Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 01 Oct 2014, 19:00
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy Users Group ---The PUG ....
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
Page 4 of 5 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Author Message
Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 09:13    Post_subject:  

Hmm - do you mean a bit of a petshop perhaps, where a new user might waltz in to a Puppy website, select from a menu of RAM and CPU (plus 32bit and 64bit, Intel vs AMD etc) hardware limitations, perhaps choose a WM (JWM, Icewm, openbox, lxde, compriz, E17 whatever) and have a SUGGESTED skeleton tailor-made for their hardware to download, over which they simply add their preferred apps with PPM? And just upgrade the kernel as they upgrade their machine? OOOOooooh I like it!
Who was it who had in his signature "Puppy Linux: Have it your way"?

[EDIT: sorry p310don - you practically stated the above earlier here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=531226#531226. Bedtime for me]

_________________
Toowoomba Linux Community
http://groups.google.com/group/toowoombalinux
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11081
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 10:23    Post_subject:  

A petshop sounds like it would be a great thing for someone who knows the details of the hardware he or she has and is already familiar enough with the application programs available to know which ones he or she might want.

What about the newcomer to Puppy? Or the person who doesn't want to become an expert on his or her computer, or Linux in general? Are we chopped liver? Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
artifus


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 10:47    Post_subject:  

'standard/basic install' option with 'custom install' option?

ie automated or user defined, one click for noobs, a few more for the more experienced/experimental?

a user may experiment more - non destructively - with experience, using pupsave files? not sure i'm making sense anymore, time for bed...

*edit* but before i do - one more thought, and i'm thinking out of the top of my hat here, not really knowing what i'm on about... but would a kind of online remastering service be possible via repositories? boot to basic puppy and use as is or select options to be (auto?) downloaded followed by prompt to remaster?

night night

_________________
ohm's where the art is
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 18:03    Post_subject:  

Flash wrote:
...
What about the newcomer to Puppy? Or the person who doesn't want to become an expert on his or her computer, or Linux in general? Are we chopped liver? Laughing

G'day Flash -
I think I see where you're coming from - you know that chopped liver is seen as a great treat for puppians - a bit like those pigs ears - and pigs ears come into the Puppy Process and habitually get turned into silk purses...
Ok so we have a diverse market that shares one crucial trait - they suspect strongly that they have been sold a Dog, or a steaming pile of barker's nests, from the Big End of town. Too much in-breeding with the OS that was dictated to them when they bought their computer - and while some might want to break away from that crowd completely and dance with wolves, others prefer just the occasional stroll with an unusual little "bitzer" (mongrel) they picked up as a stray - but continually amazes it's new owner with its abilities, loyalty, sense of fun, and downright doggedness in work ethic.
Much has been said elsewhere on the forums about whether we should dress up our "lamb" as XP, Vista or Win7 mutton without showing the wolf it actually can be, when needed, by its Owner. (Yay to the Hungarian Puppy Team in their XP disguises for Puppy.) It's a tired but valid argument that it is what 90% of the global market find familiar, but an ever-diminishing proportion of those believe that it is "safe" or good value for their money. Can we have the flexibility to cater for the spectrum of user's 1) expectations and 2) level of interest in what lies "under the hood"? A self-organizing Puplet that artifus is suggesting is a great idea, I think, but perhaps it should be coupled with better online support, while the Puppy is still in the window and not yet taken for a test run by it's new owner. This could be facilitated by simple you-tube demonstrations about what each (official?) derivative does - in terms of basic hardware environment needed, what it's window environment looks like, how you can access and add preferred applications - and perhaps a highlight on what the (hush) d*v*l*p*r has done or added to achieve a particular goal? We can't let sneekylinux do all the you-tube spruiking, surely - even though he does a fantastic job. Perhaps we should provide an in-house video team, like the Documentation team?
And I'll get in now before my inevitable edit - apologies if this last idea has been already pitched elsewhere on the forum - I'm hoping to add to the discussion rather than keep chasing my own tail... Smile

EDIT: Bugger. Guess my obsession to keep rewriting history happened again - Lobster started this video initiative over a year ago http://puppylinux.mirocommunity.org/category/. Mucho, mucho embarazo Embarassed

_________________
Toowoomba Linux Community
http://groups.google.com/group/toowoombalinux

Edited_time_total
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4296
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 19:42    Post_subject: Someone mentioned "ALL" computers  

Having done this for a very long time (talking about myself), why do we keep using the term "All" computers. And, at the same time, concern ourselves with 100MB CD limitation, while expecting that we can create a system which does everything on all computers. Wow. When I saw Barry, Kirk, and Playdayz add some specifics on PCs for each of these Distros (namely WARY, FATDOG, Puppy), that, to me, began a beginning round of identifying tested platforms which they support. We are too small to support ALL. And we should continue the vocabulary that started for PCs supported so that we can realistically achieve a reasonable objective at a very high level of quality. This doesn't mean restricting, it means classification!

When we post the word "ALL" we seem to be advocating something different from the current Puppy. It put down a statement (intent is there) We must understand that ALL will misguide and get misused by all the wrong methods. We shouldn't be afraid of saying "This is supported on these platforms. And while it may work on other plafforms its designed for these." This then take a level of professionaism to the community. And, allow us to focus. Yes, I have been able to deploy MS OSs on platforms they were never intended for, but, it was clear, to me, before I started what they intended. And, I could publish my finding. But even a behemoth like MS would never use "ALL". We shouldn't either.

Maybe, here, we SHOULD put a stake in the ground of what PCs (homes) the new Puppy is expecting to be boarded.

We are a smart group. Let keep the smartness growing.

Edited: Here's an example (but PLEASE don't use my words)
"I will support all PCs built after 2006 that are equivalent to Intel's P4 or greater, including Intel and AMD 64bit processors up to today. And, I will use all RAM that is reported to me from the system's BIOS. I also will use all peripheral reported after system startup within the Linux OS."

Yes, its still vague; but it does categorize the class machines I feel certain will have all adequate resources to easily run. Its provides enough specifics such that a clearer understanding of what this is designed for is extremely helpful for those planning to deploy.

Hope this helps.

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile

Edited_times_total
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 19:55    Post_subject:  

I would think that a "new" point for Puppy would be appropriate.
Old forms of computers to support would be a good discussion...but no longer a focus.

How old would you support?

And why support old kit?

It's a new world and happening fast....does Puppy need to support 486...586?...or move to the front and support the new processors?

Lot's out there is happening....get with the development and progress I figure.

Let's let the old go and embrace the new....Eric

PS..I didn't read the long posts..sorry All.

_________________
Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.
Chinese Proverb

Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Stripe

Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: In a field. England

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 20:17    Post_subject:  

Hi all

what brought me to puppy and linux was lucid 5, not because of any fancy gizmos or the distro it was compatable with, but it was a lean, light and simple fully functioning os. I just booted from the cd and away I went.

Now I am using a multisession dvd I can use my desktop on any of my pc's (even my old 800mhz amd with 512mb ram) would it be possible to make puppy write to a usb stick in the same manner (so it didnt automaticaly save a session and I could add a mobile swap file as well for pc's that do not have a swap file and limited ram) or perhaps a full install to a usb stick (making it truly mobile)

just some ideas

stripe
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3203
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 20:25    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Just use gparted to make partitions on the USB stick..
Make one Linux Swap, another fat32 for windoze access/sharing
And the third for Puppy...Ext2/3....
Install Puppy to it...

_________________
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/puppyluvr/
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook

Puppy since 2.15CE...
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 20:37    Post_subject:  

Hi Jay,

I would use an old USB stick for swap and put the "install" on another USB drive.

I used this successfully for a long time (2 sticks)..hell, still use an old Kingston 512 usb stick for swap (3 or 4 years?) dunno but a long time.

This started as a customer asked for a slim kit...it still works but she went to Apple...but it does still work...after many years and daily use...Eric

_________________
Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.
Chinese Proverb

Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 706
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jun 2011, 21:17    Post_subject:  

Caneri Said:

Quote:
I would think that a "new" point for Puppy would be appropriate.
Old forms of computers to support would be a good discussion...but no longer a focus.


Old computers have been a focus for Barry, and it would still be good to support them. i486 is VERY old, and probably too old to focus support on. I believe 01micko at one point said he had a 486 running puppy, or linux, in his shed, but reality is, machines of that age are useless for just about anything.

Rather than look at a "new" point, maybe it's good to look the other way for the "old" point.

I have read a few recent posts saying things like "i've installed lupu 5.25 on my old p4 laptop with 256mb ram 60gig hdd" etc. In Puppy's "old" context, this is kinda new, don't you think?

For a Vista or 7 user, a PC that is older than 2 or 3 years is pretty old. Its almost as if its too old once its out of warranty! In that sense, all *our* ideas of old might be much further than others.

New for Puppy is within 5 years, but that is old for the Wintel types!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
akash_rawal

Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 232
Location: ISM Dhanbad, Jharkhand, India

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun 2011, 00:50    Post_subject:  

Hi everyone,

On going through the thread I see that all want to add features to puppy but all are afraid of increasing size too much, well over 100MB.

I have a suggestion. Puppy should be built from source, but in a different way.
We can remove debugging symbols by filtering out '-g' option to gcc while compiling source packages.
This can be done in two ways.
1. Instead of running:
Code:
# ./configure [options] && make && make install

We can run:
Code:
# ./configure [options] && make install-strip


2. We can write a wrapper script for gcc which will filter out '-g' option.

This will reduce size of puppy to almost half, if not, to two-third
Then we will get plenty of room for adding more stuff, and still stay around 100MB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun 2011, 08:24    Post_subject:  

akash_rawal wrote:
1. Instead of running:
Code:
# ./configure [options] && make && make install

We can run:
Code:
# ./configure [options] && make install-strip


2. We can write a wrapper script for gcc which will filter out '-g' option

Have you tested this to see how much difference it actually makes? Cos I know a lot of compilers here already run the 'strip' command on their builds .. (So I do as well... )

I run 'strip --strip-unneeded *' on all the bins and libs

Is this the same thing?

_________________
Akita Linux, VLC-GTK, Pup Search, Pup File Search
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
akash_rawal

Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 232
Location: ISM Dhanbad, Jharkhand, India

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun 2011, 12:09    Post_subject:  

sc0ttman wrote:

Have you tested this to see how much difference it actually makes?

This reduces the size of binaries to almost half. Functionality is not affected at all.
sc0ttman wrote:

I run 'strip --strip-unneeded *' on all the bins and libs

Is this the same thing?

I don't think, because I tried both methods on my boot loader manager and found that "./configure && make created a 201 KB executive. On compiling manually without '-g' option I got 90 KB executive. Using "strip --strip-unneeded" gives me even smaller 74 KB file. Dynamic loading of callback funcs still works in each case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2011, 16:31    Post_subject:  

Concerning higher performance Puppy on newer hardware--it seems that is an interest of several people--me included.

The Slackware binaries are built for i686. The Ubuntu binaries used in Lucid had been built for i386. To me, Slacko seems noticeably quicker. So that is happening.

01micko just mentioned in the Slacko thread possibly building a 2.6.39.1 kernel with PAE--I would like to see the latest kernel possible because I know from Lucid that after one year the kernel will seem long in the tooth.

There is Fatdog 64.

I have been getting 8-10% speed improvement from Firefox and Seamonkey by compiling them myself for my particular cpu. The newer your cpu the more improvement you will get. Some instructions are at http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=67756
.
Seamonkey 2.1 is ***much*** faster than 2.0.14 even without any compiling tricks.

I am also interested in having current versions of the best Linux software available. The Lucid community has been a huge help in this. I look through Additional Software and find things periodically and make Lucid pets. The Lucid PPM contains packages that have been tested and configured for Lucid--I believe this will be important to the success of future Puppies. It's hard for one person to coordinate development *and* fill the PPM. Lucid is OK now, but I could have used a group who would find and make the latest software, make it into Lucid pets, and then test and send me the package. Perhaps at some point 01micko could use this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons

PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2011, 16:38    Post_subject:  

Caneri wrote:
And why support old kit?

It's a new world and happening fast....does Puppy need to support 486...586?...or move to the front and support the new processors?


not all have $, not all like throwing still useful things away

_________________
. . . the machines are clean
and the machines are not corrupted


- lee "scratch" perry
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
Display_posts:   Sort by:   
Page 4 of 5 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Jump to:  

Rules_post_cannot
Rules_reply_cannot
Rules_edit_cannot
Rules_delete_cannot
Rules_vote_cannot
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1114s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0043s) ][ GZIP on ]