Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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bugman

#76 Post by bugman »

RetroTechGuy wrote:People are always talking about DistroWatch, but when looking at usage, one should keep in mind that there are a number of Puppy versions are on the list, competing with each other... So the Puppy family is quite large, even next to "the big boys"...
people are always talking about distrowatch, but one should keep in mind that distrowatch only records page visits, not actual usage of any distro

puppyite

#77 Post by puppyite »

Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.

jonyo

#78 Post by jonyo »

RetroTechGuy wrote:
People are always talking about DistroWatch, but when looking at usage, one should keep in mind that there are a number of Puppy versions are on the list, competing with each other... So the Puppy family is quite large, even next to "the big boys"...

Why? IMO, it's because it's small, fast to boot, low system requirements, and generally works right out of the box... Add to that, that it can be frugally installed (I need not commit my machine to a single full version of Linux, but can play with many OS), and you have a winner...
i would say ~ generally being the key word yes

jonyo

#79 Post by jonyo »

RetroTechGuy wrote:
jonyo wrote:users are the foundation of a distro, watch what you ask for
My feeling is that Puppy is in no real danger from "the big boys", if that's what you meant. From what I've seen, the newer versions of those are pretty hardware intensive. Puppy generally plays in a different market, to a different target audience.

My observation is that running one of "the big boys" is often more a case of OS snobbery, than actual OS utility. That is, often users who do little more than browse the web, send email, and write an occasional document -- they could trivially do all of that with Puppy, and much more.
i mean a distro is at the whim of users period

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RetroTechGuy
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#80 Post by RetroTechGuy »

jonyo wrote:well ..more recently we have this
http://puppylib.open-lib.net/puppy.html
Who owns Puppy?

We all do. Puppy is covered by the LGPL license, an open source license.
The older link (http://puppylinux.com/development/project-statement.htm) also notes:
Legal issues
Concerning the licencing of Puppy. Puppy is GPL, and has been for sometime. Awhile back, I went through all my scripts and made sure that they all had GPL notices in them. There are some closed-source but free apps in Puppy, such as Opera and the Flash-player, which is quite legitimate. The actual name "Puppy Linux" and my logos are copyrighted to me, which is also legitimate -- that is, does not contravene in any way the GPL licences of the applications in Puppy, or the overall "freeness" of the Puppy-project
So there's no change from that aspect...
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
[url=http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html]PuppyLinux.US Search[/url]

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RetroTechGuy
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#81 Post by RetroTechGuy »

[quote="puppyite"]Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
[url=http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html]PuppyLinux.US Search[/url]

jonyo

#82 Post by jonyo »

RetroTechGuy wrote: I still don't understand why you're trying to derail the next version of Puppy. However, I have confidence that Lobster and/or 01micko will complete such a project.
some feel it is a step backwards/sideways as opposed to moving forward, users will decide in the end anyway
Last edited by jonyo on Fri 20 May 2011, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.

bugman

#83 Post by bugman »

RetroTechGuy wrote:My observation is that running one of "the big boys" is often more a case of OS snobbery, than actual OS utility. That is, often users who do little more than browse the web, send email, and write an occasional document -- they could trivially do all of that with Puppy, and much more.
i use debian because i can get a reasonably up-to-date and complete repo on disc, and because i can easily install and use apache, mysql and php for web development, as well as whatever other software i might need or want

i am on dialup so having the repo on discs is important to me

i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .

jonyo

#84 Post by jonyo »

here we have heavyweight comments from a seasoned vet
bugman wrote:i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .
whereas
http://puppylib.open-lib.net/puppy.html
Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):

Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
Puppy will just work, no hassles
Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs
Last edited by jonyo on Sat 21 May 2011, 01:35, edited 1 time in total.

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MinHundHettePerro
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#85 Post by MinHundHettePerro »

Ah, the missionaries are back.
Anyone remember Scunny Rob? I'm starting to get the same vibes ........
fwiw :wink:/ MHHP
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Dual Xeon 3.2 GHz, 1 GB, nvidia quadro nvs 285[/color]
Slackos & 214X, ... and Q6xx
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8-bit
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#86 Post by 8-bit »

All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.
For those that want a democracy of a Puppy edition, how about another Community Edition of Puppy?
That just maybe would satisfy those that want/demand things be included in Puppy.
And to be fair, lets access to every browser and application that the end user can dream up.
Or better yet, just include ALL of them.
I would describe the end result as a piece of s**t.

I think it is tiring reading the rants on this thread that seem to be getting nowhere other than the few that insist that what goes into Puppy and what it should be and become.

And by the way, I am not by any means a scholar and only have a high school education.
Also, I have taken no formal classes on anything computer or computer programming related.

Some of us have problems expressing ourselves on the forum due to education or language barriers.
This does not mean we are dummies or mentally deficient.
So to those in this thread that insist theirs is the only way, Get off your high horse and live in the real world.

jonyo

#87 Post by jonyo »

8-bit wrote:All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.
users decide one way or another

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Q5sys
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#88 Post by Q5sys »

[quote="puppyite"]Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.

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technosaurus
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#89 Post by technosaurus »

Here is an example of how a novice to intermediate user could help out devs:

They _could_ sort through the various suggestion threads and sort out the various suggestions into a new thread and maintain the status in the first thread in concise terms (note - you may want to reply to it a couple of times to reserve the top 3 or so posts)
... also for long posts it is sometimes helpful to cut/paste from geany

Why?
... devs may not be aware that a suggestion has been implemented in puplet X
... anothet user or dev may already have done it, but it is sitting on sdh8 etc...
... its a lot easier to look through a short list and pick a project that interests you _and_ have time for
... sometimes we just get sidetracked and need a little reminder
... because they get to put their own wishlist first :)
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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WhoDo
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#90 Post by WhoDo »

puppyite wrote:... the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.
OMG! How many times does this have to be reincarnated before it finally dies? Maybe "his Majesty the Water Bug" can call on his Buddhist connections to answer that one? :roll:

Since this IS a do-ocracy, Puppyite, please go ahead and create the "governing council" of which you speak! Give us a call when you have it all up an running so we can start sending in our requests for future Puppy versions 6, 7, 8, etc. etc. :arrow: :idea:

BTW, since several former "lives" of a "governing council", also known as the Puppy Linux Foundation, have been driven by "his Majesty the Water Bug", perhaps you could seek tips on pitfalls and shortcuts from him? :P
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
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jonyo

#91 Post by jonyo »

new pup variants
royalty pup
his majesty pup
the water bug pup
monarchy pup
buda pup
whodo pup beast
do-ocracy, pup
pia pup
conflicted vrs pup
governing council pup
etc pup
omg pup
puppy reincarnated

jonyo

#92 Post by jonyo »

WhoDo wrote:
puppyite wrote:... the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.
OMG! How many times does this have to be reincarnated before it finally dies? Maybe "his Majesty the Water Bug" can call on his Buddhist connections to answer that one? :roll:
without elections it won't the old ways are done like dinner
"it's like this" has run its course
it is to be inclusive or not
interesting comments here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68034
The rise and fall of CentOS
Well, that party is over. Last week Dag publicly announced he was resigning from CentOS development work, seemingly over development team communication issues. In the comments there, Dag specifically suggests Scientific Linux as the right distribution to move to now, saying "their process is more open and the people are actually friendly to feedback." If a tight development group has enough resources to keep its users happy, so long as the end result is open-source I'm not going to knock the process that got there. But when your release is at least four months later than it was expected by most people, and you're causing major community contributors to abandon your project in a bad way, I don't have any choice but to start looking into more open projects.

I've seen this movie before, and I didn't like the ending the last time. Thanks to the CentOS development team for helping provide me with an excellent business-oriented Linux distribution I been able to use for free over the last four years. But I'm writing this as my first Scientific Linux install executes, and I have my first SL6 work for a customer also fed up with waiting on CentOS6 to start on when it's finished. CentOS isn't the first group to run an open-source development project without what I'd consider a really open development community, they're just the latest to show how dangerous that is.

bugman

#93 Post by bugman »

jonyo wrote:
Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will just work, no hassles
and it does, in its limited way

anything beyond the iso and some [but not all] of the pups is a hassle

remember that i was responding to a specific inanity from retrotechperson

and that my ideal distro is not my ideal puppy

[2.xx or so is]

bugman

#94 Post by bugman »

MinHundHettePerro wrote:Ah, the missionaries are back.
Anyone remember Scunny Rob? I'm starting to get the same vibes ........
fwiw :wink:/ MHHP
missionaries are a vital part of any distro though, no?

i suppose there's the missionaries you agree with, and those you don't . . .

or is it just a personality crisis?

:wink:

on another note, was thinking it might be time for me to build my most useless distro ever soon, based on your cat /dev/hda1 > /dev/audio

[the failure of the do-ocracy]

puppyite

#95 Post by puppyite »

If it was created without public nominations or elections then IMO it was doomed from the start. A lack of transparency and openness is precisely what's wrong with the current situation.

Locked