spup-121.02 pre-alpha3 based on 13.37

[gcmartin]

Seamonkey 2.1
This is the release of Seamonkey 2.1. ... significant...

Yeah. I don't know how many saw this post. Open this and move slider to 15 minute mark and watch for 1 minute as they compare to SeaMonkey.. It amazing how significant this browser's performance really is.

In Puppy, we have a propensity of reducing size and then complaining about performance. Let's not, this time. If I can double my performance on a single 20MB hit, I'll take the performance benefit! This is what is important to many users.

I'm not saying its the right solution for everyone, as everyone has their preference, but for an all inclusive browser with everything that SM does, I am just happy that the Mozilla community continues to bring us this complete subsystem. SM NEVER WAS A BROWSER. It is a subsystem!

Let's consider getting adjusted with SM 2.1 before the community begins its "slash and burn" mission by chopping pieces out of the product. It's unfortunate that this occurs on a stellar product, but ... oh well..

This is the wrong place to post this. We should have a SM only thread that gets updated for 32 and 64 bit PUPs as well as all the differing varieties of Repo contributions. Wow!.

Hope this helps

[01micko]

Hi All,

I don't know if it's beyond the scope of a stock puppy to offer such things as saving and operating outside the savefile. Certainly in the immediate future I'm just trying to get this thing stable! (Xorg anyone? ). However this is all good feedback and I'm sure will be implemented at some stage.

For example, I don't particularly like the implementation if Fido. What it does if you select Fido at first shutdown is change all the ownerships of files and folders in /root to fido, which kind of makes going back to root on a temporary basis impossible, once you go back to root you stay there.

What could be a solution to that is create Fido's (or whoever's) working directory outside the save file, leaving root as root inside the save. Of course fido is a choice and anyone who likes running as root can continue to do so. Possibly this could be extended for 'root' to create a folder outside the save for all data and settings. Of course this would need to be a choice too as many people like everything inside the save file.

But like I said, before adding any new features I want to fix up the existing 'features' .

In the next version I am going to revamp the Xorg process once again, but also implement a way to catch the errors, which I should have done before, just didn't think of how. Previously I had asked people to post xorg logs and such. I did snag one (thx playdayz) which did help me to debug xorg. I am going to introduce a simple command that will zip up the log in the root directory.

One thing, I haven't heard of any sound bugs. Great! Especially since we are up to alsa-1.24 and using 2 new kernels.

Wifi woes.. yes I have experienced the intermittent wifi re-connections after reboot. I have recompiled wireless-tools but that is not the issue, the problem still exists. It may be something in SNS, I'll take a look. I also have to get a frisbee package together but it will not be in the iso by default. The reason is that frisbee connects to the net too slow for me after boot. You can always remaster with frisbee in if you want.

I am going to wait for a new woof before I rebuild. I may stick with 2 kernels, latest stable is a 2.6.39.1 and may compile that, just for fun (PAE on in that one maybe) . Actually I'm pretty surprised by the lack of kernel bug reports, although I suspect some gear (Brown Mouse and the browser woes) may not like some things in new kernels. And maybe with the new kernel I might fatten that one up a bit.. new SM.. other suggestions I'll take note.. but don't go overboard!

I'm also putting together more WM packages... did you see DaveS' tut on openbox/fbpanel? Cool stuff! I have it working and Icewm. (KDE is a goer too but it is FAT).

Hopefully the next version will be a true alpha, maybe the last alpha! Depends mainly on xorg.

Thanks for all the reports and discussion.

Cheers!

[DaveS]

I'm also putting together more WM packages... did you see DaveS' tut on openbox/fbpanel? Cool stuff! I have it working and Icewm.

Small thing here Mick that I left out of the tutorial.... Spup is short of a couple of little scripts needed for Openbox to build a normal root menu, you know.. the right click pop-up menu. I did not include them because fbpanel does that job anyway, and it does allow the construction of a completely custom right-click desktop menu that wont get overwritten by fixmenus. But this is no good if the user wants to use Openbox WITHOUT fbpanel or maybe Openbox with Tint2 (my preferred option).
Anyway, the missing parts are in the tiny .pet below. May need including in the new Spup?

[playdayz]

Seamonkey 2.1 Optimized

In the previous version of the post with the "supposedly optimized" version of Seamonkey 2.1 (on page 35), the Seamonkey 2.1 was not actually any faster than the generic download from mozilla.org. I do not know why. But this one is.

Seamonkey 2.1 compiled with -march=amdfam10--that is, for AMD Phenoms, scores 4009

The i686 version of Seamonkey 2.1--which is the one available now--scores 3751.

The generic version of Seamonkey 2.1 from mozilla.org scores in the low 3600's. The generic version of Firefox 4.0.1 also scores in the low 3600's.)

Seamonkey 2.1 -> http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/Seamo ... 1-i686.pet

You can compile Seamonkey for your cpu with the instructions for compiling Firefox (http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=67756). You can get the seamonkey source from http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla ... ce.tar.bz2 You need to change the configure command to

Code: Select all

# ./configure --enable-application=suite --prefix=/usr

.

[playdayz]

I don't know if it's beyond the scope of a stock puppy to offer such things as saving and operating outside the savefile.

Yes. True.

[Béèm]

I'm not saying its the right solution for everyone, as everyone has their preference, but for an all inclusive browser with everything that SM does, I am just happy that the Mozilla community continues to bring us this complete subsystem. SM NEVER WAS A BROWSER. It is a subsystem!

I agree with you that the Mozilla community should continue developing.
They say

SeaMonkey

SeaMonkey® is the all-in-one application formerly known as the "Mozilla Application Suite", containing a web browser, a mail and newsgroups client, an HTML editor, web development tools, and an IRC chat client.

[Béèm]

Pardon my ignorance of how the file system and PupSave actually works.. by why is there any restriction on the size? Most file systems allow for expanding number of records in a file. Why is the file a fixed length? What is unique about the way our save file is structured that it can not automatically expand?

Most devices that we save to.. Hard disk, stick, CD, DVD, all can handle expanding file sizes. Certainly it is necessary to determine maximum space for a save, that is, is there enough space to make the save. That should be easy to determine.

This is nice reading material.In the forum there have been lots of discussions about the save file.
If you increase it, a warning is issued not to go beyond 1.8GB.
But there are people who have reported that they worked with one of 4GB.

It has never been absolutely clear why there is a limit.

[James C]

Pardon my ignorance of how the file system and PupSave actually works.. by why is there any restriction on the size? Most file systems allow for expanding number of records in a file. Why is the file a fixed length? What is unique about the way our save file is structured that it can not automatically expand?

Most devices that we save to.. Hard disk, stick, CD, DVD, all can handle expanding file sizes. Certainly it is necessary to determine maximum space for a save, that is, is there enough space to make the save. That should be easy to determine.

This is nice reading material.In the forum there have been lots of discussions about the save file.
If you increase it, a warning is issued not to go beyond 1.8GB.
But there are people who have reported that they worked with one of 4GB.

It has never been absolutely clear why there is a limit.

For what it's worth, I'm using a couple of 8 GB save files now..... haven't noticed any problems.( Lucid 525 and Spup)

[Béèm]

Pardon my ignorance of how the file system and PupSave actually works.. by why is there any restriction on the size? Most file systems allow for expanding number of records in a file. Why is the file a fixed length? What is unique about the way our save file is structured that it can not automatically expand?

Most devices that we save to.. Hard disk, stick, CD, DVD, all can handle expanding file sizes. Certainly it is necessary to determine maximum space for a save, that is, is there enough space to make the save. That should be easy to determine.

This is nice reading material.In the forum there have been lots of discussions about the save file.
If you increase it, a warning is issued not to go beyond 1.8GB.
But there are people who have reported that they worked with one of 4GB.

It has never been absolutely clear why there is a limit.

For what it's worth, I'm using a couple of 8 GB save files now..... haven't noticed any problems.( Lucid 525 and Spup)

You beat the record.

[playdayz]

If you increase it, a warning is issued not to go beyond 1.8GB.
But there are people who have reported that they worked with one of 4GB.

It has never been absolutely clear why there is a limit.

Could that be from back when the largest file Windows 98 could handle was 2 GB?

[mikeslr]

Hi 01micko,

Apologies if it appears that we sort of hi-jacked the Slacko thread. Speaking for myself, I know I can get carried away. You are, of course, correct to remind us that obtaining a functional and stable operating system must be the first priority and accomplishing that must be the primary focus of this thread.
My introduction to Linux and Puppy was to burn a CD and install it via Lin' And Win'. Puppy did what it did because that was the way it did it, just as once we interfaced with a computer via a keyboard because that was the way someone designed it: but then someone invented a mouse. Had Puppy been originally developed using external folders for apps and data we might now be somewhere discussing the possible benefits of including such within the OS/SaveFile.
So by way of mitigation, I would point out that currently this is the only thread of a cutting edge system in active development --compare Saluki, which still remains just a discussion-- AND which has drawn the attention of Puppy's most experienced Pupplet developers, such as yourself, playdayz. ttuuxxx, Iguleder, and pemasu. Consequently, you'll have to blame yourself for the distraction.('') If you attract the participation of the eminent, you should not be surprised by the appearance of "True Believers" waving placards however irrelevant.(':lol:')

mikesLr

[cowboy]

...Had Puppy been originally developed using external folders for apps and data we might now be somewhere discussing the possible benefits of including such within the OS/SaveFile....

"plus ça change" and so, so, true.

[DaveS]

01Micko/Playdayz... there might be something interesting going on here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 194#534194

[Aitch]

Further to gcmartin's post earlier.....Open this.....I carried on watching the google i/o video....ChromeOS/Chromebooks look interesting, but scary....

Could this mark the death of computing as we know it....there's certainly a big push to put everything on the web.....but isn't it just a computing rental service??

Aitch

[mikeslr]

Hi 01micko -- sorry to divert the thread again.(':twisted:')

@ Aitch: "Scary?" How un-American of you. (':shock:') Have you forgotten our credo:
"Government can do nothing right. Big business can do nothing wrong."

The next thing we can expect is that you'll suggest that George Orwell's vision was distorted: Big Brother shouldn't have been the government, but rather an unbridled corporation having exclusive control over everyone's sensitive and vital information, including the nominal members of the government.(':(')

Information is power. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. (Paraphrase, Lord Acton).

Essau surrendered his birthright for a plate of beans. Freedom will die not in agony on the battlefield, but with an unconscious shrug against a petty annoyance. Who will watch the watchers?

Edit: Furhter in this thread, Aitch kindly points out that I had mistyped "wathers" when I intended "watchers" in the above sentence. So I've changed it. If you google the name "Wathers" you see Google is already watching them.(':roll:')

mikesLr

[Aitch]

....How un-American of you. ( )......

ha ha

....probably because I'm English!

There's a lot about American/big business politics at the moment that I find scary.....and I thought the reason you kept guns over there, was to prevent the 'big brother' stuff from happening....thus maintaining freedom for those who don't know what it is....yet!

How wrong can you be?

See you in the cloud[s]....?

[I take it that "Who will watch the wathers? " is a minor typo?]

Aitch

[Jim1911]

Hi 01micko,

I am trying to install NVIDIA-Linux-x86-270.41.19 and it tells me that it is incompatible with nouveau and it must be uninstalled before the driver can be installed. Using xorgwizard, I choose vesa, and reboot, however nouveau gets loaded again. How can I remove it and use the vesa driver so that the NVIDIA driver may be installed?

Thanks,
Jim

[Billtoo]

Hi 01micko,

I am trying to install NVIDIA-Linux-x86-270.41.19 and it tells me that it is incompatible with nouveau and it must be uninstalled before the driver can be installed. Using xorgwizard, I choose vesa, and reboot, however nouveau gets loaded again. How can I remove it and use the vesa driver so that the NVIDIA driver may be installed?

Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim,
You need to load up the bootmanager in the setup wizard and you can blacklist the nouveau module there.

[Jim1911]

Hi Billtoo,

Great suggestion, however, it did not work.

Blacklisted nouveau, exited to prompt, ran xorgwizard, selected vesa, and rebooted. Nouveau is still the driver, somehow, it is being automatically restored. Checked Bootmanager, and it is still blacklisted.

Incidently, I'm using your procedure that you posted on the PolarPup thread to install the nvidia driver. Worked great with Snow Puppy and PolarPup.

Thanks,
Jim

[Billtoo]

Hi Billtoo,

Great suggestion, however, it did not work.

Blacklisted nouveau, exited to prompt, ran xorgwizard, selected vesa, and rebooted. Nouveau is still the driver, somehow, it is being automatically restored. Checked Bootmanager, and it is still blacklisted.

Thanks,
Jim

I fought with that nouveau module a few days ago and I'm pretty sure that's what I did to get rid of it, could be mistaken though.
Bill