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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 12:57    Post subject:  

RetroTechGuy wrote:
Didn't even read this, did you?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=523777#523777

I did and I addressed it here

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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 13:22    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
RetroTechGuy wrote:
Didn't even read this, did you?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=523777#523777

I did and I addressed it here


Which didn't really address this:

Bert wrote:
If frustrated, power-hungry peasant individuals would be boss here, it would kill all creativity, all friendships, all excitement. It would be the shortest way to kill Puppy.


Your response simply reiterated your desire that you would like a democratic boss to control Puppy Linux. All of Bert's comments are equally valid under that context.

By all means contribute suggestions and recommendations as a community member, but stop trying to demand that someone else (i.e. the devs) do it your way. I see no good whatsoever coming from such demands...

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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3368
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 13:38    Post subject:  

Just jumping into this to give my 8 bits.
When Barry made the first puppy and users helped squish bugs, would puppy have continued if the users of it demanded that it look a certain way and have applications and utilities of their choosing.

The way I see it, the DEV are making puppy because it is fun and also a challenge.
They have ideas as to what the end result should be and build puppy accordingly.
So a user comes along and says that the release is great, but could it be made with a different word processor or browser or include a shitpot full of games or more utilities.
That same user has NEVER tried or successfully built a distro and does not want to.
They want the developer to create a custom distro just for them.
And that is where the problems start.
It is the users that want specific things in puppy and keep ragging about it till the developer gets fed up and puppy is no longer fun.
Or maybe I should say that the developer gets fed up with the rants and goes elsewhere where his work is appreciated.
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:17    Post subject:  

8-bit,
Just to be clear, your post does not apply to me.

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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:20    Post subject:  

RetroTechGuy,
Your continued pretense of ignorance and your obfuscation of my words is clearly a troll.

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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:28    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
RetroTechGuy,
Your continued pretense of ignorance and your obfuscation of my words is clearly a troll.


Do you mean that I implied that you said something such as:

"... decisions are made and that generally speaking decisions about Puppy Linux are not made democratically (or if they are they do not include peasants, a.k.a. average users, such as myself). ..."

I have intended no obfuscation of your words. If you meant something other than what I have read, enlighten me...

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:36    Post subject:  

http://www.relationships-explained.com/pages/Symbiosis.html

Perhaps the unhealthy symbiosis relationship is not what you had in mind....but were drawn to by your ego model....?

Personally, I prefer personal feedback and encouragement

Aitch Smile
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:36    Post subject:  

I have made proposals, not demands. If anyone is confused on this point then they failed to grasp my intent.
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puppyite


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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:46    Post subject:  

I do not derive any personal benefit from what I have proposed other than that which I fully expect all users to share in.

The unhealthy element here is the corrosive environment created by some forum members.

Admittedly I have no tact or people skills. My only allies are logic and strategic thinking.

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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:51    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
I have made proposals, not demands. If anyone is confused on this point then they failed to grasp my intent.


I'm afraid that I have read "democratically" as a demand. A democratic vote on a direction for Puppy Linux, would likewise be a "demand".

You could instead establish some polls, of the sort "what would you most like to see in the next distro" -- which gives feedback to our resident experts of what would be nice to have, but keeping in mind that they are requests, not demands.

There may very well be technical reasons for not pursuing a particular request. Or the converse may be true as well. For example, I'm not particularly happy about this request from "rcrsn51", since I regularly use .DEB packages: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=516322#516322

But I do understand the reasoning behind rcrsn51's request -- and I would request that an alternate installation tool be provided, if this is disabled. Or perhaps better yet, just have the installer warn/nag the user that that they should perform a backup, before performing this sometimes risky operation. But ultimately, I will just use whatever the devs give us...

You could also have polls cover: "what is most irritating in Puppy x.xx?", "what do you feel is broken?", "prioritize the list of irritants/broken items" -- which also gives feedback to the devs.

Perhaps the hardest part about the forum is that fixes and patches often already exist, often buried in some of the threads, but finding them is quite difficult.

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RetroTechGuy


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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 14:55    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
The unhealthy element here is the corrosive environment created by some forum members.

Admittedly I have no tact or people skills. My only allies are logic and strategic thinking.


Read your 2 statements, back to back. What you call a "corrosive environment", I assume is aimed at myself (and perhaps a few others). But are you also part of that "corrosive environment"?

I'm afraid that I have become a rather cranky old man. And as such, crankiness begets crankiness... Yes, I suspect that our crankiness is feeding upon one-another... Wink

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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 15:10    Post subject:  

Hi RTG,

Quote:
I thought that the primary cause of death of puppylinux.asia was the host killing off "stored files"...


Yup, that happened alright, but the major issue was money and the need to expand into a full fledged server situation with solid admin and security. That costs BIG bucks and it wasn't there. I truly had no place to run .ca/asia anymore without buying servers and plugging them into a data center with blocks of bandwidth and possibly re-selling....dunno, but time ran out on me and I needed to move on as well, so the new admin was vastly important.

I was following Murga's credo...."if it pays for itself then it runs"

@Thom,
I think I'll do linguine with CANNED clams in white butter/wine sauce...grrr....All My Best..Eric

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 15:25    Post subject:  

Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties. Until then, with no additional incentives, users must wait for the things they want/need until a dev wants/needs it too. ... what good is a barter economy if you don't use it.
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 15:31    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties.


Thus the typical user is in a parasitic relationship with the devs... Wink

Quote:
Until then, with no additional incentives, users must wait for the things they want/need until a dev wants/needs it too. ... what good is a barter economy if you don't use it.


I have suggested a "BeerPal" app, that permits users to bribe the devs with a bounty appropriately... Wink Laughing

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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 15:43    Post subject:  

RetroTechGuy,
When I read your posts this is what I hear: Bla Bla Bla

Regarding polls: When I need your advice I’ll ask for it.

Regarding corrosive environment: Don’t flatter yourself, I wasn’t speaking about you specifically. And don’t include me in with the corrosives.

A smiley buys you nothing.

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