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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
backup suggestions??
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 12:57    Post subject:  backup suggestions??  

I ust got an external usb powered harddrive and want to do some backup. (seagate expansion)

My main computer is set up like this:
sda1 : ntfs partition windows XP
sda2: ntfs partition for data (documents, music files, etc)
sda3: ext2 partition puppy savefiles and sfs files
sda4: linux swap

To use puppy I use a CDboot + savefile in sda3. Otherwise I just pull the CD before booting to load XP. (In other words, I don’t have grub or anything like that installed).

I’d like to do the following:
1) Right now my XP install is fresh and runs well. I’d like to have a copy of this that I could easily restore/replace when inevitably it gets crapified.

2) I’d like to periodically back up the data files on sda2. (automated would be nice, but maybe not if that means having something hogging resources in the background all the time)

3) from time to time I’d also like to drag data folders onto this harddrive either from this computer or another computer so that I can easily move large #s of files from machine to machine (those other machines run vista and windows 7)

A couple questions:
1) should I set up separate partitions on the external harddrive for these different functions?
2) is there something simple that you recommend to handle this?

On the forums I’ve seen mention of pudd, pbackup, and clonezilla but don’t really understand which would best suit my needs. Of perhaps there is something else?

Oh, one last question: I don’t quite know the vocabulary : whats the difference between “clone,” “image backup,” “copy” etc.

Thanks!
ps: I read through
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47099&start=30
But it got too technical and a bit heated for me to follow

looked at
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Backup
but this was mostly about backing up savefiles, which I can do manually easily enough
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 13:28    Post subject:  

PS: If I plug the drive in while using XP, it wants to install a "seagate dashboard." Useful? Or the sort of crap to be avoided?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 13:57    Post subject:  

There are several older threads on clever scripts that can do automatic back up of the save file. That is the only file that needs to be back up on.

That one only being at most 2GB or thereabout can be manually back upped very easily, no need for script.

You boot in using puppy pfix=ram and then make a copy of that file to a safe place. maybe a usb decicated to have the backup. Then when the crash happens you reuse that back up. Private things like pictures and movie clips and music and texts you can have on external media too unrelated to the puppy backup. Take at most 5 minutes to back up a big pupsavefile unless very slow usb.

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not an ideal solution though
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 16:05    Post subject:  

thank you Nooby for the response.

However, I have no problem backing up the savefile. I am more curious about a solution that can also take care of windows XP and my data outside my puppy savefile.
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PupGeek

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 16:14    Post subject:  

I would think you could try Norton Ghost or something like that to take a "snapshot" of your good working WinXP installation and back that up to the external hard drive or even a dvd as a ghost image. I have used those to restore computers at work. A restoration with one of them takes only ten minutes or so as well.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3186
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 16:51    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
The PBackup tool in utility may suit your needs....

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 16:53    Post subject:  

PupGeek wrote:
I would think you could try Norton Ghost or something like that to take a "snapshot" of your good working WinXP installation and back that up to the external hard drive or even a dvd as a ghost image. I have used those to restore computers at work. A restoration with one of them takes only ten minutes or so as well.

I use partimage in Puppy to take "snapshots" or images of working installations for backups. I've restored totally destroyed installations using partimage. Time depends on CPU and drives but it's compable to Norton Ghost.

The version of partimage I'm using now in Puppy can restore image backups of partitions I made six years ago with older partimage versions in Knoppix and Mepis.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=392317
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8906
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 17:18    Post subject:  

Or have a look here and here.
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cowboy


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 247
Location: North America; the Western Hemisphere; Yonder

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 22:56    Post subject: backup suggestions  

sfeeley,

For XP, I primarily backup my docs and settings. My photos, documents, scanned docs, music, etc, the things I've produced on the computer, are what really concern me. Don't care about program files, or really, about my old XP version. For backup I use the freeware version of Syncback that is available at the bottom of the page here. http://www.2brightsparks.com/downloads.html. Syncback has a great many very useful features, even in the freeware version, and is very reliable for scheduled backups. Most importantly, it backs up in native fashion - simply the files in their original extensions, it does not attempt to corral your data into something proprietary. Watch out for that.

If you really want to preserve your entire disk, in re-bootable form, you will need to mirror, or create an image of the entire drive. As a Windows user, many times, it's best to spend money to get the right software. Acronis True Image has a good reputation. http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

HOWEVER, backup is its own scene, and you need to get your head around the whole idea...the Tao of backup, if you will. A great place to start - the blogger and dev Tim Bray has an excellent bit on how he runs backups, and is worth reading. http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/31/Data-Protection


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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 10:58    Post subject:  

thankyou for all the suggestions.

I tried rcrsn51‘s suggestion:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=407381#407381

However, I got a warning about a “bad sector” on the disk. (see attached picture)

Does this refer to the source drive or the backup target drive? Using WindowsXp I ran checkdisk on the source drive. It ran and didn’t show any errors.

The warning says that the disc may remain stable or go bad fast. I suspect that it is generally fine? I’ve not had any errors or signs of trouble. Is there any way to tell?

The warning mentions a “--rescue option. “ What does this do? I don’t want to conduct open heart surgery if my computer only has a case of the sniffles.

It also says “disk is faulty can’t make a full backup”-- is there any way to check to see if this is true? (For example, is it possible that 99.999% copied successfully except for a bad sector that I can’t seem to detect/notice otherwise? Or is the entire backup borked?)

thanks.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8906
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 11:15    Post subject:  

I've never seen this message on my own machines, but I saw it once while attempting to backup a friend's Vista install. The message is coming from the ntfsclone program which is at the heart of the gnost script. I don't know if it's legitimate or a false positive. I think that it refers to the source partition and not the destination drive. From the man page:

Quote:
--rescue
Ignore disk read errors so disks having bad sectors, e.g. dying disks, can be rescued the most efficiently way, with minimal stress on them. Ntfsclone works at the lowest, sector level in this mode too thus more data can be rescued. The contents of the unreadable sectors are filled by character '?' and the beginning of such sectors are marked by "BadSectoR\0"


It should be possible to modify the gnost script to include the "--rescue" option, but I don't know how much faith you can have in the image.

Code:
ntfsclone  --rescue --save-image --output - /dev/$PART | gzip -c > $FILE


When you ran the Windows disk check, did you use the "quick" or "full" version?
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 12:53    Post subject:  

Quote:
When you ran the Windows disk check, did you use the "quick" or "full" version?


I think it was the full one-- I clicked the boxes for autorepair, etc. It required me to reboot to run the check, and took about 45 minutes or so.

It didn't come up with any errors. I ran the gnost again after doing all that and had the same result (warning regarding sector, etc)
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8906
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 13:23    Post subject:  

Then I don't know what to suggest. Ntfsclone is a pretty mature program so I don't know why it would find a bad sector if Windows cannot.

It would be interesting to know what happens if you do a raw backup using dd. Would it also stop on a bad sector?
Code:
dd if=/dev/sda1 | gzip -c > /mnt/sdb1/xpimage.gz
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 14:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
It would be interesting to know what happens if you do a raw backup using dd. Would it also stop on a bad sector?
Code:
dd if=/dev/sda1 | gzip -c > /mnt/sdb1/xpimage.gz


Ack! I tried this and all of a sudden I got a warning that my personal storage is getting full. And the terminal reported:
Code:
gzip:stdout:no space left on device.


um, how do I get my pupsave back?
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sfeeley

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 807

PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr 2011, 14:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
It would be interesting to know what happens if you do a raw backup using dd. Would it also stop on a bad sector?
Code:
dd if=/dev/sda1 | gzip -c > /mnt/sdb1/xpimage.gz


Ack! I tried this and all of a sudden I got a warning that my personal storage is getting full. And the terminal reported:
Code:
gzip:stdout:no space left on device.


um, how do I get my pupsave back?
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