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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship
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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1565
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2011, 21:37    Post subject:  
Y'All can speak on this topic until the world ends (May 21 or Saturday or maybe Sunday or..)

If anyone of you tall and expensive gents spent a small amount on puppylinux.ca/asia it would still be active.

You see, things cost money no matter what you think.

Eric
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1485
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2011, 21:54    Post subject:  
Caneri wrote:

If anyone of you tall and expensive gents spent a small amount on puppylinux.ca/asia it would still be active.

You see, things cost money no matter what you think.



But you're quoting Real World Stuff...and as was posted here earlier...a Linux Distribution is NOT Real World.

Gosh...it's like the lady down the street who's loose.....use at your own risk, and don't take it to the office or your parents.

Trust you are well and the kilowatts are abundant.

Thom
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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1565
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2011, 22:12    Post subject:  
Thom,
I'm still pissed about you having access to fresh fish,clams and the like. and soft shell crab!!!....you prick...Wink

Wonderful to hear from you, but the solar is still TRYING to be completed. We have floods of rain here so construction is off (again)...not to mention a new Canadian gov may pull the carpet from under my feet....good grief Charlie Brown

Real world isn't most people's daily life.
Eric

PS..I have the connect permit for solar..so that's something (so I can connect to the grid).
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2298
Location: USA
PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2011, 23:47    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
RetroTechGuy wrote:

See the links in this post again: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=524189#524189

That's not an infrastructure that alllows participation in a decision making process. You would have them be, as you put it "beggars".


And why should they be anything else, unless they're actually paying for the developers' time?...

I guess that I don't see what the problem is...
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2298
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 00:16    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
RetroTechGuy,
I am president of my homeowners association. It is an elected position for which I receive no pay or compensation of any kind. The vice president and treasurer are also unpaid, uncompensated volunteers.

All decisions are decided by a simple majority vote of the homeowners. Everyone has an equal opportunity to vote and all votes carry equal weight.

This summer some of the homeowners including the treasurer and myself will do some maintenance on our street. By your reckoning only those of us who are able to volunteer should have a vote.


So you should start a Puppy Linux Puplet project that operates the same way. No one will tell you that you cannot create a puplet, that you cannot allow all "members" of the project to vote, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Other projects are "owned" by other developers, and they are likewise free to run their piece of the pie any way they want. I suspect that most of them are run as meritocracies -- a do-ocracy where those whose work is superior, make more decisions.

And we, as users, are free to use or not use their product, as we see fit. I still see nothing wrong with this, or the way that the various projects are run and completed.

I should also note that I am not a fan of democracy, and the evils which arise from it. We should further note that the Founders also understand the dangers of a democracy, and instead created a Constitutional Republic.
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2298
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 00:25    Post subject:  
Q5sys wrote:

If users were providing some benefit to the devs in some way... then it would be a symboitic relationship and it would be in the devs best interest to heed the wishes of those who support them.


Hence my suggestion for a "BeerPal" program... Wink

How else can I sent a beer or twelve to our gracious benefactors?...

But it could just as easily be a "bounty" on a new app, program, or patch... If enough people add to the bounty, the problem would be resolved.

Quote:
But without users benefiting devs... what you are asking the devs to do... is surrender to a few thousand back seat drivers as it were.


I don't see the devs agreeing to even a couple back-seat-drivers. I do see them quitting, if a popular vote determines what they will work on. Why would they subject themselves to such a form of slavery?...
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 00:29    Post subject:  
Caneri wrote:
Y'All can speak on this topic until the world ends (May 21 or Saturday or maybe Sunday or..)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdeCxJmcAo

Quote:
If anyone of you tall and expensive gents spent a small amount on puppylinux.ca/asia it would still be active.

You see, things cost money no matter what you think.


I thought that the primary cause of death of puppylinux.asia was the host killing off "stored files"...

I still wish that we could have moved them someplace more tolerant of bulk file storage...
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1485
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 02:07    Post subject:  
Caneri wrote:
Thom,
I'm still pissed about you having access to fresh fish,clams and the like. and soft shell crab!!!....you prick...Wink

Eat your freakin' heart out!

Quote:

Wonderful to hear from you, but the solar is still TRYING to be completed. We have floods of rain here so construction is off (again)...not to mention a new Canadian gov may pull the carpet from under my feet....


Likewise...sorry about the gubmint....one must realize that in a balanced system, someone or something has to be the roadblock to progress.

Thom
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 9385
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 03:55    Post subject:  
RetroTechGuy wrote
quote
I don't see the devs agreeing to even a couple back-seat-drivers. I do see them quitting, if a popular vote determines what they will work on. Why would they subject themselves to such a form of slavery?...
/quote

Very true words. That is as it should be too. To pay them would kill Puppy spirit instantly. Puppy should be fun for the volunteer Dev and not a slave job for low salary forced upon them by demanding users.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 05:11    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
I am president of my homeowners association. It is an elected position for which I receive no pay or compensation of any kind. The vice president and treasurer are also unpaid, uncompensated volunteers.

Like I said in the old thread, Deja Vu all over again! I presume this is what you're looking for?

Puppy Linux Foundation

Every couple of years this quest for "organisation" surfaces in the Puppy community. It never makes it past the gabfest stage, despite a willingness on the part of many talented individuals to play a role. Puppy simply doesn't work that way. If you "organise" FUN it ceases to exist. That is why Puppy remains a proud do-ocracy! Rolling Eyes

And to add to the links previously supplied, what about this one?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66820
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1277
Location: UK
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 08:41    Post subject:  
WhoDo wrote:
Every couple of years this quest for "organisation" surfaces in the Puppy community. It never makes it past the gabfest stage, despite a willingness on the part of many talented individuals to play a role.


It never makes it past the gabfest stage because the Puppy developers are not willing. I reluctantly accept that situation.

WhoDo wrote:
If you "organise" FUN it ceases to exist.


That's a sweeping generalisation. Holiday Camps, like Butlins in the UK, organised FUN. Some people love 'em. Some people, including me, hate 'em.

Puppy Developers are in the class of people who hate organised fun - that does not mean that fun cannot be organised - just that Puppy developers cannot be organised!
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1485
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 09:53    Post subject:  
ICPUG wrote:
- just that Puppy developers cannot be organised!


Like herding cats...if you can;t do that, you can't get them to go to the meeting.

Thom

Who has only developing pictures experience.
Last edited by tlchost on Thu 19 May 2011, 10:44; edited 1 time in total
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 10:40    Post subject:  
Here is a prime example of intransigence promulgated by do-ocracy.
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2298
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 11:51    Post subject:  
ICPUG wrote:

WhoDo wrote:
If you "organise" FUN it ceases to exist.


That's a sweeping generalisation. Holiday Camps, like Butlins in the UK, organised FUN. Some people love 'em. Some people, including me, hate 'em.

Puppy Developers are in the class of people who hate organised fun - that does not mean that fun cannot be organised - just that Puppy developers cannot be organised!


But, even if they're fun for the those who play and attend, they're typically not fun for the workers and the plan coordinators.

Applied to this Puppy discussion, such "planned FUN" would be fun for the users, but would not be fun for the developers... And if the devs aren't having fun, then they'll probably go fishing or sit in the back yard with a beer, instead...
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2011, 12:36    Post subject:  
puppyite wrote:
Here is a prime example of intransigence promulgated by do-ocracy.


Didn't even read this, did you?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=523777#523777

Let me echo and applaud Bert's observation.

The system is not broken, so don't try to impose your fixes on it. Start your own distro, and run it as a democracy, and leave those who want to run their projects the "old way" alone...
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