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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship
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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:16    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote:
People are always talking about DistroWatch, but when looking at usage, one should keep in mind that there are a number of Puppy versions are on the list, competing with each other... So the Puppy family is quite large, even next to "the big boys"...


people are always talking about distrowatch, but one should keep in mind that distrowatch only records page visits, not actual usage of any distro
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:17    Post subject:  
Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.”

IMO that means the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.
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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2725
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:20    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote:


People are always talking about DistroWatch, but when looking at usage, one should keep in mind that there are a number of Puppy versions are on the list, competing with each other... So the Puppy family is quite large, even next to "the big boys"...

Why? IMO, it's because it's small, fast to boot, low system requirements, and generally works right out of the box... Add to that, that it can be frugally installed (I need not commit my machine to a single full version of Linux, but can play with many OS), and you have a winner...

i would say ~ generally being the key word yes
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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2725
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:22    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote:
jonyo wrote:
users are the foundation of a distro, watch what you ask for


My feeling is that Puppy is in no real danger from "the big boys", if that's what you meant. From what I've seen, the newer versions of those are pretty hardware intensive. Puppy generally plays in a different market, to a different target audience.

My observation is that running one of "the big boys" is often more a case of OS snobbery, than actual OS utility. That is, often users who do little more than browse the web, send email, and write an occasional document -- they could trivially do all of that with Puppy, and much more.

i mean a distro is at the whim of users period
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2849
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:22    Post subject:  
jonyo wrote:
well ..more recently we have this
http://puppylib.open-lib.net/puppy.html
Quote:
Who owns Puppy?

We all do. Puppy is covered by the LGPL license, an open source license.


The older link (http://puppylinux.com/development/project-statement.htm) also notes:

Quote:
Legal issues
Concerning the licencing of Puppy. Puppy is GPL, and has been for sometime. Awhile back, I went through all my scripts and made sure that they all had GPL notices in them. There are some closed-source but free apps in Puppy, such as Opera and the Flash-player, which is quite legitimate. The actual name "Puppy Linux" and my logos are copyrighted to me, which is also legitimate -- that is, does not contravene in any way the GPL licences of the applications in Puppy, or the overall "freeness" of the Puppy-project


So there's no change from that aspect...
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:31    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.”

IMO that means the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.


Also from Barry's page, which you just cited: "It was playdayz who choose Ubuntu packages, and the choice for the next Puppy (5.3) is also up to whoever is going to manage it."

But by all means, if you believe that you can get a committee to run and manage it, and convince everyone to get on board with your democracy idea, feel free to try.

But let me reiterate: I don't believe that you can acquire the staff necessary to complete such a project, under your conditions.

I still don't understand why you're trying to derail the next version of Puppy. However, I have confidence that Lobster and/or 01micko will complete such a project.
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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:38    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote:

I still don't understand why you're trying to derail the next version of Puppy. However, I have confidence that Lobster and/or 01micko will complete such a project.

some feel it is a step backwards/sideways as opposed to moving forward, users will decide in the end anyway
Last edited by jonyo on Fri 20 May 2011, 16:42; edited 1 time in total
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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:40    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote:
My observation is that running one of "the big boys" is often more a case of OS snobbery, than actual OS utility. That is, often users who do little more than browse the web, send email, and write an occasional document -- they could trivially do all of that with Puppy, and much more.


i use debian because i can get a reasonably up-to-date and complete repo on disc, and because i can easily install and use apache, mysql and php for web development, as well as whatever other software i might need or want

i am on dialup so having the repo on discs is important to me

i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .
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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2725
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 16:59    Post subject:  
here we have heavyweight comments from a seasoned vet
bugman wrote:
i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .
whereas
http://puppylib.open-lib.net/puppy.html
Quote:
Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):

Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
Puppy will just work, no hassles
Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs

Last edited by jonyo on Fri 20 May 2011, 21:35; edited 1 time in total
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MinHundHettePerro


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 17:07    Post subject:  
Ah, the missionaries are back.
Anyone remember Scunny Rob? I'm starting to get the same vibes ........
fwiw Wink/ MHHP
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3425
Location: Oregon
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 17:19    Post subject:  
All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.
For those that want a democracy of a Puppy edition, how about another Community Edition of Puppy?
That just maybe would satisfy those that want/demand things be included in Puppy.
And to be fair, lets access to every browser and application that the end user can dream up.
Or better yet, just include ALL of them.
I would describe the end result as a piece of s**t.

I think it is tiring reading the rants on this thread that seem to be getting nowhere other than the few that insist that what goes into Puppy and what it should be and become.

And by the way, I am not by any means a scholar and only have a high school education.
Also, I have taken no formal classes on anything computer or computer programming related.

Some of us have problems expressing ourselves on the forum due to education or language barriers.
This does not mean we are dummies or mentally deficient.
So to those in this thread that insist theirs is the only way, Get off your high horse and live in the real world.
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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 19:14    Post subject:  
8-bit wrote:
All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.

users decide one way or another
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1126
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 21:15    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.”

IMO that means the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.




Um excuse me!
Quote:
Well since you want to advocate this 'democracy system'. How about giving all of us a vote on how you created the FAQ. Since you feel that democratic vote should determine the path of development... I for one vote that you make it pink with purple pokadots. Oh and it should have a bouncing talking dog that reads the contents of page out to anyone visiting.
Now do as you've been asked, and make that happen. Cause if you dont do it you're being selfish and refusing to do whats been suggested (the same things you've said about the 'Royality' as you put it.)


I MADE A SUGGESTION AND YOU DIDNT DO IT!!!!!
Hell you didnt even comment on the suggestion.
Now... should I go create a tirade of posts and rant and rave that you didnt do it... or should I just quietly accept that you didnt like my idea and feel that your current way of doing things is better?
Well... If I were you I'd do the former. Dont you see how annoying this would be, when someone who isnt doing the work tries to tell you how you need to do things?
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4787
Location: Kingwood, TX
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 22:53    Post subject:  
Here is an example of how a novice to intermediate user could help out devs:

They _could_ sort through the various suggestion threads and sort out the various suggestions into a new thread and maintain the status in the first thread in concise terms (note - you may want to reply to it a couple of times to reserve the top 3 or so posts)
... also for long posts it is sometimes helpful to cut/paste from geany

Why?
... devs may not be aware that a suggestion has been implemented in puplet X
... anothet user or dev may already have done it, but it is sitting on sdh8 etc...
... its a lot easier to look through a short list and pick a project that interests you _and_ have time for
... sometimes we just get sidetracked and need a little reminder
... because they get to put their own wishlist first Smile
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4440
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2011, 23:48    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
... the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.

OMG! How many times does this have to be reincarnated before it finally dies? Maybe "his Majesty the Water Bug" can call on his Buddhist connections to answer that one? Rolling Eyes

Since this IS a do-ocracy, Puppyite, please go ahead and create the "governing council" of which you speak! Give us a call when you have it all up an running so we can start sending in our requests for future Puppy versions 6, 7, 8, etc. etc. Arrow Idea

BTW, since several former "lives" of a "governing council", also known as the Puppy Linux Foundation, have been driven by "his Majesty the Water Bug", perhaps you could seek tips on pitfalls and shortcuts from him? Razz
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