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Puppy LAN 101
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 04:15    Post subject:  Puppy LAN 101
Subject description: Discussion on how to setup a home LAN with Puppy 525
 

How does one establish a Local Area Network with Puppy?

Lets assume there are two or more desktop computers all running Puppy 525, a couple of printers and an ADSL modem router.

How should the computers be connected?

a. RJ45 cable via an ethernet card,
b. Using a wirelss modem,
c. a modem router, or
d. another method.

The requirement is to be able to access and run files on either computer from either computer.

Does one of the computers need to be setup as a server? or should it be configured as a peer to peer network?

Does Puppy 525 come with all the necessary software and tools? If yes, what are they? if not, what is required?

How are the printers configured so each computer can use both printers?

I'm sure there are many people interested in this topic.

I have done a lot of reading on the internet and through the PuppyLinux Forums but it many cases it's more confusing than helpful. Hopeully this thread will provide all the answers to the questions above and more. It would also be nice to compare a wireless network to a wired network in respect to simplicity, cost and functionality.

Once all the questions have been answered, I will put together a tutorial unless of course a good simple one already exists.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12324
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 09:59    Post subject:  

It doesn't matter how you connect the computers - wired or wireless. As long as each machine is getting an IP address, you have a network. Supposedly, your current modem or router is already handling this through a procedure called DHCP. Your ISP assigns your home an "external" IP address. Then the router gives each machine an "internal" address of the form 192.168.xxx.yyy.

You can confirm this by running the command "ifconfig" on each machine to see its IP address. You can then check your connection to other machines with "ping 192.168.xxx.yyy".

In order for a computer to share its files across the network with other computers, it must be running some kind of "server" process. Note that the machine does not need to be a dedicated server - it can still function as a regular computer. Puppy comes with software to run an FTP or HTTP server, but most people prefer the convenience of a Samba server. Read here.

Printer sharing can be done two ways. A Samba server can be configured to share printers. But CUPS also has built-in sharing capability. Read here.

There are some advantages to setting up a separate computer as a dedicated server. It acts as a central location where users can store/share their files. It can be always-on and can run on older hardware.

Regarding wired versus wireless: that's just a matter of how much money you want to spend and whether your spouse will let you staple cat-5 cable to the baseboards of your house. Wink

As an example, here is how my home network works.

1. The DSL modem supplied by my ISP performs DHCP, so any computer connected to it gets an internal IP address.

2. However, the modem only has one Ethernet port, so it connects into a little 5-port switch box. The other computers and networkable printers in the room also connect to the switch. Each one gets a different IP address from the modem.

3. I then purchased a separate wifi router. It is also capable of performing DHCP. So, in theory, I could have made it the primary router on my network. However, I didn't want to mess with my current setup, so I disabled DHCP in its settings and turned it into a basic wifi access point.

4. When a wireless computer connects to the access point, it gets an IP address from the DSL modem. It then behaves exactly as if it were hard-wired into the network.

5. The same is true for a wireless printer. You first give it the name and password of your access point. It then picks up an IP address and becomes visible to computers on the network.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 17:15    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 thank you for your very descriptive and clear explanation.

I will now delve into the depths of networking and hopefully succeed.

rcrsn51 wrote:


You can confirm this by running the command "ifconfig" on each machine to see its IP address. You can then check your connection to other machines with "ping 192.168.xxx.yyy".


So far so good. It has given my other computer an IP address of 192.168.0.4 which was expected.

Quote:
In order for a computer to share its files across the network with other computers, it must be running some kind of "server" process. Note that the machine does not need to be a dedicated server - it can still function as a regular computer. Puppy comes with software to run an FTP or HTTP server, but most people prefer the convenience of a Samba server. Read here.


I will give samba a go and see if I can get it to work.

Quote:
Printer sharing can be done two ways. A Samba server can be configured to share printers. But CUPS also has built-in sharing capability. Read here.

I already use cups so I will try that first. Both of my printers are connected by usb ports from my primary/server computer.

Quote:
Regarding wired versus wireless: that's just a matter of how much money you want to spend and whether your spouse will let you staple cat-5 cable to the baseboards of your house. Wink


Fortunately I have a keeper so I can make my own decisions. I've had her for 38 years and couldn't be bothered training another, funny she says the same thing about me. I will make the second computer a wireless connection then as it already connects to the internet that way via my adsl/modem/router which has 4 rj45 ports.

Quote:
As an example, here is how my home network works.

1. The DSL modem supplied by my ISP performs DHCP, so any computer connected to it gets an internal IP address.

2. However, the modem only has one Ethernet port, so it connects into a little 5-port switch box. The other computers and networkable printers in the room also connect to the switch. Each one gets a different IP address from the modem.

3. I then purchased a separate wifi router. It is also capable of performing DHCP. So, in theory, I could have made it the primary router on my network. However, I didn't want to mess with my current setup, so I disabled DHCP in its settings and turned it into a basic wifi access point.

4. When a wireless computer connects to the access point, it gets an IP address from the DSL modem. It then behaves exactly as if it were hard-wired into the network.


I guess I won't need the additional router as it is part of my modem.

Quote:
5. The same is true for a wireless printer. You first give it the name and password of your access point. It then picks up an IP address and becomes visible to computers on the network.


I don't have a wireless printer but I'm assuming I can access it from my second computer. I'm not too clear on this bit.

Thanks

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12324
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 18:17    Post subject:  

Since you already have your printers connected to your main computer, networked printing should be easy. Just modify the CUPS configuration to declare the printers sharable. Then CUPS on your wireless computer should automatically detect them.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 18:31    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Since you already have your printers connected to your main computer, networked printing should be easy. Just modify the CUPS configuration to declare the printers sharable. Then CUPS on your wireless computer should automatically detect them.


Excellent. Thanks.

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 05:46    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Since you already have your printers connected to your main computer, networked printing should be easy. Just modify the CUPS configuration to declare the printers sharable. Then CUPS on your wireless computer should automatically detect them.


It didn't work Crying or Very sad

Do I have to setup samba-TNG before this will work? I would think not seeing that cups is suppose to be able to do it alone.

Do I have to setup the appropriate printer driver on the remote machine? Once again I don't understand why it would be needed as it would use the driver on the main computer.

Code:
Occasionally, a Puppy client may not be able to auto-detect a CUPS shared printer. In that case try installing it manually with a URI like:
Code:
ipp://192.168.0.4:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series


I tried the above from the command line and got the file not found error.

I also tried it from the web browser address line and got the message "ipp is not a registered protocol"

Then I tried it from within CUPS add a printer area under ipp

Where to from here?

Thanks

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 08:27    Post subject: Meeting Smokey01 request for requirements  

Smokey01 wrote:
Lets assume there are two or more desktop computers all running Puppy 525, a couple of printers and an ADSL modem router.

How should the computers be connected?

a. RJ45 cable via an ethernet card,
b. Using a wirelss modem,
c. a modem router, or
d. another method.

The requirement is to be able to access and run files on either computer from either computer.

Does one of the computers need to be setup as a server? or should it be configured as a peer to peer network?

Does Puppy 525 come with all the necessary software and tools? If yes, what are they? if not, what is required?

How are the printers configured so each computer can use both printers?

I'm sure there are many people interested in this topic.
Everything @Rcrsn51 has said is correct:

But, here is another view that together may help you.

Your a,b,c,and d, above, are very good questions to start. This is your hardware requirements necessary for your PCs to be a LAN.
But, to be "totally" accurate to help you, it would be nice to know the following 3 pieces of information.
  • Does your ADSL modem-router have WiFi (also called wireless)?
  • How many Ethernet LAN connection spots (called ports) are on the back of the ADSL modem-router you received?
  • How many computers you intend to connect?
If you provide that, we can be more specific in insuring we give information so that you cannot go wrong.

Without that information, everything I share would be as accurate.as possible in the absence of that information

But for the sake of accuracy I want to start by saying "All modern day PCs, laptops, netbooks, smartphones, modem-routers come with a LAN capability built-in. This is either or both an ethernet wired capability or/and a wifi capability." Now what I have just described are devices which you have in your possession.

OK, next, we need to "connect" these together so that "YOUR" devices can see each other. When this is done we call this a LAN. The EASIEST WAY to connect together in a LAN, is to let the provider's equipment do this for you.

In the case of PCs you would use an ethernet cable (RJ45) going from the PC to the ADSL device. Power on ADSL, then boot Puppy. At the Puppy desktop, open a terminal and type "ip address" (without the quotes, of course). You will see an address starting with the numbers 192.168... For example my laptop's ip information looks like this
Code:
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP qlen 1000
    link/ether 00:e0:b8:d8:1e:51 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 192.168.0.202/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth0
3: wlan0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc mq state DOWN qlen 1000
    link/ether 00:c0:a8:f2:7d:9e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
When you do the same thing to a 2nd PC, the same thing will happen, as well.

Now lets assume that
  • the device from your provider is 192.168.0.1
  • PC #1 has its ethernet address as 192.168.0.201 and PC #2 has its ethernet address as 192.168.0.202
These 3 units can see each other and I can tell by issuing a "ping" to check connectivity. A ping is done by opening a terminal and typing any one of the following
Code:
ping 192.168.0.1   <== I can see my router
ping 192.168.0.201   <== I can see my PC1
ping 192.168.0.202   <== I can see my PC2
Now my Puppies see my LAN and see each other.

Now that they can "see" each other, the next step is to let them do something with each other. Here, you indicate that you want each PC to share files with each other. All Microsoft PCs have been doing this since 1995. In the Linux world, this REQUIRES a program called SAMBA. There are 2 that are floating around in the PPMs for the present day Puppies. They are SAMBA (the Linux community refers to as full SAMBA) and SAMBA-TNG (the Linux community refers to this as a derivative of SAMBA). Both of these are stable and capable for what you ask, although full SAMBA "may" be a bit more secure. You will NOT need to add anything to any modern day Microsoft or MAC in order to do this. Just for Puppy. When this feature is installed on PUPs, the Windows PCs and Linus PCs can share ("serve") things over the LAN with each other.

Lastly, there are 3 types of printer sharing that occurs in today's LAN communities.
  1. via a PC server where it is connect to the PC one of the following connections: serial/parallel/USB/Firewire/blue-tooth
  2. via the Printers wired capability
  3. via the Printers WiFi capability
If you use a printer which has a wired/WiFi capability, the printer has a built in setup to do this.
If you use a PC as the server for the printer, then you can use SAMBA (full) or you can use CUPS (which incidentally has a version that was built by SAMBA people specifically for CUPS to use for sharing. This direct printer sharing does NOT require ANY SAMBA to be installed if you will NOT be share files from the PC.). So, in essence CUPS has 2 paths to share printers from the local PC for LAN use.

This meets "your requirement" that you asked for.

Now, if you answer the above questions, we can be a little more specific with our answers for anyone wanting to use your "LAN 101" thread.

Lastly, there is more Puppy SAMBA information on this thread. Its a bit dated because the present day PPMs have versions more suited to their PUPs. So I RECOMMEND you use the PPM's SAMBA versions provided along with that document. As well, there is a TON of information on using SAMBA found on the internet for over the past 19 years that is accurate For simple file sharing. And there are many available to help..

Hope this helps.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12324
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 08:38    Post subject:  

smokey01 wrote:
It didn't work

We need much more specific information that that.

1. You don't need the Samba-TNG server package anywhere to make this work.

2. What Puppy are you running on your main machine? On the wireless machine?

3. What specific steps did you perform on the main machine to declare your printers sharable?

4. On the client machine, you don't need to install a printer. Just go to the Printers section and see if the networked printers are listed.

5.
Quote:
I tried the above from the command line and got the file not found error.
That's the wrong way to install a printer.
Quote:
I also tried it from the web browser address line and got the message "ipp is not a registered protocol"
That's also wrong.
Quote:
Then I tried it from within CUPS add a printer area under ipp
That's the right way. What specifically did you do?
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:07    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
smokey01 wrote:
It didn't work

We need much more specific information that that.

1. You don't need the Samba-TNG server package anywhere to make this work.
Quote:
I didn't think so

2. What Puppy are you running on your main machine? On the wireless machine?
Quote:
Puppy 5.2.5 on both machines


3. What specific steps did you perform on the main machine to declare your printers sharable?
Quote:
I modified the Samsung printer in CUPS but didn't change any settings except adding a tick to share the printer. I also ticked the box in the server area to "Share printers connected to this system"


4. On the client machine, you don't need to install a printer. Just go to the Printers section and see if the networked printers are listed.
Quote:
I did that but none were found except the two default, CUPS-PDF and pdf-writer


5.
Quote:
I tried the above from the command line and got the file not found error.
That's the wrong way to install a printer.
Quote:
Agreed

Quote:
I also tried it from the web browser address line and got the message "ipp is not a registered protocol"
That's also wrong.
Quote:
Agreed

Quote:
Then I tried it from within CUPS in the add a printer area under ipp
That's the right way. What specifically did you do?


Under add a printer I selected Internet Printing Protocol then pressed continue. Then I typed "ipp://192.168.0.4:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series" into the field.

Anyway I'm happy to report that I have the server working and the client is connected to it. I can transfer files back and forward and watch videos and listen to music from the client computer. I had a bit of trouble sorting out the firewall but Firewall Genie helped me out. I didn't want to turn the firewall off completely.

I uncommented the printers line in smb.conf but am still having problem with the printing.

Thanks for your help so far.

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:32    Post subject: Re: Meeting Smokey01 request for requirements  

gcmartin wrote:
Everything @Rcrsn51 has said is correct:

I agree
But, here is another view that together may help you.

  • Does your ADSL modem-router have WiFi (also called wireless)?
    Yes

  • How many Ethernet LAN connection spots (called ports) are on the back of the ADSL modem-router you received?
    Four
  • How many computers you intend to connect?

1 or 2

If you provide that, we can be more specific in insuring we give information so that you cannot go wrong.

In the case of PCs you would use an ethernet cable (RJ45) going from the PC to the ADSL device. Power on ADSL, then boot Puppy. At the Puppy desktop, open a terminal and type "ip address" (without the quotes, of course). You will see an address starting with the numbers 192.168... For example my laptop's ip information looks like this
Code:
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP qlen 1000
    link/ether 00:e0:b8:d8:1e:51 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 192.168.0.202/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth0
3: wlan0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc mq state DOWN qlen 1000
    link/ether 00:c0:a8:f2:7d:9e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
When you do the same thing to a 2nd PC, the same thing will happen, as well.

Yes, ifconfig provides similar information.

Now lets assume that
  • the device from your provider is 192.168.0.1
  • PC #1 has its ethernet address as 192.168.0.201 and PC #2 has its ethernet address as 192.168.0.202
These 3 units can see each other and I can tell by issuing a "ping" to check connectivity. A ping is done by opening a terminal and typing any one of the following
Code:
ping 192.168.0.1   <== I can see my router
ping 192.168.0.201   <== I can see my PC1
ping 192.168.0.202   <== I can see my PC2
Now my Puppies see my LAN and see each other.

Yes I had checked by pinging and all is good.

Now that they can "see" each other, the next step is to let them do something with each other. Here, you indicate that you want each PC to share files with each other. All Microsoft PCs have been doing this since 1995. In the Linux world, this REQUIRES a program called SAMBA. There are 2 that are floating around in the PPMs for the present day Puppies. They are SAMBA (the Linux community refers to as full SAMBA) and SAMBA-TNG (the Linux community refers to this as a derivative of SAMBA). Both of these are stable and capable for what you ask, although full SAMBA "may" be a bit more secure. You will NOT need to add anything to any modern day Microsoft or MAC in order to do this. Just for Puppy. When this feature is installed on PUPs, the Windows PCs and Linus PCs can share ("serve") things over the LAN with each other.

Yes, already using rcrsn51 samba-TNG package.

Lastly, there are 3 types of printer sharing that occurs in today's LAN communities.
  1. via a PC server where it is connect to the PC one of the following connections: serial/parallel/USB/Firewire/blue-tooth
  2. via the Printers wired capability
  3. via the Printers WiFi capability
If you use a printer which has a wired/WiFi capability, the printer has a built in setup to do this.
If you use a PC as the server for the printer, then you can use SAMBA (full) or you can use CUPS (which incidentally has a version that was built by SAMBA people specifically for CUPS to use for sharing. This direct printer sharing does NOT require ANY SAMBA to be installed if you will NOT be share files from the PC.). So, in essence CUPS has 2 paths to share printers from the local PC for LAN use.

So far I have tried the Samba and CUPS method but no luck. The client can't seem to see the printers although they are connected to my server PC.

This meets "your requirement" that you asked for.

Yes

Now, if you answer the above questions, we can be a little more specific with our answers for anyone wanting to use your "LAN 101" thread.

Most of the information is in the threads that rcrsn51 has provided but I would like to document my learning experience in a stand alone PDF document.

Hope this helps

It does thanks thanks

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12324
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:34    Post subject:  

Regarding your firewall: Did you try running with the firewall completely turned OFF on both machines? If you going to use a firewall, you need to open Port 631 for CUPS.

It sounds like you performed the right steps to declare your printer sharable. But there were other reports of Lupu clients having trouble detecting shared printers using CUPS 1.4. Apparently CUPS 1.3 in Quirky/War did not have the problem.

It also sounds like you installed the printer using the ipp protocol correctly. I'm assuming that 192.168.0.4 is the IP address of the SERVER?

Since you have the Samba server running, your next step is to install the printer on the CLIENT using the smb protocol. Note that these printers are not auto-detected.

If you have already tried that, please provide details.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:46    Post subject:  

Regarding your firewall: Did you try running with the firewall completely turned OFF on both machines?
Yes, that's what gave me the clue. I thought I had turned on the correct ports but apparently not. A bit of fiddling got it working.

If you going to use a firewall, you need to open Port 631 for CUPS.
Both printers work perfectly on the server computer so I assume port 631 is already open. It might not be the case for the client as it has not had printers installed previously.

It sounds like you performed the right steps to declare your printer sharable. But there were other reports of Lupu clients having trouble detecting shared printers using CUPS 1.4.

I am using CUPS 1.4

Apparently CUPS 1.3 in Quirky/War did not have the problem.

It also sounds like you installed the printer using the ipp protocol correctly. I'm assuming that 192.168.0.4 is the IP address of the SERVER?

No, 192.168.0.3 is the server and 192.168.0.4 is the client.

Since you have the Samba server running, your next step is to install the printer on the CLIENT using the smb protocol. Note that these printers are not auto-detected.

Bugger

If you have already tried that, please provide details.

I have tried so many things I'm starting to repeat myself. I might have to start writing my attempts down Embarassed

I will continue tomorrow night.

Thanks

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12324
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:59    Post subject:  

Quote:
It also sounds like you installed the printer using the ipp protocol correctly. I'm assuming that 192.168.0.4 is the IP address of the SERVER?

No, 192.168.0.3 is the server and 192.168.0.4 is the client.

Then you did it wrong. When you install the printer on the CLIENT, you need to specify its location on the SERVER. So the correct URI should be
Code:
ipp://192.168.0.3:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series


After you installed the printer on the CLIENT using the ipp protocol, how did you test it?

Or did you reinstall the printer on the SERVER using ipp? That is the wrong thing to do.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 17:11    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Quote:
It also sounds like you installed the printer using the ipp protocol correctly. I'm assuming that 192.168.0.4 is the IP address of the SERVER?

No, 192.168.0.3 is the server and 192.168.0.4 is the client.

Then you did it wrong. When you install the printer on the CLIENT, you need to specify its location on the SERVER. So the correct URI should be
Code:
ipp://192.168.0.3:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series


After you installed the printer on the CLIENT using the ipp protocol, how did you test it?

Or did you reinstall the printer on the SERVER using ipp? That is the wrong thing to do.


I'm a little confused now, logic has failed me.

I thought that the CLIENT would need to look for the printer on the SERVER which is at 192.168.0.4. So what you are saying is when I install the printer on the CLIENT I need to do it via ipp at ipp://192.168.0.3:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series

I was not able to test the printer as it could not be found on the network.

To clarify another point, Do I need to setup the printer for the CLIENT on the client machine.

I never tried setting up a network printer on the SERVER.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 18:13    Post subject:  

We need to get our terminology right. The SERVER is the machine that has the printers plugged into it. Your CLIENT machine is supposedly your laptop.

In the previous post, you have stated that 192.168.0.3 is the server AND that 192.168.0.4 is the server. You need to get this straight.

Quote:
Do I need to setup the printer for the CLIENT on the client machine

Ummm. We're talking about the laptop? You should have been using the URI
Code:
ipp://192.168.0.?:631/printers/Samsung_ML-1660_Series
on the laptop.
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