Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship

[WhoDo]

If you cannot develop, be grateful for those who do, for nothing...
Appreciate the product, or learn how to make it how you want it...
Im not being rude, or mean...just realistic...

here's some reality show me the goods and it better be good

and that's just to start

And who made YOU the arbiter of what's "good" or what isn't? See you give some people a "seat at the table" and right away they get piggish about how much importance attaches to their particular snout in the trough! Do us all a favour, jonyo, and take that self-righteous whine and Puppyite cheese somewhere else! Go on, I double-dog dare ya both!

[jonyo]

you've become a babbling weirdo

and an embarrassment to puppy

i don't care who might be associated with your "us"

a joke

[01micko]

I've made a conscious effort to avoid this stupid thread.

What makes you all think that Lucid/Ubuntu devel has actually stopped? Isn't that the argument here?

It's moronic threads like these that are an embarrassment to Puppy... they have been going on for years and are nothing more than a joke.

The dev ranks here are thin enough. New blood is what we need.. is this the way to attract such?

Don't anyone forget, devs are users too.

Royal plebians?

[jonyo]

It's moronic threads like these that are an embarrassment to Puppy... they have been going on for years and are nothing more than a joke.

gee what a shocker

so goes a forum so goes a distro

[jonyo]

If you cannot develop, be grateful for those who do, for nothing...
Appreciate the product, or learn how to make it how you want it...
Im not being rude, or mean...just realistic...

here's some reality show me the goods and it better be good

and that's just to start

And who made YOU the arbiter of what's "good" or what isn't? See you give some people a "seat at the table" and right away they get piggish about how much importance attaches to their particular snout in the trough! Do us all a favour, jonyo, and take that self-righteous whine and Puppyite cheese somewhere else! Go on, I double-dog dare ya both!

as a user i expect nothing less, could care less what you folks end up doing

[puppyite]

I have updated the OP.

[Aitch]

puppyite

We've discussed Councils before....several times

It's never been a successful appeal to users or devs, and Barry hasn't commented, AFAIK

Have you tried local politics - or even introducing similar on puppylinuxfaq.org?

Aitch

[puppyite]

Just had to get the last word in didn't you? Typical, even stereotypical.

[jonyo]

heh heh there aitch is a mover and shaker here

[bugman]

while i think that cooperation between devs and users is a desirable goal, i am no longer sure that it a desirable goal for puppy

and after the sort of rancor i have seen in this thread, i would ask: does the end justify the means? or do the means preclude the end?

in other words, if you can't participate in this debate with respect, how will you respectfully participate in the development of puppy?

[Aitch]

.....aitch is a mover and shaker here

Aitch

[puppyite]

I've made a conscious effort to avoid this stupid thread.

Royal persons such as yourself need not post, they may instead issue proclamations and let their vassals distribute them.

[Q5sys]

Update 5/22/11

I have requested that this thread be closed. Unfortunately this has become a referendum on my popularity and not the issues raised. I believe the premise of the OP is still valid and deserves consideration.

Wait I thought you wanted public discourse and everyone to have a seat at the table. Why then do you want a thread closed where there is discussion? Is it perhaps because we are discussing things that you do not want us to? Again this shows that you have a desire to 'control' the path of things. If you truly want a democratic system where everyone has a say in the future of puppy, then you should have no problems with where the populis decides the future of this thread should go. If you cant allow a simple thread to get off the direction that YOU laid out for it, how can you expect others to allow you to have a say in the direction of their distro?

[01micko]

Royal persons such as yourself need not post, they may instead issue proclamations and let their vassals distribute them

You are just showing that you are a pathetic troll. Comments like that only alienate you. Good luck with your quest. you'll need it.

[puppyite]

You are just showing that you are a pathetic troll.

I see you rolling in the mud too.

[puppyite]

Q5sys,
See this.

[jonyo]

All you can do is request, that does not necessarily mean it will or should be done and you now have an argument against which at this point i support

Update 5/22/11

I have requested that this thread be closed. Unfortunately this has become a referendum on my popularity and not the issues raised. I believe the premise of the OP is still valid and deserves consideration.

Wait I thought you wanted public discourse and everyone to have a seat at the table. Why then do you want a thread closed where there is discussion? Is it perhaps because we are discussing things that you do not want us to? Again this shows that you have a desire to 'control' the path of things. If you truly want a democratic system where everyone has a say in the future of puppy, then you should have no problems with where the populis decides the future of this thread should go. If you cant allow a simple thread to get off the direction that YOU laid out for it, how can you expect others to allow you to have a say in the direction of their distro?

[puppyite]

I stoke the fire and rekindle the flames:

How desperate is a situation in which neither side will recognize that they cannot exist without each other and agree to work in harmony?

In recognition of the fact that no distro can succeed without users and developers I ask you: What compromise can be made that would give average users a voice commensurate with their importance?

[jonyo]

it's gonna take a bit for the shock to settle

might turn into a pup shock and awe

amazing what was going on here

[puppyluvr]

Hello,

I stoke the fire and rekindle the flames:

Really?? Hadnt noticed...

A couple of questions:

Who are the users..Who are the developers..
Ive written stuff that made it into the Official Puppy..
Am I "Royalty"..

I keep seeing this "line in the sand" being drawn...
And I keep saying there is no line...
Many things I`ve done were because someone asked..
So who made it happen? The guy who put it together??
Or the guy who thought of it in the first place..??
The user is the developer..
The ability to write a simple script, or the ability to build a whole release..??
Where is the line then??
I just hate the "labels"...Royalty, Beggar, User, Loser.
The infighting doesnt bug me so much, causes true colors to come out...
But to see the Dev`s depicted as some kind of elitist cult, against all logic showing the opposite, after 4 years of watching each, in turn, bend over backward...Well...
Just proves that if you bend over backward to help, you are still bending over...And what happens when you bend over.....
This.................................
Sorry...Love Puppy...Love the people who contribute, test, build, and DO anything to further its development....
So someone wants a bug tracker, and it hasnt happened yet... Why???
I guess its the main dev`s job to make it happen...
Hell, they aint doin anything anyhow, eh.???
Anyone ever consider that they probably already donate WAY TOO MUCH of their own time, for nothing but the gratification of doing... Against the happiness of their spouses at times, but I would guess they bitch less than some of the people who should be on the gratification side of the deal...
IDK...You want it...help make it happen...no, you dont have to code...
Ask nicely, offer suggestions, run tests....

Oh, wait, that is how it already works...
What was the problem again????

BTW folks....BK didnt bend over backwards...He did "what I want"...
And no one ever treated him like this....
So... A Benevolent Dictator... A final word....
ATM, I believe that is 01Micko....
Hope he doesnt let this crap bug him....
..WhoDo took too much of this in his turn...
..Playdayz went out of his way...
..No one will want to do the job, if it is like this...
Then what???
Any project needs a leader...
To listen to suggestions....and decide....
And hope others can Respect their decisions...
It is just not as easy as all that....