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Puppy 5.3
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tubeguy


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1326
Location: Park Ridge IL USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr 2011, 19:00    Post subject:  

Quick question- if the 5-series used Ubuntu shouldn't a Slax base be the start of a 6-series? Sorry of this has been asked and answered already.
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Apr 2011, 23:03    Post subject:  

Broad brush strokes for now
v5.3 or v6 or Spot or not

So for now Puppy 5.3 'Spot' Smile

Spup is the Slackware Woof build and so those interested in Spot should
concentrate on supporting Spup (Slackware)

One of our long term Pup supporters writes by email:

Quote:
I would love to support Puppy 5.3 so just let me know how I can help and I'll do the best that I can.

Cheers, Ian.


There are a lot of factors at work
for example we are awaiting the 'leet' release of Slackware 13.37 which is in RC status . . .

To do list for now:
test current spup just for a taste
create and host bug tracker eg. itrack-bug-tracker
create logo
develop wiki page experience, register with raffy for access if planning to contribute to wiki
use IRC chat room as Mick makes use of this and it may be a way we keep developers in touch

Cool

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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 603
Location: Pennsylvania U.S.

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr 2011, 21:40    Post subject: Puppy Cloud ?  

The below email was written some time ago (as you can see the version of Puppy I mention.)

I haven't had a response from John Murga on the below letter as of date but, after seeing what is happening here with talks of the new Puppy going into development, I thought this is where the 'meeting of minds' will be centered and it would be a good place to mention it.

---------------- My Email To John Murga -----------------------------
Hi John...

We don’t know each other but I have been thinking on this matter for some time now‘ and was about to post the below in the Puppy tread where the new 521 is being developed and I thought, maybe I better run this idea past you to get you and your team’s thoughts on the matter before posting it as, without doubt if a ‘Cloud Puppy’ comes about, there would be no better place to have it then your website integrated with the Puppy Forum.

I have no idea if in fact you and the team are even interested in such a project? I would appreciate it if you would review the below and give it some serious consideration as I really believe the ‘Cloud’ will be the future for most (if not all) computing.

If you have not taken a look at the ‘jolicloud’ program that is now running and expanding like wildfire, please do so, it gives a good example of where cloud computing is headed and how nice it performs. I believe Puppy would even be far superior because it can offer so many derivatives and options to the end-user.

Whatever your thoughts John, I would appreciate a reply one way or the other and it was a pleasure to make your acquaintance.

Regards;

>>>---Indian------>


----------------------------- What I was About To Post ------------------------

**** The Perfect Future Puppy ****

I am placing this subject here 'one time only’ because during the past development of Puppy 520, and now into 521, this tread probably draws the largest number of Puppy programmers and those interested in the development of Puppy overall.

How about a Puppy Linux that would reach into (and beyond) the known future of where computing is destine to end up?

“Cloud Computing” far-fetched you think? well think again! Cloud computing is growing, and growing very fast. There are a few already taking this route and it is working out very well for them. Some of the largest companies in the computing world are preparing for ‘The Cloud.’ Is it the future of computing? “Without a question of doubt... It Is!” (since I wrote this paragraph, major companies are exploding into the future of Cloud Computing, see for yourself on Linux Today or other Linux major publications.)

The program installed directly on the computer no matter what the Operating System, is coming to an end, and I for one believe very rapidly.

The way Puppy Linux is being offered to users world-wide right now is kind of hit & miss... Very few who own a computer know about Puppy and what a tremendous program it really is in its many variations. And no, it doesn’t receive the national and international attention like some of the more popular distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Microsoft Windows etc., etc., etc.)

So what is my point here you ask?

A Puppy Linux browser could be developed that would handle Puppy for Cloud Computing and not only that, but it could offer ‘Every Version’ of Puppy to anyone who owns a computer worldwide. Yes, I say... ‘Every Version’ as I do believe that would be possible.

Every developer of a specific version of Puppy would still be able to do exactly what he or she is currently doing as far as development, have testers still do what they do and really nothing would change except for-

‘ME’ the user. I would be able to start my Puppy Browser... connect (somewhere in the world) to a main Puppy program asking me ‘What Version Of Puppy Linux Would You Like To Use?’ with a list of all the various Puppy Distro’s to select from. I could try them all if I like, then stick with the one that best suits my particular computing needs. The Puppy forum should be able to remain just about as it is.

As far as I can tell it would take no more than-

1: A server (eventually, possibly even more than one linked, like the big boys do it) somewhere in the world.

2: Someone or better yet, a team, to develop and maintain a Puppy ‘Cloud Browser.’ (probably could be done with any current browser, maybe even more than one browser?)

3: The Foresight needed to make it happen from every serious Puppy Developer in the world.

Would it be a big undertaking... probably so... but just stop and think about the end-result for a minute and the potential it could offer schools and others less fortunate kids and adults who may not have the latest and greatest in computer equipment nor the expertise to install and maintain updates to programs or even be able to get their hands on a late version of Puppy at all. Of course, Puppy should remain as it is in the derivatives forum allowing those without Internet access to be able to download and run on their computer the Puppy version they want, again, nothing in this section would change.

If anyone is interested in pursuing this, perhaps we can get someone with the authority to start a separate forum topic on this and see where it will go, who would want to get involved, and exactly what the possibilities are?

Wouldn’t it be nice to finally have ALL the Puppy’s in one place for everyone to try out and use?

'Good Luck to everyone involved on development of the new Slack 5.3 I hope it's a winner!'

>>>---Indian------>
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stu90


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1401
Location: England. Dell Inspiron 1501. Dpup

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr 2011, 23:12    Post subject:  

Maybe i am missing something here but to me all this cloud computing seems to be in the basic form is a web browser bookmark - or if you are hip and trendy a .desktop icon that opens a certain web page and you call it an 'app'
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Luluc


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 01:10    Post subject: Re: Puppy 5.3
Subject description: 5.3 features
 

I have some random thoughts to add:

Lobster wrote:
Here is what is known of POTENTIAL 5.3 'Spot' features:
* Built from latest Woof using a Slackware base

What does that mean? Will I have to migrate all my Ubuntu packages to Slackware?

Lobster wrote:
Goal of under 100MB ISO

OK, but... why? Just for the sake of it? Small is beautiful, but sometimes I think that Puppy is bit too stingy with size/space. Is all that crunching always really necessary?

Lobster wrote:
Transmission and Chat programs return

Chat? Why? What's wrong with the Pidgin SFS already available? I think that Puppy should come with as little additional software as possible, and improve on the number of optional PET/SFS packages.

Lobster wrote:
Most secure Puppy ever.

Secure in what sense? You know, for such a portable OS, I sorely miss support to file system encryption, including LUKS. I mean, support to /etc/fstab and /etc/crypttab, so that I can carry all this portable stuff around without fear of misplacing something or being robbed. I tested LUKS, it doesn't work. I can mount the LUKS partition manually with cryptmount (which is not included with the distro), but then the LUKS partitions are not closed and unmounted properly at shutdown.

Also, how about some auditing on every PET and SFS? No distro is really secure without core and package auditing.

Lobster wrote:
The firewall on by default...

... to appease the scare mongers. Might as well overthrow the entire run-as-root concept, too.

Lobster wrote:
Panic button, disconnect from internet

Please make that optional and easy to remove. I don't want that rubbish cluttering up my system tray.

Lobster wrote:
Boot menu

Please make that optional and easy to remove. I want to boot FAST. FAST. VERY FAST. As fast as Tiny Core Linux, maybe even faster. Please do not plant foolish speed bumps on the way of my boot.

Iguleder wrote:
Regarding 5.3 (or 6.0), the features I'm thinking about are:
- XZ compression for SFSs (good for size), with support for LZO (GREAT for "lite" or "retro" versions, very fast) and gzip (backwards compatibility, balance between size and speed, good for "normal" versions).

01micko wrote:
There have been good reports about the 2.6.38 series and it does have the advantage of xz compression which has the potential for bringing down Puppy's size.. but at what cost? Methinks backward compatibility with a bunch of existing sfs. We'll see on that one, also xz will be a learning curve for me.

Please do not use XZ compression. It is a very bad idea.

Run a few tests by yourselves. See how long it takes to compress or decompress with XZ. Then test GZIP. XZ is a lot, lot, lot slower, and the compression rate is not really that much better than GZIP. It's a bad trade-off. Like I said before, Puppy sometimes is too stingy with size and space.

Slackware uses XZ compression for package distribution because it makes sense in that specific case. They have thousands of people downloading packages from their repository all the time. In that situation, with THOUSANDS of people downloading, the small difference between XZ and GZ does save them some bandwidth, which is expensive, and you usually download and install a package only once, so the impact of waiting around longer to decompress an XZ package isn't so bad. But, for things that need to be decompressed often, XZ is a terrible idea. It will just slow things down for a ridiculous reduction in space.

Iguleder wrote:
- xdg-user-dirs with Desktop disabled (!!!), time to get modern Smile

Desktop disabled? Modern? What does that mean? Are you one of those people who mistake a computer for a picture frame and think that icons should be banned from the desktop area? Such that nobody else in the world should be given a chance to place their icons there? As if we went around with the computer on our hands telling people, "Look, look, look at how pretty my desktop area is"? Are you also one of those people who insist that Grub absolutely must have a graphical background, as if anyone ever spent any more than one or two seconds looking at that screen -- in the odd cases where it is not configured to boot straight into a working operating system? Please, explain this "modern" disabled desktop concept to me.

Iguleder wrote:
- LXTask, LXRandR

Whatever is wrong with the existing JWM or Openbox taskbar? Why add all the weight of the LXDE base, just so you can change the color of the taskbar? Really? The same person who wants to use XZ because it compresses 1.2999999% more?

Iguleder wrote:
- xbindkeys and xbindkeys-config, with bindings for xlockmore, LXTask and rxvt-unicode

xbindkeys is not that cool. It is slow and awkward, I often press the shortcut (say, Win+t for terminal) and nothing happens, then I have to press it for a little bit longer, and sometimes I end up with three or four terminal windows popping up. Keyboard shortcuts work a lot better on the respective window manager. Openbox and IceWM are pretty easy to configure.

One more thing, if you guys are going to insist on rxvt-unicode, at least configure it with a more readable, perhaps larger font. Another color scheme might be good, too. The way it is it looks awful, I can barely read the commands and output. And why does it have to pop up in such a small window? Since Puppy uses Rox already, why not use Roxterm? It is very customizable, looks good, I mean GOOD...

Iguleder wrote:
- volumeicon and some mixer instead of retrovol,

I probably agree. I like retrovol, except that it won't close by itself automatically when I click elsewhere.

sc0ttman wrote:
- I want only 1 menu entry to 'Set Wallpaper' or 'Edit Taskbar' (etc), NOT specific to a particular WM - load up some Puppy scripts that detect the WM and run the relevant wallpaper changer, or menu config, etc

I really don't mind the odd extraneous window manager item in the menus. I'd much rather the menus overall were a lot, a lot, a lot better organized. And no sub-menus, please!
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 01:20    Post subject:  

Long term, that is beyond the period of commercial exploitation,
the Cloud will be provide by 'public service institutions', perhaps provided by DIY yourself citizen networks much like the FOSS community.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=378034&search_id=621525568#378034

Gmail is a cloud service and it allows Google to sift and advertise on the basis of my data. Gmail is still more convenient than Sylpheed or the other Puppy alternatives (for me)

Twitter which I mainly use as a news feed, can be accessed from phone (when I get one) and desktop, netbook and pad (when I get one)

My Blog is in the Cloud, rather than on my personal server space. I prefer someone else to manage and pay for the server. That may change if the ads (not yet present) get out of hand.

At the moment I find no advantage to running an Office suite on line.

However this is usage of an operating system and is not integral to the design of 5.3 or Puppy 6

Talking of 5.3 (ah yes I knew this thread was about something) . . .
I am using Spup 'Elephant Rock' in preparation.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=474739#474739
Excellent base. Congratulations to Barry for Woof and Mick for implementing. Smile
It does not have 'straight to desktop' like Lucid and Wary
and no quickpet like Lucid but as an Alpha base for 5.3
it is fast, stable, usable and these facilities can be the first
'spots'

Puppy Linux
Better from start to Finish

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 01:32    Post subject:  

Quote:
Will I have to migrate all my Ubuntu packages to Slackware

It means that the binaries that 5.3 uses
if based on spup will come from slackware
if based on Upup from Ubuntu
and if based on dpup from Debian
5.3 will be built from a woof base decided by the main developer
which at the moment will hopefully be Mick who prefers Spup

Quote:
Is all that crunching always really necessary?

For limited resource computers
yes it is.

Quote:
Chat? Why?

Chat will be built in allowing users direct access to the help provided on the IRC network

Quote:
Secure in what sense?

In any sense we can offer, initially just running the browser rather than root, as user spot,
as Fatdog does

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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 1722
Location: wales

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 02:27    Post subject:    

Glad to here chat's coming back lobster. Chat has been in puppy since puppy 1 and i was quite disappointed to see it removed in lucid. The irc chat is an excellent place to get live help and advice on your puppy problems. In my short time on there, i've seen hundreds of people get help and advice. I have also been helped there multiple times.

#puppylinux

on irc and freenode

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 04:56    Post subject:  

Cloud only works if you can access internet. Suppose you go by railway train some 4 hour trip or on a Bus same distance at much slower pace. You are stuck to that small space and have a small Netbook or laptop and the Mobile Internet are too expensive and there is no free wifi either on board.

Then you want a normal Puppy that works outside the cloud and you can read texts and books and write emails offline and send them up later when you have access and listen to music and see videoclips and so on. It it lacks such then not much of use?

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goolwa_pup


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 07:15    Post subject: Re: Puppy Cloud ?  

sszindian wrote:
If you have not taken a look at the ‘jolicloud’ program that is now running and expanding like wildfire, please do so, it gives a good example of where cloud computing is headed and how nice it performs. I believe Puppy would even be far superior because it can offer so many derivatives and options to the end-user.


For what its worth....extract the Jolicloud terms of service..

You retain your rights to any Content you submit, post or display on or through the Jolicloud Services. By uploading, submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Jolicloud Services, you grant Jolicloud a worldwide, perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods (now known or later developed).

just because your paranoid does not mean they are not after you
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10757
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 08:28    Post subject:  

Hi Micko

I would be willing to support this release, My thoughts on it are as such.
I would like to see it puppy based but slackware compatible. I tried talking to playdayz about it before with Upup, but he took the simple yet bloated approach and used Ubuntu packages.
Puppy never needed all those extra gnome deps until Upup went main stream. Seriously we are talking a great deal of bloat. I like a slim and trim puppy that gives you more functionality than bloat.
as long as the following libs are the same Smile GlibC,Gcc,Gtk,glib,pango,cairo,poppler,jpg,png
Then it should be almost 100% compatible and about 10% smaller
ttuuxxx

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 18:03    Post subject:  

Just a question: why is 5.3 going to be based on slackware when we already have ubuntu working? Is it just because the devs got board of ubuntu and think slackware would be fun to try? Is it because there is an option in woof? After this version is out, are we going to switch to T2? Let's just decide what is best for USERS and stick with it.
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SouthPaws

Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 19:29    Post subject: Base/Core
Subject description: Suggestion... (thoughts)
 

What about Debian...?
Is it not leading edge enough...?
Wouldn't it have greater compatibility with LP...?
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 22:11    Post subject:  

Quote:
why is 5.3 going to be based on slackware when we already have ubuntu working?

Quote:
What about Debian...?

Developers are users. Anyone wishing to develop Dpup, Upup or Lucid
are free to do so.

A developer is able to offer time, effort, expertise
and fun to others.

Those willing to facilitate, help, test. compile, support
etc. are part of the fun. Very Happy

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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr 2011, 23:15    Post subject: 5.3  

Puppy keeps making packages from packages that somebody made mostly from Dedian in the first place... Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to consider going 'DIRECT' with Debian?

Iguleder's Puppy Incidious 002 would be a good choice for starting a Puppy 5.3, it already has a good foundation in development and (in my view) is one of the fastest, one of the nicest, looking Puppy's to date and besides... didn't Iguleder already commit to helping on 5.3? one would certainly think that a plus !

Again... just my thoughts but for sure, we'll take whatever 5.3 offers!

>>>---Indian------>
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