit (--arch=amd64).

However, on Slacko32 system, when I tried to build a 64-bit Debian (--arch=amd64) everything went well until the very end when I got the following error messages as the last two reported lines:

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W: Failure trying to run: chroot /initrd/mnt/dev_save/stretch/chroot mount -t proc proc /proc
W: See /initrd/mnt/dev_save/stretch/chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details

and the chroot chroot wouldn't work from Slacko32 with that built system. I did try then booting into Slacko64 and running that same chroot build but still wouldn't work, saying:

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# mount --bind /proc chroot/proc 
# mount --bind /dev chroot/dev  
# mount --bind /sys chroot/sys
# mount -t devpts devpts chroot/dev/pts
# echo -en "`cat /etc/resolv.conf`" > chroot/etc/resolv.conf
# chroot chroot
I have no name!@puppypc830:/# apt-get update
bash: apt-get: command not found

So looks like debootstrap can only build a 32bit Debian system on a 32bit host (However, the error messages almost seem trivial, so maybe way round it...? Meant to check the debootstrap.log contents, but forget, sorry - I'll try again with that some other time...), but can build either a 32bit or a 64bit Debian system on a 64bit host.

EDIT: have tried again and this time noted the debootstrap.log, which is:

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chroot: can't execute 'mount': Exec format error
/initrd/mnt/dev_save/stretch/chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log (END)

However, I remain confused as to the issue, though perhaps the 32bit host system is trying to run 64bit mount command and hence the exec format error (but I'm just guessing)... Actually, on further thought, I believe that is probably what the problem is.

wiak

[wiak]

uploaded dotpet of debootstrap for version 1.0.89 from DebianStretch instead of the older one from Jessie (either seemed to work fine though).

[fredx181]

So looks like debootstrap can only build a 32bit Debian system on a 32bit host, but can build either a 32bit or a 64bit Debian system on a 64bit host.

Yes, did a google search for it and couldn't find any (thought maybe there's some trick to make it work, to create 64-bit on 32-bit host)
Can confirm that using debootsrtap with --arch=i386 works on (probably any?) 64 bit host system.
Tested just now on Stretch Dog 64-bit

EDIT: I think something like this is also required to execute inside the chroot:

echo "debian-live" > /etc/hostname

See more here, e.g for installing kernel etc...
http://willhaley.com/blog/create-a-cust ... vironment/

EDIT2: sorry, above EDIT is in fact off-topic because the purpose here is not to build a live OS out of the chroot.

Fred

[wiak]

I included the debootstrap.log error messages in my post above. Don't know any fix for that build 64 bit Debian on 32 bit host situation though, but at least the other possibilities all work fine...

[wiak]

The unlikelihood of being able to directly build a 64bit target on a 32bit host situation, and the reason why not, is pretty much confiirmed in the following thread:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/20 ... 01044.html

[perdido]

Hi wiak!
This has the possibility of developing into a project that could take puppy in a new direction.

Not just by being able to use this particular script in puppy but possibly applying it to a puppy build process?
(I know, pretty far down the road if possible)

Thanks for presenting this idea!

.

[oui]

a debootstrap-PUPPY (not Debian, not Dog) would be a dream !

[wiak]

Hi wiak!
This has the possibility of developing into a project that could take puppy in a new direction.

Not just by being able to use this particular script in puppy but possibly applying it to a puppy build process?
(I know, pretty far down the road if possible)

Thanks for presenting this idea!

.

Yes, it would be nice to see a more traditional Puppy being built (which in itself didn't use big apps from other distributions at all and so could be built as small as possible). And then the debootstrap Debian could be used (via chroot) with it (even as an sfs only loaded on demand - though for sfs case would need some kind of persistence mechanism since sfs is readonly) with it when wanting to bolt-on/use apps/facilities from Debian - seems to me would give advantage of both but bring back smaller more efficient Pup design. i.e. separate out Puppy from Debian and enjoy benefits of both as and when wanted from the same running system without needing reboot (a kind of virtualisation without adding the weight of virtualisation).

There is no need really to build a 'debian-based' or 'ubuntu-based' Pup. Just build any lean/mean Pup (or any tiny Linux distribution actually) and use an inbuilt chroot-jail debootstrap Debian/Ubuntu facility whenever you need access to huge distribution repositories. you end up getting all the advantages whilst generally avoiding the disadvantages. It's like using virtualisation (virtual machine) but without the resource overhead of running a virtual machine.

Alternatively (or in addition as a choice), as I think you are suggesting Perdido, new styles of Pup could be built via a build system based on an initial debootstrap Debian base. Come to think of it, it would be great to see the Pups and Dogs merging somehow in terms of build-system effort.

wiak

[wiak]

NOTE: This may or may not be obvious, but you CAN share the same debootstrap built Debian system between other Linuxes. For example, I sometimes boot into Slacko64 or into XenialPup or slitaz or into tiny core linux - I can use the same stretch/chroot debootstrap built Debian on any of them just by doing the same mount --bind commands followed by chroot chroot (or using a simple script to do that...) - you don't need to rebuild the debootstrap Debian system each time, it is always there once built...

So this debootstrapDebian chroot running method provides a great way to run a normally tiny pup linux system (even one just a few tens of MB in size, or less) in parallel with a large-as-you-like debootstrapDebian chroot jailed system for extra power when needed...

wiak


EDIT: By the way, when I ran my Slacko created debootstrapDebian under my tiny core linux installation, I couldn't at first get X apps to run from the Debian folder (worked fine running Debian X apps under Slacko itself). Main problem seems to be that tiny core runs by default as user tc and the Debian system needed the .Xauthority file copied over from the /home/tc folder as follows:

In the chroot Debian system:

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mkdir /home/tc/

In the normal tiny core system (from in the stretch dir) enter the command:

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sudo cp /home/tc/.Xauthority chroot/home/tc/

X apps should now find X DISPLAY correctly. However, that .Xauthority changes every time you boot the main system so after any reboot you need to always do that cp command of the newest .Xauthority before trying to run X apps from your debootstrapDebian system. Note well that you don't need to cp any .Xauthority file when running your debootstrapDebian system from a Pup, such as for example Slacko. There is no problem anyway running X apps from the debootstrapDebian system when using a Pup as a host system. Presumably that's because you are running as user root in both the host Slacko system and also the Debian target. I.e. when host is a Pup you don't need to copy over any .Xauthority file!

Some further good information about this can be found here:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:X86/Chroot_Guide

Look for the section: "Troubleshooting: Running X apps inside the chroot"

You can also find instructions in that guide for how to share a directory between both your host and target system (example given is for /tmp but you can mount -o bind any dir you want to share).

[backi]

Hi wiak ....everybody !

Although i do not understand too much about this Topic........sounds total fascinating .......

Could this be a revolutionary discovery??? A real game-changer ????

[wiak]

Hi wiak ....everybody !

Although i do not understand too much about this Topic........sounds total fascinating .......

Could this be a revolutionary discovery??? A real game-changer ????

It's not so complicated actually backi. If you have a recent running Puppy connected to the internet you just need to try out steps 1 to 7 in the first post of this thread. If you did that you'd find you then had a working base Debian Stretch running inside a terminal of your Puppy (so, for example, apt-get install lxtask would work as a test).

wiak

[anikin]

Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 642#960642

[mikeslr]

Hi,

Just wanted to note that several years ago Barry K built into some Puppies the ability to run any already installed distro from within those Puppies. It was called Underdog. Then for a while, he didn't include that capability but a year or so ago, IIRC, it was included in at least one of the Quirkies.

My recollection is that there were a couple of posts on the 'pup n' go' thread, Pup n go is 'going-nuts' exploration of a bare-bones Puppy 4.x, whose ISO was 64 Mbs or less.

I never explored the UnderDog. And until a couple of days ago thought 'chroot' was a cigar. So I don't know what relationship, if any, the two mechanism might have to each other. Just figured anyone with the necessary expertise might benefit by examining paths already trodden if the mechanisms are the same.

I'm a strong believer that it doesn't make much sense to try and re-invent the wheel from scratch; and that the reason history repeats itself is that we don't take the time to learn it and profit from the mistakes and successes others have made.

mikesLr

[wiak]

Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 642#960642

Why?!!!

A debootstrap build log always looks much the same. You see the build log flash before your eyes as it builds the system in the terminal anyway. I'm not claiming to be the first to use debootstrap!!! It's been around for decades!

For example:

http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/nix ... hrootInfo/

http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/instal ... strap.html

This one from 2006!: https://debian-administration.org/artic ... ebootstrap

Been around since Debian-installer released in 2005 and maybe earlier. Looks like debootstrap around before even Puppy invented actually so I feel no-one here needs to worry about claiming 'ownership' of using debootstrap!

All I have done is recognised (and no doubt not the first to do so there either) that it works in a standard Puppy since doesn't depend on dpkg/apt. That's all really - so just started this thread to list the steps to make it work (and include a dotpet of debootstrap itself). That's all! No big deal and not hopefully stepping on anyone else's toes!

EDIT: So basically, I provided alternative answer to question I see asked in that thread anikin links. (As I showed, debootstrap can run from Puppies - doesn't need apt/dpkg - Fred thought that debootstrap required dpkg but I realised from my own reading on debootstrap that it didn't. It's certainly a small subtlety, but may not have been noticed/realised in Puppy forum, but could be very useful alternative Debian-in-Puppy capability I feel):

And, lastly, can I assume that these "recipes" can be run from "DebianDogs/XenialDogs"; i.e. a "Full Blown" debian/Ubuntu or other OS being unnecessary. [But not from the majority of Puppies which lack the apt command].

I might upload a script that sets the whole thing up in Puppy for those who don't like typing command-lines. May or may not, but main thing is to inspire others more knowledgable than me to add to it and maybe build a tiny Puppy that relies on a debootstrap-built-Debian or Ubuntu for providing access to their repositories - just an alternative Debian in Puppy build methodology.

I'll check out Underdog sometime, thanks - never heard of it - wouldn't be surprised if the same since, as I say, chroot and debootstrap have both been around for decades (even if many of us have been unaware of them). EDIT: UnderDog seems to be about having another Linux system as bottom layer of a unionfs such that the files in that are also seen in top layer along with Puppy - seems to be a bit different from a chroot/debootstrap Debian system: http://barryk.org/puppylinux/developmen ... works.html I don't know much about unionfs so can't really comment further about that.

There is certainly no wheel being re-invented here - I'm just drawing attention to fact chroot/debootstrap will work on Puppy as is (and made a simple debootstrap dotpet for that purpose). If no use to you, just ignore the post is easy!

wiak

[wiak]

EDIT 6Aug2017: Got Debian Stretch built and chroot running under Puppy Racy 5.5 (Racy kernel 3.0.66) now. I'll post image soon. I'll also try Puppy 4.3.1 since old kernel, but I have my doubts...! Note well that even the debootstrapDebianStretch build part was done under Racy (I thought it might be too old but it wasn't...). To get a clean debootstrap build with Racy or Puppy Linux 4.3.1 for that matter, you need to first remove /lib from their LD_LIBRARY_PATH; no such issues with the other host distributions I tried (Slacko32, Slacko64, current 32bit tinycore linux).

[anikin]

Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 642#960642

Why?!!! ...

Posting code/logs is standard operating procedure on technical forums. Can you show us how the debootstrap command goes under Puppy?

Thank you.